Carbon platform

[Jammintree]

So I hear there’s a new carbon platform coming down the pipeline. I see the advantage of shaving weight off, that makes sense. I hear it won’t get as cold; does that really matter? Are some of you hunting barefoot? Isn’t carbon more brash than aluminum? It would seem to be a greater risk of of shattering / cracking from even minor falls. While I’ve yet to drop my platform from height, I can imagine it happening and I can definitely see the risk of minor drops. Do y’all think this is really going to be a technological advancement, changing the standards of platforms or will this be dead end?

 

[BTaylor]

Kinda surprised it has not already happened. Not sure how much can be gained though from where have progressed too. I think there is still room for functionality improvement in some aspects but not sure if you are just talking about structural improvement.

 

[Jammintree]

Kinda surprised it has not already happened. Not sure how much can be gained though from where have progressed too. I think there is still room for functionality improvement in some aspects but not sure if you are just talking about structural improvement.

There’s definitely room for functionality improvement. I was specifically wondering about the material change and it’s impact on structure, strength and longevity. But i don’t wish to limit the the discussion to my initial intentions.

 

[Tknapp]

So I hear there’s a new carbon platform coming down the pipeline. I see the advantage of shaving weight off, that makes sense. I hear it won’t get as cold; does that really matter? Are some of you hunting barefoot? Isn’t carbon more brash than aluminum? It would seem to be a greater risk of of shattering / cracking from even minor falls. While I’ve yet to drop my platform from height, I can imagine it happening and I can definitely see the risk of minor drops. Do y’all think this is really going to be a technological advancement, changing the standards of platforms or will this be dead end?

Cold transfers thru your boots, so the aluminum technically pulls the heat out of your feet thru your boots. As for the shattering or cracking (seems to be a common concern from a lot of people). Most people shoot carbon arrows. Automotive frames and snowmobile frames and bike frames and motorcycle frames and not to mention wheels for a countless number of things (I mountain bike and we have carbon frames and carbon wheels) are all made out of carbon fiber now. All of which take much more stress than dropping it from 20' up. I also believe it takes very extreme cold (-50c or -58F) to make carbon fiber brittle and this requires a long amount of time(days) reach that point. The major downfall I see thats not considered by most is the breaking point of appoxy bonding the carbon fiber. not the carbon fibers themselves.

 

[Reagan H.]

It all depends on the composition/make up of the carbon fiber, that's where things get complicated.

 

[John 35]

If they can make a large platform significantly lighter than it will be a significant advancement. Keeping your feet warmer sounds mainly like a marketing gimmick to me. As for durability I would wait and let all the eager beavers try it for a season before buying it.

 

[enkriss]

It all depends on the composition/make up of the carbon fiber, that's where things get complicated.

How come the Tethrd carbon platform is MIA? I expected it to make an appearance at the ATA. Has it been scrapped?

 

[Reagan H.]

(1) Tethrd Vader Platform Current Status | saddlehunter.com

 

[Samcirrus]

So, this is my wheelhouse because I have 5 all carbon fiber platforms I've built. In talking with some folks who heard abt my stuff and finding out their issues with producing cf platforms, it comes down to current designs and the manufacturing process...

 

[Samcirrus]

Some companies who are trying to make them are using existing concepts of platform design, and then finding out that while carbon is much stronger, its also more flexible in a similar thickness and horizontal orientation to aluminum and by the time you add material to make it stiff, it's now equal in weight to aluminum, but just way more expensive so the only gain is thermal...

 

[Samcirrus]

The structure behind a lighter than aluminum, carbon platform, has to be different. The whole concept. What I think another roadblock is, is that some companies are really trying to cut costs, for good reasons, by falling back into the plastic carbon fiber safe zone, known as forged cf(Latitude sticks, and I assume but am not certain Vader...) and research and prototyping gets expensive, especially the engineers doing the prototyping. So without extensive experience or cheap cf resources companies are probably limited to what innovations they can try. I do it for fun with scraps, which I have alot of, and expired adhesives (which are still good enough, just past FAA standards).
I am developing 2 of my cf platform designs, and hopefully they'll be unveiled by next ATA.

