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2017 elk trip

So, in an area with plenty of water, and with mixed cover/open.... what do you experienced guys look for? We have two options when it comes to "off the beaten path.... relatively flat, with grass covered valleys and tree covered ridges... or solid trees on heavily varied elevations...

Looking at this
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Vs this...
cef47d4699cad7f1cb4133521772e4eb.png



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The elk will be where the Hunters aren't. They can be found in both terrain examples. Pressure is the biggest factor.

I am far from an expert, but if I were going to Colorado this season, I'd try to hunt as high as possible, be as light as possible, and cover as much ground as possible.
 
Things I am thinking of getting

Treking poles (are they really worth the effort to carry in?).

I haven't read through all the responses, but it looks like you've received some good feedback. I don't know anything about Montana, but as a fellow flat lander that OTC hunted 4 / 5 weekends of the 2016 CO elk archery season I can tell you trekking poles are 100% worth the weight. 4x4 for the human body and dual purpose as shelter poles if you need a contingency to your hammock setup.

If you haven't already, start scouring Rokslide forum as well as Eastman's. Some good podcasts out there too.
 
I've went to Colorado a total of one time so my opinion isn't that valid but I did learn a lot in a week. One have multiple backup plans not only different trail heads but several places you can check out from where you are hunting. It really stinks to hike in 8 miles only to have to hike out another 8 miles to your backup location. The 8 miles in was plan b but it would have been really nice to have a plan c that was readily accessible from the plan b location. But as it was it was either hike out or even further away from the trail head.
I used a sawyer filter for my water and couldn't have been happier. I also used the flavored drink drops that contain caffeine since I hadn't tapered off of caffeine like I wanted to. I would suggest some kind of flavoring since it makes it easier to drink enough water. I didn't use the powdered energy drink mixes but they will probably help a lot with getting enough calories. Weight is a big issue but if you spike camp your physical conditioning is going to be more important than a pound or two of extra weight. As you shop for your gear you will find some items have a lot more bang for your buck than others. Trekking poles are great. They make you look old and feeble but they can save your back. I also found many uses for mine like steadying a rifle or binoculars. I used them to construct a close line near my fire for drying clothes. They are also nece for crossing creeks on logs or boulders. The ones I used came from Walmart and were bent up enough they went in the trash before the flight back. I would probably use the same ones again.
A couple things about the wilderness areas. Depending on where you are you may need a bear proof container for food storage. Most of the wilderness areas are a 3-5 mile hike in before you can even start hunting. So when you get to the wilderness areas you have hiked several hours just to get where everyone else is going. If you are near the Yellowstone area reports on elk herds aren't that good. There are still elk there. The trip itself will be rewarding but it isn't the slam dunk rifle rut it was 30 years ago. Basically even though they don't get a lot of human hunting pressure they get hunted 12 months a year.
You didn't say where you were but a satellite phone made my wife feel better than a locator. They do have the one that is used in conjunction with a smart phone to send text so that may be worth looking into also.
Also weather forecast are misleading. Everyone told me to expect 2-3 inches of snow at the most. I hiked out on day 3 in knee deep snow. The weather forecast showed like 10 percent chance of rain but all of the nearby towns that had forecast were also 4-5000 feet lower in elevation. So the 10 percent chance of rain turned into a 12 hr snowstorm. The lows in the mid 30s were in the low teens.
Back to your food you will most likely pack it asking yourself how your going to live off that little bit of food for a week and wind up carrying a lot back out. I used a jet boil and only cooked breakfast and supper. I was by myself so it held enough water to make oatmeal and a warm drink.
I did meet some nice young guys from Fort Carson about three miles up the trail. They had packed in three big dome tents a 12 pack of Dr Pepper a half gallon of whiskey along with everything else. They also carried their rifles in drag bags that probably weighed 5lbs each. They decided the first night to drink all the drinks and whiskey so they didn't have to carry it any farther. They still had about 80 lb packs. I ate my lunch talking to them as they started to break camp. I thought I was in pretty good shape and they still passed me on the trail about a mile later. Conditioning counts for a lot. Living at 200 foot in elevation and hunting at 12000 feet doesn't help much either. Good luck
 
Sorry about all the rambling. I typed it from my phone and couldn't really see everything. Another thing that popped into my mind was I saved the batteries in my gps on the way in since the trail was so beat out I could follow it in the dark without a light. After a foot is snow the trail was a faint depression to non existent. Wasn't really a bad thing with the exception of trying to find switchbacks on the steeper areas.
 
