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Hawk helium mods

IkemanTX

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
3,500
Just finished 3 "etriers" for my Hawk Heliums. They are made out of 1 inch nylon webbing, and I hope to test them out soon. The design is essentially a step inside a step, each secured with a single overhand knot. I have tried the loop style ones where there is a single step on alternating sides, and I really don't feel very secure stepping down in the dark. The rung spacer is flexible PVC from the lawn sprinkler section at your local big box. If I decide to leave the sticks at 3 steps, this will get me to 20 feet. But, I am really considering cutting the sticks down to 20" like DaveT1969 did, making the steps 18" apart. I would only lose 1.75 feet of height for the loss in weight.

The versa button and rope mod (8mm PMI accessory cord)


The full stick and etrier


A NON weight-bearing stitch to keep the inside step from twisting, this will be stitched along the length of the double strap with heavier stitching shortly (proof of concept)


The length from the top step (not the top of the stick, but the actual step) to the bottom rung.


And I couldn't have planned the pack up any better if I tried.... simply twist the bottom rung a half twist and it has enough tension to hold like this!


I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out.

As always, I do not recommend modifying any of your own gear based on my mods. Not only will it void your manufacturer's warranty, but could also result in failure if not done properly
 
*Edit to fix calculation. See new calc further down.*
Looking good. I'm working on my helium mods too. How well are your sticks stacking with the versa buttons? Dave has flush versa buttons and Kenn drilled into the next stick so they sit in there. What I did was I cut the portion of the versa button that contacts the stick down so that they sit flush. I made some amsteel whoopie slings that I wanted to use for these, but I feel the lone wolf webbing straps slide onto the button safer so I think that is what I'm going to end up using. I'm still working all of that out.

But what I already worked out was that I'm going with 4 mini sticks. I cut them down below the middle step, leaving enough room for the brackets to sit between the step and the next bracket. I decided that cutting to 17.5 or 15 inches (or whatever the actual numbers are) didn't make a difference to me. It would end up being about 8 inches over 4 sticks. I have short legs and would rather be able to reach the step.

Kenn and I did some math and it turns out you start to gain an advantage by having smaller sticks with even 1 aider. These numbers are for Kenn's step width. Another big advantage of the short sticks is how compact they pack up. I can also throw them in an airtight bag for scent control now. 1 of my short sticks with a lone wolf strap/buckle weights about 2 lbs, so 4 will come in at around 8.
 
I posted this on the other site I saw you posted on, but will post it here to help this community as well.

One of the advantages to the helium stick is the long V brackets keep the sticks away from the tree. This is useful when dealing with getting your foot in the aider. If you run the webbing through the inside holes on the steps, it spreads the aider slightly and keeps it retained on the step. The step still folds up nicely. Also the black tubing should be shortened to 6" max. When you step on it, the plastic will kink, making the opening narrower than desired and longer spacing between steps than intended. I started with 8" wide and had that problem.

 
redsquirrel said:
Looking good. I'm working on my helium mods too. How well are your sticks stacking with the versa buttons? Dave has flush versa buttons and Kenn drilled into the next stick so they sit in there. What I did was I cut the portion of the versa button that contacts the stick down so that they sit flush. I made some amsteel whoopie slings that I wanted to use for these, but I feel the lone wolf webbing straps slide onto the button safer so I think that is what I'm going to end up using. I'm still working all of that out.

But what I already worked out was that I'm going with 4 mini sticks. I cut them down below the middle step, leaving enough room for the brackets to sit between the step and the next bracket. I decided that cutting to 17.5 or 15 inches (or whatever the actual numbers are) didn't make a difference to me. It would end up being about 8 inches over 4 sticks. I have short legs and would rather be able to reach the step.

They didn't stack too well until I figured out the right pattern to use when wrapping the rope around the stick. They firmed up a bit from that, and then the aiders firmed it up even more. Either way, I use 2 "Nite Ize gear Ties" to secure them together. That takes ALL movement out of them.

kenn1320 said:
Also the black tubing should be shortened to 6" max. When you step on it, the plastic will kink, making the opening narrower than desired and longer spacing between steps than intended. I started with 8" wide and had that problem.

Kenn, you are absolutely right on this. Although my original aiders haven't buckled yet, I feel like they will. I went with the schedule 80 flexible tubing instead of the schedule 40. With double the wall thickness, I feel it will hold up better. I plan on adding a flexible fiberglass rod to prevent buckling. But if I had it to do over, I would go with the 6" rung width. It would have saved a foot in webbing cost too.
 
Can you post dimensions of the mini sticks, Total stick length and step spacing? Interested on giving these a try!!

* I clicked edit on your post instead of quote so we lost some info. Sorry! I am posting my info below. -red
 
Ya, I think you are adding a gap for both calculations with mini sticks. With mini sticks and no aiders, there is 1 gap and 1 step height for a total of 148" (correction, I forgot about the final gap between the top step and the stand. assuming it is also 18.5, the height for 4 sticks with no aiders is 166.5)

 
Yep 4 minis with aider would equal 20ft.

Also Dave and I are using sprinkler/irrigation pipe, very thin wall(light weight).
 
Good catch guys. I'm chalking that up to a copy/paste that started my error and then doing that calc while I had real things on my brain lol. I'm editing my post and your quote to take the incorrect info out.

