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Can you build a 1.3 pound stick

EricS said:
I think you guys are insane and I’m loving this thread. I hope y’all get it figured out. I did run some numbers through a calculator. I’m not sure what everyone has for step length. With a 5 inch step with 300 lbs out on the end of it you will be putting over 1300 lbs of force against your rivet minus whatever friction you get from the metal to metal contact and a little more for loss of leverage because of the 90 degree turn between the fulcrum and the rivet.
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I never though of doing the math figuring the bolt being the fulcrum and the rivet taking that much stress. Thank you for the insight. But don’t think you can apply it that way because your foot is wide around 4 In so your distributing your weight across the whole length of the 4 in step.


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20ftup said:
No we used lone wolf bolts to bolt the step and standoff like bh15 and imthere steps. Then We just added a pop rivet to the step to keep it from rotating eliminating the need to slot the back of the step.


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Now I fully understand... and think that will likely work.
 
20ftup said:
I never though of doing the math figuring the bolt being the fulcrum and the rivet taking that much stress. Thank you for the insight. But don’t think you can apply it that way because your foot is wide around 4 In so your distributing your weight across the whole length of the 4 in step.


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:You sound smarter than this farmer too.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
:You sound smarter than this farmer too.
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Believe me I’m am not an engineer by any mean. So I take everyone’s opinion into consideration that why kong and I are testing everything independently so if something does break or show sign of failure we can pinpoint the issue.


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Not an engineer. I am excellent at tearing stuff up and overbuild everything. That’s why I haven’t really gotten too involved with this thread. I would either have the backs milled like @ImThere or bolt everything up and have it tig welded.
 
I can't weld aluminium - just steel, but I have a friend who does. Maybe that is an additional thing to be done. It is easier to get a bit of welding done than to get some machining done.
 
I art that smart. Just googled leverage calculator. It may work for you just like you have it.
 
I think welding will be where its at. I can weld aluminum. I have the setup close...just missing the most important part, time.
We got wipe out this weekend (south of Boston), tough storm for up here, worst I have seen it.
I did manage a little work on them today.
Love this thread!
 
sdonx said:
I think welding will be where its at. I can weld aluminum. I have the setup close...just missing the most important part, time.
We got wipe out this weekend (south of Boston), tough storm for up here, worst I have seen it.
I did manage a little work on them today.
Love this thread!
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Are using a tig welder. I have a mig and stick welder. I have never tried aluminium. I just figured I would suck at it - an extra hole in every stick.
 
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Welding is in no doubt stronger. But not everyone can weld or knows someone that can weld aluminum. The more I think about it the leverage calculator is really inaccurate for this because there are just to many variables. Rip mod stretch and give. I did see some flex at the lone wolf standoff but those are tried and true. Also there was some flex in the post of the stick. All of those reduce the amount of force being applied to the step


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I have access to an aluminum mig welder but wouldn’t try to weld 1/16 with it. I have someone that would tig weld a set for me but I would go ahead and get a set put together and get them all welded at one time.
 
20ftup said:
Welding is in no doubt stronger. But not everyone can weld or knows someone that can weld aluminum. The more I think about it the leverage calculator is really inaccurate for this because there are just to many variables. Rip mod stretch and give. I did see some flex at the lone wolf standoff but those are tried and true. Also there was some flex in the post of the stick. All of those reduce the amount of force being applied to the step


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I found flex in my sticks but it really did not seem too serious. I don't think holes in the stick matter too much as long as you do not get too carried away.
The machined steps don't move and I expect welded steps might be better yet. Would the heat from welding reduce the strength of the 1/16 inch tube.
 
I can mig and tig. I was weaned on steel and self-learned aluminum to build two different tuna towers on DIY boats...they each came out great migged one and tigged the other.
If I can do correctly ...been years since I did tig, but I have the set up.
Any way I don't think we would lose any loss of strength on the 1/16, of course assuming a great weld. Great thing about welding is I can add material as I see fit to add strength.
On the holes in the tubing...Isnt the bottom step more like an aider than something that has to be structurally secure.
Its an aider that can't kick out.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
I found flex in my sticks but it really did not seem too serious. I don't think holes in the stick matter too much as long as you do not get too carried away.
The machined steps don't move and I expect welded steps might be better yet. Would the heat from welding reduce the strength of the 1/16 inch tube.
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Welding always has the potential to weaken metal. It’s a fine line between getting adequate penetration and getting too hot on 1/16 aluminum. If I was looking for someone to do the welding I would look for someone that repaired aluminum boats or built window frames for a glass company instead of someone that worked at a machine shop.
I applaud you guys and will continue to watch this thread. Like I said if I built them they would end up weighing 3lbs each. That’s why I bought mine.
I’m not saying the rivet will shear. Putting all of the weight on the edge of the step isn’t what y’all plan on doing. I just wanted to make sure you knew the potential energy to shear it was there.
 
I expect most of the heavy sticks will stand more abuse than these. When I jump up and down on my sticks force is increased and I have broke aluminium bolts once and a small cam cleat.
I expect stick failure will give some warning and I will always be tied in. Even commercial sticks fail ,bolts pull out , We steps flip up sticks kick out, aiders kick out, bolts slip out.
A linemans belt is a necessity.

As my sticks sit the weak point is the bolt hole in 1/16 tube
The tube could potentially bend too but I expect that type of failure would not result in a fall


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Ontariofarmer said:
I expect most of the heavy sticks will stand more abuse than these. When I jump up and down on my sticks force is increased and I have broke aluminium bolts once and a small cam cleat.
I expect stick failure will give some warning and I will always be tied in. Even commercial sticks fail ,bolts pull out , We steps flip up sticks kick out, aiders kick out, bolts slip out.
A linemans belt is a necessity.

As my sticks sit the weak point is the bolt hole in 1/16 tube
The tube could potentially bend too but I expect that type of failure would not result in a fall


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I think there is weight that can still be removed from the step and standoffs. If I drilled holes in the tubing to remove weight it would be below the versa button. I could see myself bending the tubing above the versa button by being too far away from the tree trying to get a big step in and pulling away from the tree by the top step instead of down on it. You could make it even more likely if you are using a movable aider if it is attached to the stick above the versa button.
 
A lot of stress is on the stand off bolt. When I used an aluminium bolt I bent it there with the hockey stick post. That is why the wider muddy standoff works better with a hockey stick post

I thinks most of the stress from an aider would be vertical.
Stress on the tube comes at the top step - It wants to twist there when you have unequal weight on the top step
Also the tube wants to flex and bend near the versa button

I expect a bolt or rivet has potential to shear over time if it not strong enough




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Outstanding thread!!! Really liking your approach to build a stick that the average guy can build at home in his garage without all the special machines/tools/equipment and keeping it simple for those of us that aren't engineers... Thank you and to all with the knowledge!
 
Just a thought on the rivet.

Even with high shear strength on the rivet itself, what is the possibility of the backing (flared end) pulling through the thin wall tubing? I know you really don’t have very much force trying to pull the rivet out, but there is some. Not sure if you guys used some sort of washer backing on it or not.
FYI I’m no engineer.
 
JakeB said:
Just a thought on the rivet.

Even with high shear strength on the rivet itself, what is the possibility of the backing (flared end) pulling through the thin wall tubing? I know you really don’t have very much force trying to pull the rivet out, but there is some. Not sure if you guys used some sort of washer backing on it or not.
FYI I’m no engineer.
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They put a washer in behind the tube.


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