The elk will be where the Hunters aren't. They can be found in both terrain examples. Pressure is the biggest factor.

I am far from an expert, but if I were going to Colorado this season, I'd try to hunt as high as possible, be as light as possible, and cover as much ground as possible.
X2 on finding where the hunters aren't. Last time we went, the big, obvious, high elevation bowl with a pack trail leading to it was full of hunters. On a map it looked great, but the elk were pushed out. We spent most of our time on the side of the mountain actually, between two pack trails, and at least someone in our group saw elk every day. They say the best bet is an area with no pack trail or road. In some areas that's hard to come by.

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Here's a way to see if the area you're going to was affected by wildfires or controlled burns in the last year. It would be good if you could go back a few years since areas that burned are supposed to be great in 3-5 years.
https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/state/27/
 
ok, so i have been following this and there is an amazing amount of info from you guys. I have been doing some shopping and also just figuring out what stuff weighs. I put together my first stab at the backpack, and assuming 15 lbs for food, i was at almost 70# wow that added up fast.

some of it is definitely my own fault. my pack a TZ5000 weighs 8 lbs by itself, and I added a TZ1250 for a day pack at another 3#. My rifle was 9#. My handgun loaded was another 3#. It doesn't take much after that with batteries, cook gear and sleep gear to add up.

I am definetely going to look into thos meindel boots bowhunter 15 suggests. i am in need of a new pair anyways. My irish setters are almost 15 years old, very heavy and have seen a lot of miles.

I have some questions on clothing. How many extra pieces do you take. ie how many pairs of socks for 6-7 days? How many underwear. I have had a serious chaffing incident in the past so i like to bring fresh drawers... That and a container of body glide. I can't endorse that stuff enough....

here is my clothes list before pairing it down

Packed....
socks 4 pair
Mothwing boxers 4 pair
Sitka Ascent Pants
Sitka Ascent Jacket
Sitka med weight core long sleave top
sitka light weight core top x 2
Sitka Kelvin jacket
Sitka Kelvin pants
British mil surplus Rain jacket and pants
silk weight top and bottom for sleeping
Sitka Fanatic Gloves
Sitka Ball cap
Sitka Beanie
.
Wear in
Sitka Mountain pants
Sitka lightweight core top
Sitka ascent jacket
Mothwing boxers
Socks
Boots

Other than the obvious that i spent too much on clothing, do you guys have any comments or advise on how much clothing to bring. I tried to make sure that i had a spare for each piece i wore in case something happened. and I added the kelvin stuff just in case it gets really cold in the morning or evening.

On your guys advice, I decided to get a sawyer squeeze filter and add an extra empty bottle to my pack on top of the hydration bladder. I haven't bought it yet, but i will make sure to get and bring the flush kit.

@bowhunter15 talked about a scouting service that he got some maps from. I contacted 3 of them.

I emailed Bearpaw, scout4u.com and headinwest.net to get some info. headin west was recommended by the people on elknut forum but that guy is expensive ($2000).

Have any of you dealt with any of these companies. I got a call back from the guy at bearpaw and liked what he had to say but talk is cheap. As it turns out, he is from my home town area, so that was a plus.

It looks like hiking poles are a popular suggestion. Do any of you have suggestions on which ones to buy or how to choose them?self

for you hammock guys, here is my sleeping gear

Warbonnet blackbird
hammock gear incubator 0 degree UQ
Enlightened Equipment revelation 10 degree TQ
Super Fly with pole kit
jacks r better tarp lines
generic titanium stakes

I was really suprised how this added up as well. All of a sudden I was at 7.5#. I thought the hammock and quilt route was going to be lighter, but maybe it isn't? Either way, i like the idea of not sleeping on the ground.

for portable electronics and optics, I have

Garmin Montana 600 GPS
Vortex Ranger 1000
Vortex Talon 10x42 binocs
Rented Satelite phone.
Headlamps

