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Electric bikes

Cajunshooter said:
Okay this will explain exactly what I was asking and concerned about. The hill this guy is attempting to climb is weak compared to what I need to climb.

Another one
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I have no experience with e-bikes, but I do have hills like what you are talking about. When I'm actually mountain biking I need to walk up some of them lol. I think what you are looking for is a dirt bike :D
 
redsquirrel said:
I have no experience with e-bikes, but I do have hills like what you are talking about. When I'm actually mountain biking I need to walk up some of them lol. I think what you are looking for is a dirt bike :D
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Dirt bikes and motorcycles of all kinds is something I have ample experience with for the last 40 years. I could just use my Polaris Ranger but I need for it to be quiet.

A mid-drive electric bike will do the job because I can totally control the gearing.


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Cajunshooter said:
Dirt bikes and motorcycles of all kinds is something I have ample experience with for the last 40 years. I could just use my Polaris Ranger but I need for it to be quiet.

A mid-drive electric bike will do the job because I can totally control the gearing.


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I have never experienced something like what was experienced in those videos.
I have never had my bike stop because of mud or a hill if I was pedalling normally and moving at least 5 mph. If it is a step hill it will go up the hill so long as you keep moving. I don't have any mountains to climb though.
Going up stairs. I have never tried that and I don't know why I would try it.
I have gone through waist high grass... It works but will plug the derailer eventually.
I have gone through heavy mud. It works so long as you do not stop. For me the problem is not keeping the bike moving it is keeping stable and under control in difficult conditions. I have wiped out on logs and such. No fun.
I have never had a motor just stop unless I stop. The motor will kick out if you are not moving at least I think about 2 mph.
If the going gets tough I can gear down. That said I almost always run in the top 3 gears.
My bike is much quieter than that bike. Just my experience over 2 years.
I often ride my bike for exercise in the summer 30 or 40 km on gravel and bike trails in a night. Yes you can exercise on a ebike.
I like it because an old man can get on a bike after a hard days work and go for a spin and peddle as much as he wants and if he gets exhausted he can be assisted home. I do not have to worry about fatigue, wind, hills, I can just go out exercise and have some fun.

When I hunt and use my bike I normally am travelling ag fields, corn stubble, dirt trails, and grass or gravel. These conditions drain the battery faster.
You use more battery the more difficult the riding conditions and the more weight you carry.
I often have 230 pounds on my bike when hunting.
If you can ride to work and store your bike so it does not get stolen it is a very economical mode of transportation.
I have no idea why a mid drive bike would be better than my bike. I can use my 9 gears depending on the conditions too.
 
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My bike specs for the motor. The throttle is on demand

MOTOR BRAND:
BionX
MOTOR TYPE:
Rear-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors
MOTOR NOMINAL OUTPUT:
500 watts
MOTOR TORQUE:
50 Newton meters (25 Nm Nominal)
BATTERY BRAND:
Panasonic
BATTERY VOLTAGE:
48 volts
BATTERY AMP HOURS:
11.6 ah
BATTERY WATT HOURS:
556.8 wh
BATTERY CHEMISTRY:
Lithium Manganese Cobalt
CHARGE TIME:
5 hours
ESTIMATED MIN RANGE:
30 miles (48 km)
ESTIMATED MAX RANGE:
70 miles (113 km)
DISPLAY TYPE:
Removable, Backlit LCD (Symmetrical Integrated Buttons for Right or Left Handed Users) (Removable, Symmetrical Integrated Buttons for Right or Left Handed Users)
READOUTS:
4 Proportional Assist and Generate Modes, Lighting Controls, Battery Voltage, Trip Distance, Odometer, Chronometer, Average Speed, Clock
DISPLAY ACCESSORIES:
Independent Button Pad on Right with Variable Speed Throttle(With Variable Speed Throttle)
DRIVE MODE:
Torque Sensing Pedal Assist, Trigger Throttle
TOP SPEED:
20 mph (32 kph) (Unless Otherwise Specified in Specific Jurisdictions)
 
