Morning Hunts

[essdub]

If a deer is bedding close to his food source in early season he will be tough to get in on day or night.... for those I would wait until prerut moves him more to interest in doe rather then filling his belly. That or wait until that food source dries up and hope he doesn't move bedding to a new location with new food source. Deer that bed immediately adjacent to their food are just tough.

You got that right. My problem on my property is that there's year round good food. Between my garden, small orchard, berry bushes, at least an acre of native blackberries, the round of oaks, persimmon, paw paw, hickory, beech, and all kinds of edible native vegetation, plus the 9 month gardening season. .. you're right about it being tough. It was easy as pie with a rifle, but I have mostly given that up (at least until near the end of season if I need meat in freezer). But I do love it, I just need to find some more hunting property. What little property I hunt is awesome as far as number of deer, but the ones I want are really hard to catch within bow range
So this year, I'm gonna try to use the creek more often and come in from upstream and hopefully that'll get me in undetected .
It's worked for me the few times I've tried it. Every time I make a new trail, the game starts using it, so I'm running out of options (other than sneaking through property I don't have permission to be on).
There was a hunting club on the other side of the creek which was heavily hunted. They lost their lease a year or two ago. Since then, I'm having more trouble because I'm no longer the"safe haven". Instead, the formerly heavily hunted (now noBody has permission there) property is now the safest place for deer to run to when spooked. So I will be choosing my hunts more carefully this year instead of hunting a few times per week.
Fortunately for me, I have two more local properties to hunt (although none are unrestricted access - usually have to drive quite a ways to get to them too so I haven't really hunted them much in last few years). Looks like this year is gonna be interesting for me. I still have a few out of state hunts I'm trying for , too, including my dad's place in the country outside of Charlotte. So hopefully I'll be able to put a season together in spite of the difficult year I'm having so far

 

[MCDM]

I prefer to setup 1-2 hours before daylight.... but I practice this all year and walk my routes in the early off season as I am scouting before daylight. The problem with night time entry, IMHO, is people never really practice it except hunting season. Being form the military, I guess I just like the tactical aspect of sneaking in before daylight.

This is what I am talking about!! This stuff has to be practiced, you have to plan your routes in and clear your path. It is exactly like still hunting/stalking. Another thing I do is I monitor the times the deer are coming through even at night. By not excluding the night time information you can really find opportune times to enter.

 

[brydan]

However, there is some evidence that I have read that suggest that deer have become conditioned to the normal hunting hours. More or less patterning hunters.

I don't doubt that a bit. I've witnessed some interesting deer patterning hunters behavior with regard to 4 wheelers on a lease I used to hunt. Not hard to imagine they'd do the same with hunters on foot.

 

[redsquirrel]

Ricky brought up something that I haven't seen you guys talking about. "The majority of bucks were taken between 10am and 2pm". What time of year were most of these bucks taken? I would guess it was during the rut.

In my experience for morning hunts in September and October, I want to be in my tree as early as I can get there. The majority of the bucks I see at this time of year in the morning are right after daylight.

Now once you get into late October, I will go into the tree at any time I can get there. During the rut I will occasionally sleep in for a morning to catch some rest and head into the stand at 9. In this case I am planning to get in the stand for that 10-2 window that Ricky mentioned, because I have seen just as many or more bucks during this window during the rut.

When I get to late season it depends on pressure and the weather. Pressure makes it harder to see the bucks at any time of the day. But as I get into late late season when the pressure starts to go down and the weather starts to get really cold I'll see bucks on their feet much later in the morning while they're trying to cram more food in.

 

[Maustypsu]

Ricky brought up something that I haven't seen you guys talking about. "The majority of bucks were taken between 10am and 2pm". What time of year were most of these bucks taken? I would guess it was during the rut.

This was Michigan which automatically makes me think of hunting pressure. Just like what was discussed earlier with hunters coming and going. These are the hours when all of the best bucks were taken in PA gun season where I hunted. People leaving for breakfast or lunch or making their way back to their evening stand.

At one hunt club I belonged to a guy would religiously hunt starting when the first morning hunter got back. And he would always kill his bucks then. Not scientific but if you hunt pressured areas, this is definitely a strategy worth considering.

 

[MCDM]

I will agree with both Maustypsu and Red. I think it all depends on the area, the weather, and the hunting pressure. That is why I tell guys just starting off not to worry if they did not see a deer while in the tree but be mindful and alert on the way back to the truck you may see one and get the shot. I will also say that there are a million strategies to hunt deer out there. I think that each strategy has its merit it is up to the hunter to know which one to employ to create the success. Early season: Sept- 2nd week of October I am out early in the morning 2-3 hours before light and afternoons by 2pm. 3rd week of October - 1 week of November I hunt 1-2 hours before light but really just find the doe areas and the scrapes and rub lines that really start to heat up. 2nd week of november till december I hunt all day any day and will get into stand anytime of the day. The rut is on at that point. December till January I hunt early morning through midday.