I see that vortex is coming out with the fury binocular/rangefinder combo. I absolutely will be getting that. hopefully before this trip but maybe after. it looks kind of expensive. I have seen preorder sites selling it for 1050, but perhaps my military buddies can get me one cheaper.

for cooking, I have

MSR pocket rocket
MSR titan pot
orikaso folding plate, bowl, cup

I figure the party can share the stove and pot as long as we have enough fuel. I thought also about getting an evernew or similar fry pan. Perhaps we can shoot some small game or even go all meateater on the trip and cook up some fresh elk. If we go that route, can any of you suggest a difuser? i have seen how they make it easier to cook in the fry pan, but there are a hundred of them out there.

In another thread there are some recipes for pemican that my wife has agreed to help me make. it actually took longer to convince her to give up some of her baking huckleberries but that is another story.

I have to say, I am really excited for this idea, and i can't thank you guys enough for the help. I've done a lot of elk hunting in the past, but always from a road based camp. this back pack trip is something new for me.

i've been rambling for a while now, and I am sure i will have more questions. but for now......
 
My personal philosophy for clothing is to have enough confidence in a garment not to bring a spare. I think my total number of clothing items is about 1/2 of yours. If I bring an item of clothing I expect the chance to need it, but will leave it in he truck if is doesn't serve a different purpose than another piece of gear I'm already packing. For example, I'm not ultra familiar with the Sitka line, but I wouldn't be bringing both the ascent and the mountain pants. I'd choose one based on the weather you expect when heading out. It could be a game time decision. Last year I only brought a pair of soft shell pants, a merino base layer, and that was it for legs. I wish I'd have brought gaiters too, which is something I've added for this year. For me, moving around in elk country, my legs don't get cold much. Even for rifle in October I think the only thing I added was more base layers for the legs. If you plan on glassing a ton, it's a different story. The terrain we went to was more conducive to blind calling and run-and-gun.

I didn't bring a spotting scope, just binos. I just bought trekking poles from Easton and don't have any feedback on them yet. Make sure to try out the bino/rangefinder combo before buying. I played around with a Bushnell one at cabelas and decided I'd be better off buying the two items separately. Some of the dedicated range finders are really fast now. If you're eating out of freeze dried food containers, make sure to get a long folding spoon. The non-folding spoons are too short and you have to dig your hand inside.

I generally pack 2 pairs of socks and boxers and wear one (all merino). The key thing for me is having just enough to always have a dry pair ready to go.

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I agree... that does seem like a lot of clothes. I definitely get the fresh drawers and socks, but you could probably still trim that down a bit. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal suck when it's on your back and you're trudging uphill.

One thing you might consider is bringing your two lightweight core tops and leaving the medium one at home... if you get cold, you could always put both of them on. Layering is always a good option, and I'd assume that your hunting partners aren't going to rate you on how good your clothes smell.

I do definitely support one "walk-in, walk-out" set of clothes, but I'm a pretty heavy sweater even in the winter... if you're not, you might could go lighter still.

Another thing you may consider is (again) trying your gear out at home. Give it the torture test when you're still able to go inside if it doesn't work. If "medium" will get you through January in MN (not counting this current stretch we're having), it should get you through just fine in Montana in October.

For trekking/hiking poles, I got these: http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/trekking-poles/trail-trekking-pole-BD1121540000ALL1.html. I've only taken them out a couple of times, but they performed really well (one of these "adventures" was hauling a pulk up a 45 degree slope). I would have thought that the flicklocks would have popped open, but nope... not once. They're very adjustable, pack down to almost nothing and can be used to prop one side of your tarp up if it's nice (check out "porch mode"... waking up to an amazing view from your hammock is flippin' amazing!).

I was really suprised how this added up as well. All of a sudden I was at 7.5#. I thought the hammock and quilt route was going to be lighter, but maybe it isn't? Either way, i like the idea of not sleeping on the ground.

It depends on the season... winter camping is not as light as summer camping, because your insulation requirements are different. But if you weigh up a tent, poles, stakes, ground pad (or two) and a zero degree bag, I'm betting your hammock will still be lighter. But even if it weighed more (up to a fairly reasonable point), I'd still take that over a tent. You can't put a value on a good night's sleep, much less consecutive nights' sleep. It usually takes me one night to get used to it again, and the next night and any thereafter, I'm sleeping like a 6-foot tall baby. And waking up and not being sore from pressure points on the ground? Absolutely priceless.
 
