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Bow / Draw Length set up

Camo_Man

New Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
6
I’m new to tree stand / saddle hunting. Used to Western ground / spot and stalk.

My bow is set up perfectly for ground shots.

This last season, in a tree, my shot on a deer was WAY higher than my aim point.

I have subsequently learned that this is normal when shooting down and when shooting uphill the opposite will occur, shots will be low.

Obvious solution is to compensate your aim point to compensate for either uphill or down hill shot.

My question is when in a tree, does anyone set their draw length to be shorter than when setting for flat ground shots? Does that provide any benefit knowing your not aiming the same way as a ground shot.?


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Everything should be the same. Draw your bow as you would from the ground, but then you need to bend at the waist to lower the sights to target. Not a real issue from the saddle since you could already be on an angle. But it you just drop your arm to aim, you are not in the same position as from the ground and will miss your target.
 
Just from personal learning curve from saddle positions and practicing from above and experience from the 3d circuit from solid ground.




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Interesting thread!!! Weird how different things work for some and not for others.
 
Really? any reason why you think this helps?
If you’re on the border of a draw length it is better to go down than up for your form and shooting. My theory is in a tree in the heat of the moment the slightly shorter draw length is a little more forgiving on my form.

Ultimately I just feel a little more comfortable with it.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all and all good points. I guess I need to get in a tree or a 3D course with hills/ mock tree stands and see what works best.


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I spend alot of time shooting, im not a competitive shooter but hold my own against alot of exceptional shooters in and around my area. Draw length and bow setups should remain the same as you have them on the ground in my honest opinion. Broadheads should hit where field points hit and if they don’t your bow is out of tune of there could be slight form issues you are not aware of. When shooting from an elevated position or the opposite direction it is common to alter your body which alters your shooting.

Shooting from any position be it on the ground, etc. is the same when it comes to form. It all stems from the waist making sure you don’t raise or lower your bow arm, pulling or drawing straight back, making sure your anchor is the same, totally relaxed shoulder and arm muscles, and also making sure your head is held in the same position.

The pivot point to shoot up and down hill is the bend at the waist while keeping everything above the waist as if you were shooting on the ground or flat level surface. This I think gets slightly overlooked or that a shooter/hunters subconscious takes over and alters the shot due to the rush of emotions flowing at the time.

I have seen and experienced this first hand and my remedy is to start at the beginning on flat ground, ensure your bow is in tune, test bh to field points at least out to 60yds if possible which will tell if the tune is right. So many don’t do this and i can tell you that it will make things alot more forgiving at the closer ranges when the next to perfect shot goes slightly off. After that gradual work your way through elevated positions shooting up hill and down hill but make sure back in the beginning you check your sight and ensure all 3 axis’s are on. Test those also at full draw to allow for any torque you may be putting on the bow because everyone does torque the bow its just some torque very little.

If it helps have some one video or take pictures of you shooting so you can assess your form and progress. I would also like to reiterate that im not an expert but through my journey in archery i have come to know some knowledgeable individuals who have transformed my shooting at a rate i did not think i was going to reach but it took alot of practice and everyday you should practice even if you think it is second nature.

Most average and above average shooters can hit the kill zone but you want to 12 ring that sucker everytime not 10 or 8 ring if you follow the 3D lingo. Best of luck and happy hunting and shooting!!
 
1/2" shorter too and know a lot of other stand hunters that do the same, not just from saddles.
 
I have never heard of the 1/2” shorter draw for tree stand hunting before.


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I have never heard of the 1/2” shorter draw for tree stand hunting before.


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Me either. And John E just said on SH podcast exactly what @MCDM just said. Don’t lower head bend at waist. I’m adding this as a focal point for practice this spring


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I spend alot of time shooting, im not a competitive shooter but hold my own against alot of exceptional shooters in and around my area. Draw length and bow setups should remain the same as you have them on the ground in my honest opinion. Broadheads should hit where field points hit and if they don’t your bow is out of tune of there could be slight form issues you are not aware of. When shooting from an elevated position or the opposite direction it is common to alter your body which alters your shooting.