Ontariofarmer said:
I have never experienced something like what was experienced in those videos.
I have never had my bike stop because of mud or a hill if I was pedalling normally and moving at least 5 mph. If it is a step hill it will go up the hill so long as you keep moving. I don't have any mountains to climb though.
Going up stairs. I have never tried that and I don't know why I would try it.
I have gone through waist high grass... It works but will plug the derailer eventually.
I have gone through heavy mud. It works so long as you do not stop. For me the problem is not keeping the bike moving it is keeping stable and under control in difficult conditions. I have wiped out on logs and such. No fun.
I have never had a motor just stop unless I stop. The motor will kick out if you are not moving at least I think about 2 mph.
If the going gets tough I can gear down. That said I almost always run in the top 3 gears.
My bike is much quieter than that bike. Just my experience over 2 years.
I often ride my bike for exercise in the summer 30 or 40 km on gravel and bike trails in a night. Yes you can exercise on a ebike.
I like it because an old man can get on a bike after a hard days work and go for a spin and peddle as much as he wants and if he gets exhausted he can be assisted home. I do not have to worry about fatigue, wind, hills, I can just go out exercise and have some fun.

When I hunt and use my bike I normally am travelling ag fields, corn stubble, dirt trails, and grass or gravel. These conditions drain the battery faster.
You use more battery the more difficult the riding conditions and the more weight you carry.
I often have 230 pounds on my bike when hunting.
If you can ride to work and store your bike so it does not get stolen it is a very economical mode of transportation.
I have no idea why a mid drive bike would be better than my bike. I can use my 9 gears depending on the conditions too.
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Ontario the problem is, if you have never ridden up a hill as steep as the ones shown in these videos or the steps shown then you just don’t have the same terrain as some of us and your experience is different. No matter how much you like your bike, if it hasn’t been tested under the same conditions that me and others have to expect to face, then your experience isn’t going to quantify what our needs are.

What I know from a mechanical perspective is if you can’t change the gearing of the motor drive then you are going to be very limited in the amount of power you can apply to the ground through the rear tire. So having front/mid-drive motor is going to give you better power options that you cannot get through a rear drive.


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a review of the motor that is used on my bike but it is on a specialized mountain bike instead of a norco fat bike

A old review. My bike motor is slightly updated.
 
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Ontariofarmer said:

a very short video of my type of bike in action
Click to expand...

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. That’s not a hill, that’s a rock and momentum is what carried him up that rock, not the power of the motor.


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Cajunshooter said:
Okay this will explain exactly what I was asking and concerned about. The hill this guy is attempting to climb is weak compared to what I need to climb.

Another one
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Click to expand...

The 1st vid would probably benefit from some gear changes, but the second video was probably a pure wattage factor.

Luna also has a 3000w middrive called the cyclone drive you can check out on YouTube. It’s actally listed cheaper than the750 and 1000 watt bafangs, but uses multiple chains and sprockets and looks like a gnarly pants eating monster

I’ll do my best to get mine out this weekend and see how it does
 
sb220 said:
The 1st vid would probably benefit from some gear changes, but the second video was probably a pure wattage factor.

Luna also has a 3000w middrive called the cyclone drive you can check out on YouTube. It’s actally listed cheaper than the750 and 1000 watt bafangs, but uses multiple chains and sprockets and looks like a gnarly pants eating monster

I’ll do my best to get mine out this weekend and see how it does
Click to expand...

Come on man I’m waiting on you!


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Cajunshooter said:
That’s exactly what I’m talking about. That’s not a hill, that’s a rock and momentum is what carried him up that rock, not the power of the motor.


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Well it suits my purposes. I can use the throttle to start in less than ideal conditions but yes momentum is important going fairly slow up a slippery smooth rock.. If your crank attached motor will out perform go for it.
A Bosch crank motor produces a similar amount of torque to my bike the last time I looked.
Like I said I am not a bike expert just an old farmer who likes my bike.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
Well it suits my purposes. I can use the throttle to start in less than ideal conditions but yes momentum is important going fairly slow up a slippery smooth rock.. If your crank attached motor will out perform go for it.
A Bosch crank motor produces a similar amount of torque to my bike the last time I looked.
Like I said I am not a bike expert just an old farmer who likes my bike.
Click to expand...

Well if you’re happy then that makes me happy!


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Cajunshooter said:
That’s exactly what I’m talking about. That’s not a hill, that’s a rock and momentum is what carried him up that rock, not the power of the motor.


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We don't know what level of assist he had so we do not know how much of the motor he was using up that rock but yes he certainly was using momentum.

It does look like that Rad rover is a pretty crappy bike compared to what I ride. I have never had it just stop in conditions that he was riding and it is very noisy.
If I press the throttle I have 300 percent assist.