Instead of all new socks each day, think about packing only two pairs, but bringing along several silk socks for a double layer. Back when I hiked more (80-120 mile trips) we only ever packed 2 pairs of wool socks. The rest were super thin silk. This also had a double function of reducing/eliminating blisters. The friction moves from skin/wool to silk/wool. Also, silk socks weigh much less, and pack much tighter than wool.


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Agree with others on the clothes. I'd also say ditch the day pack and think real hard about your daily strategy, I.e. Roaming each day with a full kit vs deep hike in to spike camp with more of a daily hub and spoke. 70lbs with the later strategy wouldn't be as bad...until you find out your option A spot ain't what it was cracked up to be and you find yourself schlepping all that chit back to the truck for plan "B".

As a recovering gear whore I recently found myself focusing too much on the "stuff" and too little on the "hunt". Spent the last few days hunting with less than half what I brought day to day. It was still comforting to know i had it back at the truck a few hours away if something got sideways. And it sure was nice not having all that crap when I glassed up something I wanted to go see way over Yonder.


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I don't think the hammock set up is necessary meant to be lighter, it is meant to provide more comfort than sleeping on the ground.
 
ok, so i have been following this and there is an amazing amount of info from you guys. I have been doing some shopping and also just figuring out what stuff weighs. I put together my first stab at the backpack, and assuming 15 lbs for food, i was at almost 70# wow that added up fast.

some of it is definitely my own fault. my pack a TZ5000 weighs 8 lbs by itself, and I added a TZ1250 for a day pack at another 3#. My rifle was 9#. My handgun loaded was another 3#. It doesn't take much after that with batteries, cook gear and sleep gear to add up.

I am definetely going to look into thos meindel boots bowhunter 15 suggests. i am in need of a new pair anyways. My irish setters are almost 15 years old, very heavy and have seen a lot of miles.

I have some questions on clothing. How many extra pieces do you take. ie how many pairs of socks for 6-7 days? How many underwear. I have had a serious chaffing incident in the past so i like to bring fresh drawers... That and a container of body glide. I can't endorse that stuff enough....

here is my clothes list before pairing it down

Packed....
socks 4 pair
Mothwing boxers 4 pair
Sitka Ascent Pants
Sitka Ascent Jacket
Sitka med weight core long sleave top
sitka light weight core top x 2
Sitka Kelvin jacket
Sitka Kelvin pants
British mil surplus Rain jacket and pants
silk weight top and bottom for sleeping
Sitka Fanatic Gloves
Sitka Ball cap
Sitka Beanie
.
Wear in
Sitka Mountain pants
Sitka lightweight core top
Sitka ascent jacket
Mothwing boxers
Socks
Boots

Other than the obvious that i spent too much on clothing, do you guys have any comments or advise on how much clothing to bring. I tried to make sure that i had a spare for each piece i wore in case something happened. and I added the kelvin stuff just in case it gets really cold in the morning or evening.

On your guys advice, I decided to get a sawyer squeeze filter and add an extra empty bottle to my pack on top of the hydration bladder. I haven't bought it yet, but i will make sure to get and bring the flush kit.

@bowhunter15 talked about a scouting service that he got some maps from. I contacted 3 of them.

I emailed Bearpaw, scout4u.com and headinwest.net to get some info. headin west was recommended by the people on elknut forum but that guy is expensive ($2000).

Have any of you dealt with any of these companies. I got a call back from the guy at bearpaw and liked what he had to say but talk is cheap. As it turns out, he is from my home town area, so that was a plus.