 

[John 35]

The structure behind a lighter than all aluminum, carbon platform has to be different. The whole concept. What I think another roadblock is, is that some companies are really trying to cut costs, by falling into the plastic carbon fiber, known as forged cf(Latitude sticks) and research and prototyping gets expensive especiallythe engineers doing it. So without experience or cheap resources companies are probably limited to what innovations they can try. I do it for fun with scraps and expired adhesives (which are still good enough, just past FAA standards).
I am developing 2 of my cf platform designs with someone, and hopefully they'll be unveiled by next ATA.

What are the dimensions expected to be?

 

[2Sloe]

Some companies who are trying to make them are using existing concepts of platform design, and then finding out that while carbon is much stronger, its also more flexible a a similar thickness to aluminum and by the time to add material to make it stiff, its equal in weight to aluminum, but way more expensive...

Good point. I always thought CF was brittle and inflexible, but after doing a little research on it I found that the two top attributes were it’s strength and it’s flexibility. Great stuff.

 

[Samcirrus]

What are the dimensions expected to be?

Hard to say exactly.... but large enough that you'd know the weight difference in order to make the price point worth it. Savvy?
Joking aside, I have put out a bunch or threads asking for info, and besides many ppl loving a lighter predator platform, which we can't copy, ppl seem to want more foot space....

 

[Samcirrus]

Good point. I always thought CF was brittle and inflexible, but after doing a little research on it I found that the two top attributes were it’s strength and it’s flexibility. Great stuff.

Yes, I think many ppl who haven't done alot of research have gotten an undeserved fear of CF because they've heard that whether it's stiff or flexible it breaks in a more dramatic fashion than aluminum. However, the fact is that it can hold, real carbon fiber layup that is, much higher loads than aluminum, and that should allay folks who fear it blowing up and hurting them....
I mean, like someone posted above, cf is used in so many different ways now and there's not alot of horror stories of cf breaking explosions per se.
If/when a cf platform actually comes out, it should be stronger than any load a realistic saddle hunting scenario would cause.
Look at the pursuit platforms, the bad ones just flex terribly, but never come close to breaking.

 

[Samcirrus]

Hard to say exactly.... but large enough that you'd know the weight difference in order to make the price point worth it. Savvy?
Joking aside, I have put out a bunch or threads asking for info, and besides many ppl loving a lighter predator platform, which we can't copy, ppl seem to want more foot space....

What i mean is, that when you make a small platform like the og Predator platform, you won't feel a huge difference in weight, whereas a big platform like the lwcg Ambush, if made out of carbon and designed properly could be 2/3rds of the weight.

 

[Jammintree]

Yes, I think many ppl who haven't done alot of research have gotten an undeserved fear of CF because they've heard that whether it's stiff or flexible it breaks in a more dramatic fashion than aluminum. However, the fact is that it can hold, real carbon fiber layup that is, much higher loads than aluminum, and that should allay folks who fear it blowing up and hurting them....
I mean, like someone posted above, cf is used in so many different ways now and there's not alot of horror stories of cf breaking explosions per se.
If/when a cf platform actually comes out, it should be stronger than any load a realistic saddle hunting scenario would cause.
Look at the pursuit platforms, the bad ones just flex terribly, but never come close to breaking.

Can you make any suggestions about how we as consumers can distinguish between various grades / blends of CF when we are researching new products?

 

[Samcirrus]

Good point. I always thought CF was brittle and inflexible, but after doing a little research on it I found that the two top attributes were it’s strength and it’s flexibility. Great stuff.

Yes, cf is flexible in a perpendicular direction to the fiber orientations, but Uber stiff in tension and compression. That's why the designs need to be different than current concepts.

 

[Samcirrus]

Can you make any suggestions about how we as consumers can distinguish between various grades / blends of CF when we are researching new products?

If you see a weave and ply direction its "real" carbon layup. If you see a mould with no pattern, it'll most likely be forged Carbon, which is weaker and more flexible.
I haven't seen the Tethrd Vader in person but from all the videos and pictures, plus first hand accounts, I believe it is forged CF, just like the pursuit platform and Latitude sticks.
Thats not bad, and certainly it makes them cheaper and more affordable, they just aren't as strong as a cf layup would be in similar situations.