You are likely correct about a crank drive bike you seem to know much more than me. I cannot say I am an expert. I can only go by personal experience which is never as good as overall technical or scientific knowledge You certainly seem to know your stuff. I am no bike expert.
But yes I am happy with my bike. I hope you find what you are looking for.
 
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sb220 said:
The 1st vid would probably benefit from some gear changes, but the second video was probably a pure wattage factor.

Luna also has a 3000w middrive called the cyclone drive you can check out on YouTube. It’s actally listed cheaper than the750 and 1000 watt bafangs, but uses multiple chains and sprockets and looks like a gnarly pants eating monster

I’ll do my best to get mine out this weekend and see how it does
Click to expand...
How much torque does it have... I read 50 NM. is that any different than mine. I am not sure it is. Do we want torque or watts. Are watts not like horsepower and torque is what does the work. Horsepower gives you speed I think.
Two tractors with 160 horsepower will not pull the same because the torque or pulling ability will differ based on engine size. A 400 hp ram truck. or a 800 hp car will not will not out pull a 160 horsepower 8920 IH tractor because of torque. The 8920 has a much bigger bigger diesel engine.
I think that torque is more important in a bike not wattage unless you want to burn rubber.. I am not a bike expert - just trying to learn.
My Honda CRV 190 has more horsepower than my 8920 IH . The CRV will pull next to nothing. The 8920 probably 30,000 pounds or more on the road. Why engine displacement = torque I think...but I am not an expert. Honda - 1.5 litre turbo (a shetland pony ) Tractor 8.3 litre turbo cummins diesel (a clydesdale) Equal number of horses - one each - but bigger displacement. The CRV is faster for sure and the shetland pony is likely faster too.
That said I know there are some ebikes that put out 100 NM of torque. Double mine. The newest Bosch crank motors do. Maybe you should look at them.
For now I will drive the Shetland on the road and use the Clydesdale in the field. Does the same apply for bikes. Maybe you guys can help me answer the question.
 
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Powering all three of the 2017 OHM models is a BionX D-Series gearless hub motor. It’s smooth, extremely quiet, produces a lot of torque for such a compact design, and dissipates heat well. Most hub motors I see these days are gearless and built into Aluminum alloy casing. BionX took a completely different approach with the D-Series by using a composite plastic casing that doesn’t connect to the spokes on the wheel, it actually sits in between them. This allows the wheels to flex a bit and means that the motor casing doesn’t have to be as heavy or thick which reduces weight. It’s interesting to note that despite appearing large, the motor does not tip the bike backward, making it rear-heavy, as almost all other gearless designs do. It offers many of the strengths of a geared design but will be more durable over time because there are no rubbing parts inside. When this motor operates, it does not interfere with the drivetrain the way that mid-drive motors do and that means your chain, sprockets, and derailleur won’t need as much maintenance. It also means you get throttle-on-demand vs. just pedal assist. Yes, there are a few mid-drive motors that offer throttle operation, but they are much less prevalent. The one limitation I noticed is that the motor is not powerful enough to climb medium sized hills with throttle-only power. You have to either come at the hill with a bit of momentum or help out by pedaling. This is not much different than geared hubs or mid-drives, I just want to be clear that having a throttle is different than being able to sit back and ascend trails without pedaling at all. And, since the bike comes with a high-end 10-speed Shimano drivetrain, pedaling and shifting is a breeze. I noticed that the chainring is a bit larger on this ebike than many other trail models I see, but that was done in part to accommodate high-speed 28 mph operation (for those who request it). I guess you can’t have everything, I was still able to climb effectively by shifting to the lowest gear and it made a big difference having a plastic chain guide on the chainring to reduce drops. Depending on your outfit, the chainring is a bit exposed and you could get some grease and snags, but the chain guide might help a bit.

This is a review about climbing hills comparing a mid drive and rear drive motor. The one described as a rear drive is my bike. You are correct about momentum pedaling and shifting. You need that on big hills with either type of bike.
 
A 2500 W motor will kill your battery fast and after talking to a bike shop I would rather buy a 500 w motor with more torque than watts
Or even a 350 watt for range.
50 to 100 kn of torque is preferred instead of massive wattage

Bosch mid line motors max out at 600 W with 75 kn of torque.
Torque is what you want in a bike unless you are racing on level streets.
I want the tractor not the camaro


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