It looks like hiking poles are a popular suggestion. Do any of you have suggestions on which ones to buy or how to choose them?self

for you hammock guys, here is my sleeping gear

Warbonnet blackbird
hammock gear incubator 0 degree UQ
Enlightened Equipment revelation 10 degree TQ
Super Fly with pole kit
jacks r better tarp lines
generic titanium stakes

I was really suprised how this added up as well. All of a sudden I was at 7.5#. I thought the hammock and quilt route was going to be lighter, but maybe it isn't? Either way, i like the idea of not sleeping on the ground.

for portable electronics and optics, I have

Garmin Montana 600 GPS
Vortex Ranger 1000
Vortex Talon 10x42 binocs
Rented Satelite phone.
Headlamps

I see that vortex is coming out with the fury binocular/rangefinder combo. I absolutely will be getting that. hopefully before this trip but maybe after. it looks kind of expensive. I have seen preorder sites selling it for 1050, but perhaps my military buddies can get me one cheaper.

for cooking, I have

MSR pocket rocket
MSR titan pot
orikaso folding plate, bowl, cup

I figure the party can share the stove and pot as long as we have enough fuel. I thought also about getting an evernew or similar fry pan. Perhaps we can shoot some small game or even go all meateater on the trip and cook up some fresh elk. If we go that route, can any of you suggest a difuser? i have seen how they make it easier to cook in the fry pan, but there are a hundred of them out there.

In another thread there are some recipes for pemican that my wife has agreed to help me make. it actually took longer to convince her to give up some of her baking huckleberries but that is another story.

I have to say, I am really excited for this idea, and i can't thank you guys enough for the help. I've done a lot of elk hunting in the past, but always from a road based camp. this back pack trip is something new for me.

i've been rambling for a while now, and I am sure i will have more questions. but for now......

Your going in sept correct ? You have way too much clothing imo.

First I'd get rid of
2 pairs of socks.
2 pairs of undies
Both kelvin jacket and pants.
Gloves
Mountain pants.
Ascent jacket you only need 1

Wear the ascent pants or something similar. You don't need a 2nd pair of pants.

I did 10 days with much less clothing and was fine. The key is to have quality clothing and clean up your privates with baby wipes at the end of the day. Powder helps too.
 
Here is a video I did of my mid September Utah mule deer bag. It might give you an idea as to what to look into, or stay away from.
My best advise, don't be afraid to buy used gear, TEST IT OUT long before you take it up the mountain, don't take multiple of the same type of clothing,just make sure you can layer. Any spares you take can be left in the truck at the trail head, if you really need it you can hike back for it, such as fuel canisters, bow repair(something I didn't do)

I am already working on cutting weight and buying used gear to replace gear for next year. Its the best time to be picking up gear, but do your research.


Thanks,
Boswell
 
@Erniepower - My comments are in blue.

I put together my first stab at the backpack, and assuming 15 lbs for food, i was at almost 70# -
You need to get on some backpacking forums and start researching ultralight equipment. Time is on your side - so that's a good thing. If you plan to carry the pack on your back for your entire hunt, lightening up is a necessity. You'll end up subconsciously talking yourself out of hunting places or using certain tactics based on your pack. What helped me a lot, was setting a goal (mine was 50lb) and then formulating a plan to get there. First, get on LighterPack.com and enter all your weights in there. That's the best way to do it.

Remember, chase ounces and the pounds will follow.


My pack a TZ5000 weighs 8 lbs by itself, and I added a TZ1250 for a day pack at another 3#.
My pack and day pack (I used the same pack) was 4.5 lbs. My rifle was 9#. My handgun loaded was another 3#. I wouldn't take a handgun. Statistically, you won't use it. You have a better chance of dying on the plane ride to Montana, than using a handgun to defend yourself. It doesn't take much after that with batteries, cook gear and sleep gear to add up. In this paragraph I saved you nearly 10 lbs.

I have some questions on clothing. How many extra pieces do you take.
Don't take any extra. NONE. Take only what you will DEFINITELY use. how many pairs of socks for 6-7 days? 1 Worn, 1 drying at camp. You may consider a 3rd pair for a mid-day change, but 3 is the MAX. How many underwear 2 Pairs. 1 Worn, 1 drying at camp. I have had a serious chaffing incident in the past so i like to bring fresh drawers. Only wear Merino Wool Socks and ExOfficio Boxers. That and a container of body glide. Body Glide is good, but don't take the whole bottle. Put just enough for a few applications inside a plastic bag or a smaller container. Chase those ounces...