Shooting from any position be it on the ground, etc. is the same when it comes to form. It all stems from the waist making sure you don’t raise or lower your bow arm, pulling or drawing straight back, making sure your anchor is the same, totally relaxed shoulder and arm muscles, and also making sure your head is held in the same position.

The pivot point to shoot up and down hill is the bend at the waist while keeping everything above the waist as if you were shooting on the ground or flat level surface. This I think gets slightly overlooked or that a shooter/hunters subconscious takes over and alters the shot due to the rush of emotions flowing at the time.

I have seen and experienced this first hand and my remedy is to start at the beginning on flat ground, ensure your bow is in tune, test bh to field points at least out to 60yds if possible which will tell if the tune is right. So many don’t do this and i can tell you that it will make things alot more forgiving at the closer ranges when the next to perfect shot goes slightly off. After that gradual work your way through elevated positions shooting up hill and down hill but make sure back in the beginning you check your sight and ensure all 3 axis’s are on. Test those also at full draw to allow for any torque you may be putting on the bow because everyone does torque the bow its just some torque very little.

If it helps have some one video or take pictures of you shooting so you can assess your form and progress. I would also like to reiterate that im not an expert but through my journey in archery i have come to know some knowledgeable individuals who have transformed my shooting at a rate i did not think i was going to reach but it took alot of practice and everyday you should practice even if you think it is second nature.

Most average and above average shooters can hit the kill zone but you want to 12 ring that sucker everytime not 10 or 8 ring if you follow the 3D lingo. Best of luck and happy hunting and shooting!!


Great thread. I have never saddle hunted, but have had spent many a day in a tree stand bow hunting. I do not spend much time in a tree practicing archery. I may be the exception to this. However I do have an outdoor range close to the house where I shoot down hill. ie bend at the waist. In my opinion one should never have to change anything except bend at the waist. Keeping the same form as on the ground is paramount.

Now I know some of the guys have changed their bridges from knots to splices & Petzel rings. As the knots were getting in the way the way of bow string.

Too each there own.
 
My bow is setup with a 29” draw which is a pretty long draw however i have seen guys with 30” and above. Shooting from a saddle you do have to be conscious of your bridge however this should not make a difference in regards to your draw length. If your adjusting your draw length because of this you are changing your shooting form all together or your draw was originally too long to begin with. I have seen draw lengths change slightly from bow manufacturer but not because of the platform one is shooting from.

If someone has to compensate high and low for the angle they are shooting from this is a bow tune issue primarily first with the sight axis and that would be the sights 3rd axis is off. Second it is quite common for shooters to raise and lower their arms when shooting up and down hill which then makes it a form issue.

@DaveT1963 has stated about saddle setups that sometimes things are modded to much and what needs to happen is going back to the basics. Shooting is the same thing and even the best shooters will say that they have to go back to the basics of shooting from time to time because issues like form creep in.

To each his own but to compensate on draw length because one is shooting out of a saddle or stand imho is cheating yourself out of being a better shooter, not maximizing your bows true potential, and lastly will cheat you on the range as you will always be compensating due to improper fit. Just my two cents
 
Here's some insight into sighting in from ground level and then shooting from elevations.

I was a the buyer/bow technician for Jay's Sporting Goods (largest sporting goods store in Michigan) back in the late 70's and learned why when you sight in from the ground, that you shoot high from elevations.

While at full draw there are 3 distances that create a shot triangle. The 3 triangle sides are formed by (1) the distance from your eye to your anchor point, (2) the distance from your anchor point to whatever pin you're using and (3) the distance from that pin back to your eye. When you shoot from the ground and parallel to it the distance from your eye to anchor will be longer than when your shooting from an elevation because from the ground your head is perfectly upright. When shooting from elevations most hunters tilt their heads downward towards the target before drawing their bow which shortens the eye to anchor point distance and thus totally changing the shot triangle. The shorter eye to anchor point distance changes the shot triangle resulting in the arrow going high.

There are two ways to rectify the elevation situation.

1. Since 95% of my hunts are from elevations I only practice and sight in from similar elevations to what I hunt. Practicing from a similar height to what you hunt from replicates consistent upper body alignment, shot triangle and form and your arrow will go exactly where you aim it.