 

[suicyderider]

A few years ago I shot a 140”+ buck and was invited to an awards banquet put on by Commemorative Bucks of Michigan. Everyone had their bucks on display at the event. They asked us to fill out a card and place it by your buck with location the deer was taken, weapon used, date and time of day it was taken. What struck me was it seemed like the vast majority of the bucks were taken between 10:00AM and 2:00 PM. I don’t know if possibly those bucks had been bumped by hunters leaving his their hunting spot after a morning hunt or it they were taken during their normal rut activity. I just found that interesting……

sounds like rut movement times to me

 

[crb]

This is really a loaded question because there are so many factors that can influence deer movement. All the previous posts touch on some of the factors that come into play, but there are many habitat and tactical things to consider. Is there a predictable/somewhat consistent route that the deer take through your property i.e. Bedding -> Travel Corridors -> Staging Areas -> Destination Food? Understanding how the deer use the property will help you pattern their movements and make better tactical decisions. The weather, moon and human pressure will also be factors you'll want to keep your eye on throughout the season.

As a general rule I don't hunt mornings during the early bow season unless the conditions are perfect. I focus more on hunting staging areas (kill plots) during the evenings. If you do decide to hunt mornings during the early season make sure the conditions are right and you sit on the back side of an area where you know bucks are bedding with the wind in your face. Expect the buck to perform a J Hook (circle downwind) before entering his bedding area. You will want to get 22ft to 26ft up in the tree with winds under 10mph so you can bow over him when he circles behind his bedding area. You will want to get into your stand a minimum of 2 hours before daylight in this situation. Another option would be to setup on a waterhole on the way to their bedding area. Deer have to drink water after they eat to breakdown their food. Either way early season mornings can be very risky and you will want to harvest one of the bucks on your hit list your first morning in the stand. A good access trail (down to the dirt) along with extreme scent control will also help you in this situation. As pre-rut and rut approaches I like going in after day light since its easier to see and I can setup on a travel corridor between bedding areas in hope of catching a buck cruising.

If you are hunting public land the probability of other hunters bumping deer is very high. I guess you could setup later in the morning on a travel corridor and hunt that 10am to 2pm window hoping to catch a buck making his way back to his original bedding location after being bumped by other hunters. Like I said many things come into play when making tactical decisions. You may want to look into purchasing Bill Vale's book on hunting pressured deer. It's a great resource. Hope this helps!

 

[MCDM]

CRB good information there!! You are right to point out that you have to know how deer use the property. It is key to pattern deer. For example I acquired a peice of property last year which butted up against another large tract of town property (which does not allow hunting) and another property which a different landowner hunts during rifle season. I spent much time scouting it and setting up close to 15 trail cams in key locations. I found a had some nice bruisers ranging from 140-160+ class. My goal was to jump on them early but it did not happen due to injury. Needless to say this year I started logging my observations, times, dates, moon, temp, etc. I now have these guys patterned to a specific date. These bucks now are coming through literally every month on the 22nd-26th either early morning or right before shooting light ends. I know which routes they are taking and the direction. My season begins in 15 days but I will not hunt this particular area until the week after the opener because that is the pattern.

I generally hunt mornings because I work a 2nd shift gig so I have learned that I have to choose my spots carefully to take a mature one early on. Again I totally agree that there are many factors that influence deer movement and that the hunter is ultimately responsible to scout and continue in attempts to pattern these deer for the best possible chance of success. Routes that hunters take also have to be looked at and should be prepped well before the season starts.

 

[crb]

MCDM,

Great points and I hope you get one of those big bucks!

I'm always looking to learn something new or improve on what I'm already doing to stack the odds in my favor. Below are a few good videos that I found useful in the past.

LAND TYPES

SCENT CONTROL

ENTRY & EXIT

Charles

 

[MCDM]

Those are some good vids man thank you. I don't think when it comes to deer hunting or just hunting in general you can ever know everything or too much. I think there are basic universal behaviors for whitetails that some of us have mentioned in earlier posts, however since all of us come from different parts of the US and are areas which may be similar are still going to have different deer and different individual deer behaviors. I would say learn all you can apply it in small amounts and find what works for you. Learn your deer and your properties and success will come.

 

[bubba g]

MCDM,

Great points and I hope you get one of those big bucks!