here is my clothes list before pairing it down

socks 4 pair
reduce by at LEAST 2
Mothwing boxers 4 pair reduce by 3
Sitka Ascent Pants Good
Sitka Ascent Jacket Good
Sitka med weight core long sleave top Good
sitka light weight core top x 2 Leave at home
Sitka Kelvin jacket Leave at home
Sitka Kelvin pants Leave at home
British mil surplus Rain jacket and pants Mil-surplus is usually super heavy. You may be able to save a lot of weight here.
silk weight top and bottom for sleeping Good (Can also be an additional layer if temps get cold)
Sitka Fanatic Gloves I would probably leave the gloves at home, however these look pretty light (1.6 oz?) and could come in handy for long glassing sessions.
Sitka Ball cap Good
Sitka Beanie Good
.
Wear in
Sitka Mountain pants
Are these the Ascent Pants from above?
Sitka lightweight core top Good, but you only need 1 I think. Is this the same as above?
Sitka ascent jacket Too hot to hike in. Leave at home. Is this the same Ascent Jacket from Above?
Mothwing boxers Check out ExOfficio
Socks Good
Boots Good

I brought a separate hike in/hike out set of clothes. I did this from a scent control perspective. This was a mistake. Hike in your Sitka Ascent Pants and a lightweight Long Sleeve T (mid or light weight core). Wear these everyday and play the wind. You're going to be sweaty the entire time.


Other than the obvious that i spent too much on clothing, do you guys have any comments or advise on how much clothing to bring. I tried to make sure that i had a spare for each piece i wore in case something happened. and I added the kelvin stuff just in case it gets really cold in the morning or evening.
It almost certainly won't get really cold in mornings or evenings. Taking this should be a last minute call based on the weather forecast, but I've hunted in Montana in September and I definitely didn't need insulating layers. I wouldn't take any extras. Only take what you will absolutely use. The "emergency" switch in our brains is based on fear of the unknown. You really don't need it.

On your guys advice, I decided to get a sawyer squeeze filter and add an extra empty bottle to my pack on top of the hydration bladder. I haven't bought it yet, but i will make sure to get and bring the flush kit.
Yes this is good. Get the Sawyer mini - that's what I use.

It looks like hiking poles are a popular suggestion. Do any of you have suggestions on which ones to buy or how to choose them?
YES bring hiking poles. Absolutely. I'd spend about $60-$80 on a pair. Black Diamond is a good brand. I'd buy them used from a forum somewhere.

for you hammock guys, here is my sleeping gear

Warbonnet blackbird
hammock gear incubator 0 degree UQ
Probably overkill, but if that's what you have, then use it.
Enlightened Equipment revelation 10 degree TQ Save as above.
Super Fly with pole kit Pole kits are SUPER NICE for car camping. I wouldn't carry them on my back though. Look up the hiking pole mod on Hammock forums.
jacks r better tarp lines
generic titanium stakes

I was really suprised how this added up as well. All of a sudden I was at 7.5#. I thought the hammock and quilt route was going to be lighter, but maybe it isn't? Either way, i like the idea of not sleeping on the ground. I
t's not really lighter. But your back, hips and knees will thank you. Waaaaay more comfortable.

for portable electronics and optics, I have

Garmin Montana 600 GPS
Vortex Ranger 1000
Vortex Talon 10x42 binocs
Rented Satelite phone.
Headlamps
Those are probably all necessary. Just bring 1 headlamp. No spare batteries either. Put new ones in before you leave the house.

MSR pocket rocket
MSR titan pot
orikaso folding plate, bowl, cup
Get rid of the plate and bowl. Only bring foods that can be eaten out of their packaging or with your hands. I like Pack It Gourmet meals. Way better than Mountain House.

I figure the party can share the stove and pot as long as we have enough fuel. I thought also about getting an evernew or similar fry pan. Perhaps we can shoot some small game or even go all meateater on the trip and cook up some fresh elk. If we go that route, can any of you suggest a difuser? i have seen how they make it easier to cook in the fry pan, but there are a hundred of them out there.
This is highly unlikely. I planned to do that as well. But I don't think anyone ever does it. I use an alcohol stove or my JetBoil Sol kit.

You need to really think about what is really NECESSARY. There isn't much. At the end of my hunt I went through all my gear and made a list of what I didn't use. I was able to cut out a couple more pounds from an already light setup.

Remember, chase ounces and the pounds will follow.
 
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