2. If you sight in from the ground, when taking a shot from an elevation you should draw your bow while parallel to the ground and then bend at the waist (while maintaining an upright head position) to take you shot. The downside of this practice is that it creates extra movement at crunch time that could be picked.
 
I spend alot of time shooting, im not a competitive shooter but hold my own against alot of exceptional shooters in and around my area. Draw length and bow setups should remain the same as you have them on the ground in my honest opinion. Broadheads should hit where field points hit and if they don’t your bow is out of tune of there could be slight form issues you are not aware of. When shooting from an elevated position or the opposite direction it is common to alter your body which alters your shooting.

Shooting from any position be it on the ground, etc. is the same when it comes to form. It all stems from the waist making sure you don’t raise or lower your bow arm, pulling or drawing straight back, making sure your anchor is the same, totally relaxed shoulder and arm muscles, and also making sure your head is held in the same position.

The pivot point to shoot up and down hill is the bend at the waist while keeping everything above the waist as if you were shooting on the ground or flat level surface. This I think gets slightly overlooked or that a shooter/hunters subconscious takes over and alters the shot due to the rush of emotions flowing at the time.

I have seen and experienced this first hand and my remedy is to start at the beginning on flat ground, ensure your bow is in tune, test bh to field points at least out to 60yds if possible which will tell if the tune is right. So many don’t do this and i can tell you that it will make things alot more forgiving at the closer ranges when the next to perfect shot goes slightly off. After that gradual work your way through elevated positions shooting up hill and down hill but make sure back in the beginning you check your sight and ensure all 3 axis’s are on. Test those also at full draw to allow for any torque you may be putting on the bow because everyone does torque the bow its just some torque very little.

If it helps have some one video or take pictures of you shooting so you can assess your form and progress. I would also like to reiterate that im not an expert but through my journey in archery i have come to know some knowledgeable individuals who have transformed my shooting at a rate i did not think i was going to reach but it took alot of practice and everyday you should practice even if you think it is second nature.

Most average and above average shooters can hit the kill zone but you want to 12 ring that sucker everytime not 10 or 8 ring if you follow the 3D lingo. Best of luck and happy hunting and shooting!!

Great advice! I’ve followed what you prescribed. My bow is dialed in at 80 yards on flat ground. Hitting a paper plat at that range.

I’m thinking my problem was dropping my arm vs. leaning over at the hips.

However, the uphill downhill equation is a know physics fact. The British learned this the hard way during the Boer War in South Africa. The Brits had the high point on a hill over the Boers and the Brits were crack shots. They kept shooting over their heads when they were zeroed in on them. The Brits should have slaughtered the Boers. The Brits got their asses kicked from not knowing this trajectory drop issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Here's some insight into sighting in from ground level and then shooting from elevations.

I was a the buyer/bow technician for Jay's Sporting Goods (largest sporting goods store in Michigan) back in the late 70's and learned why when you sight in from the ground, that you shoot high from elevations.

While at full draw there are 3 distances that create a shot triangle. The 3 triangle sides are formed by (1) the distance from your eye to your anchor point, (2) the distance from your anchor point to whatever pin you're using and (3) the distance from that pin back to your eye. When you shoot from the ground and parallel to it the distance from your eye to anchor will be longer than when your shooting from an elevation because from the ground your head is perfectly upright. When shooting from elevations most hunters tilt their heads downward towards the target before drawing their bow which shortens the eye to anchor point distance and thus totally changing the shot triangle. The shorter eye to anchor point distance changes the shot triangle resulting in the arrow going high.

There are two ways to rectify the elevation situation.

1. Since 95% of my hunts are from elevations I only practice and sight in from similar elevations to what I hunt. Practicing from a similar height to what you hunt from replicates consistent upper body alignment, shot triangle and form and your arrow will go exactly where you aim it.

2. If you sight in from the ground, when taking a shot from an elevation you should draw your bow while parallel to the ground and then bend at the waist (while maintaining an upright head position) to take you shot. The downside of this practice is that it creates extra movement at crunch time that could be picked.

@John Eberhart hit the nail on the head. I will agree with point number 1 and that is only if you intend to hunt. As john stated in point 2 this was one of the common form issues i was trying to convey. Nice points john!!!
 
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