I'm always looking to learn something new or improve on what I'm already doing to stack the odds in my favor. Below are a few good videos that I found useful in the past.

LAND TYPES

SCENT CONTROL

ENTRY & EXIT

Charles

Nice vids...

 

[kenn1320]

Not sure I agree with walking out thru the plot on your way out for evening hunt, the deer then smell a predator was recently in the large plot they are coming to for safe eating during the night. Plus as Tony knows and sets up property's, does bed for convieniance and therefore close to the food. Some will likely be bedded where they can see the field. Some of his theory's are interesting, others Im not so sure.

 

[crb]

It really depends on how your property is setup. I believe in the video he shows a farm road/logging trail that divides the food plots. This is the access you drive/walk on throughout the off season when working in and around your food plots. Your deer herd get to know farmer Ken and do not associate your scent with danger. So its a good thing to be out there during the off season and leaving your scent behind. Once the season starts you become Hunter Ken and this is where your scent control program comes into play. The goal here is to drastically reduce or eliminate your scent but if a deer catches a little bit of Farmer Ken he/she is not alarmed and will most likely continue on the same pattern they've been doing for months. If you did not have a road system like in the videos you could still walk through the food plot before the season a few times a week to condition the deer. Whether your accessing your stands from the outside or inside you want to be out there so the deer understand where your scent should be and should not be. I've used these techniques many times on local deer and they work. Does are home bodies and will not leave your property unless forced. If you have all the right ingredients on your property you will attract new bucks as the season progresses and they will not be used to your scent like your local deer herd was during the off season. The does from your local deer herd will still be around and should not be spooked though. They will have the attention of not only the local bucks but intruders cruising your property looking for a hot doe. This should help you distract these intruders but you will want to kill that big buck on your hit list the first or second time into that stand location because they are not as used to Farmer Ken. Hope this helps!

 

[kenn1320]

There could be some truth to the local deer getting used to your scent, several qdm guys have commented on that. I cant comprehend how deer think. lol Combine drivers tell me they almost hit deer as they nudge them along while picking, yet stop your car/truck to look at deer out in a field and they are running for cover. That blows my mind. You say they get used to the combine and learn its not a threat. Well what percentage of cars are shooting at these deer for them to fear all cars? YIKES.
As for Tonys video, those are not roads, but merely visual screens. This forces the buck to go check every field visually in Tonys mind, but likely the buck just walks inside the woods via his security cover on the down wind side and can scent check all the fields as well as the trails he crosses that the does used to enter the field. Tony mentions those visual screens could be corn/autumn olive, anything that visually screens the deers view of the other fields. It makes sense, but I have not implemented it since I dont have plots large enough to see the effectiveness. I do have a figure 8 plot that I blocked visual as well as foot travel in the pinch point, forcing deer around it closer to stand locations. I spent 2 days and big $$$ attending one of Tonys boot camps, I got the jist of his techniques. I personally wasnt impressed by his stand locations on his property, BUT he had what the neighbors didnt. His land had food and more importantly cover. We walked as a group on manicured deer trails and you couldnt hardly see people ahead or behind you as we made turns. It was thick, yet you looked up and open sky. Basically a few mature trees and clear cut regrowth is how I would describe it. I wont say much more about Tony or his boot camp, he has already tried(and failed) to sue others and I dont have the time/money to defend myself over something like that.

 

[crb]

I've never attended any of Tony's camps. I've read plenty of information about his frivolous lawsuits though which makes my skin crawl. I do think some of the things he talks about in his videos is helpful. Every property is unique and provides it's own set of challenges. This is what makes the game fun, don't you agree?

Deer are not able to think but their instincts are incredible and is why they appear to be very, very smart. The more pressure you put on a deer the more he/she has to rely on their instincts to stay alive. When you go through the woods (setting up stands, planting food plots, hinge cutting, etc.) during the off season you should make plenty of noise, which allows the deer to escape unharmed. This tells the deer that this particular bedding location is ok and they will reuse it again and again. If you sneak up on them it can have the opposite result and it may cause them to bed elsewhere or go nocturnal. A combine moving is ok, but stopping a vehicle/tractor/atv triggers them to flea to safety. I was just on the tractor the other day installing a food plot. As long as I was moving the deer just stood there looking at me and eating in the bean field. The minute I stopped they took off.

Hope this helps!

 

[Maustypsu]

When you go through the woods during the off season you should make plenty of noise, which allows the deer to escape unharmed.

I've given this some thought in the past. If they see or hear you at a distance I feel like it would re-enforce they are bedding in a safe area. In theory it makes sense on that level.
but it also will signal pressure to other deer that wouldn't have known you were present. I wasn't sure where the tradeoff would net out... so I never tried it.