So the 4 mini sticks still come out on top. The additional aider and gaps really add up.

4 mini sticks
18.5 = 18.5
18.5 x 4 = 74. Add in the gaps 18.5 x 5 = 92.5 + 74 = 166.5" or 13.87ft.

4 mini sticks with 1 aider
18.5 x 2 = 37
37 x 4 = 148. Add in the gaps 18.5 x 5 = 92.5 + 148 = 240.5" or 20 ft

3 sticks
13 x 2 = 26
26 x 3 = 78. Add in the gaps 18.5 x 4 = 74 + 78 = 152" or 12.7ft.

3 sticks with aiders
13 x 2 = 26 plus 18.5" aider = 44.5"
44.5 x 3 = 133.5. Add in the gaps 18.5 x 4 = 74 + 133.5 = 207.5" or 17.3ft
 
MCDM said:
Can you post dimensions of the mini sticks, Total stick length and step spacing? Interested on giving these a try!!

My sticks are 17 inches. I had planned on a 15" step spacing, but I screwed up on that because there needs to be a gap between the bottom step and the bracket for them to stack. So I have 1 stick at 15" (the top one on the stack), and the rest of them are at the 13.5 that they were already drilled at. I am short and when the winter clothing starts coming out I'd rather have nice easy steps anyway. I can make up that extra height with a 2 step aider on the bottom if I want.
 
redsquirrel said:
MCDM said:
Can you post dimensions of the mini sticks, Total stick length and step spacing? Interested on giving these a try!!

My sticks are 17 inches. I had planned on a 15" step spacing, but I screwed up on that because there needs to be a gap between the bottom step and the bracket for them to stack. So I have 1 stick at 15" (the top one on the stack), and the rest of them are at the 13.5 that they were already drilled at. I am short and when the winter clothing starts coming out I'd rather have nice easy steps anyway. I can make up that extra height with a 2 step aider on the bottom if I want.

Yep its gonna take personal testing to determine the proper step spacing and "if the stick will allow it". There are slots milled that conveniently can be in the wrong spot. :lol: Dave has his steps 21" apart, think I went 20.25" on mine. For the aiders I like 18.5", cause they are moving and you cant "throw" your foot up at them like a hard step if you know what I mean. To Reds point, in shorts or sweat pants I can go from the bottom step to the top, skipping the middle step. However with my normal end of fall clothing on, not a chance. Also while its easier to come down than go up, keep in mind you will be doing it after you have been stationary in the cold for hours. Dont make them dangerous just to save some weight.
 
I think I will stick with the 18.5 gap for all of mine. My aiders are currently 18.5 on the bottom rung and 13.5 on the top (the tops were first and I matched the hawk spacing). If I don't change the shorter aider length, that would put the bottom of my platform at almost 19 feet. A lot of the areas I am at, I have had issues even getting that high before I'm in the bottom limbs of canopy. most of the scrub oaks around here stop having a central trunk at that point, so it doesn't make sense to go higher. I am thinking that I may wait to cut down until I can either trade for, or buy, a set of ACTUAL hawk brands that have the milling. I really like the cut down steps that you did redsquirrel, and I should be able to get 6 out of the left overs of cutting 3 sticks down to minis.
 
kenn1320 said:
Yep 4 minis with aider would equal 20ft.

Also Dave and I are using sprinkler/irrigation pipe, very thin wall(light weight).

Ya, I was picking around Lowes when I was in the design phase and found 1 foot lengths of some really thick and stiff stuff. It is schedule 80 and after hunting with it a few times, and doing some heavy weight tests this morning, I don't know that it will ever end up buckling.

 
Yikes thats easily 6x the wall thickness. It wont buckle, but I bet it clanks pretty good if it hits another stick while hanging it. You really dont need the tube in terms of structure/strength, its just there to hold the step open to get your foot in it. Really that added wall thickness is just added weight. Your dual step method of parrallel straps with some stitching is very clean looking, good idea. I tied water knots, only cause I already had the lengths pre-cut. If I ventured into the dual aider steps on my sticks, might look at using your method.
 
My biggest catch on unnecessary weight is the lack of milling on the sticks. My total weight for 3 sticks, 3 2-step aiders, and gear ties is 11.2 pounds.
 
Here's my cutdown sticks where they are at now. I only have 1 step on the bottom. I just wanted dual steps for the top. Ikeman I like your aiders, I might try something similar.

You'll notice the versa buttons aren't quite as "tall" since I trimmed them down. I still have to trim down the screw on the exit side.

IkemanTX said:
I really like the cut down steps that you did redsquirrel, and I should be able to get 6 out of the left overs of cutting 3 sticks down to minis.
Thanks. I made 3 out of the 1st stick I cutdown because I cut the stick to 17".

74f538d05268e1e5bb0f207030dcd892.jpg
 
redsquirrel said:
Here's my cutdown sticks where they are at now. I only have 1 step on the bottom. I just wanted dual steps for the top. Ikeman I like your aiders, I might try something similar.

You'll notice the versa buttons aren't quite as "tall" since I trimmed them down. I still have to trim down the screw on the exit side.

IkemanTX said:
I really like the cut down steps that you did redsquirrel, and I should be able to get 6 out of the left overs of cutting 3 sticks down to minis.
Thanks. I made 3 out of the 1st stick I cutdown because I cut the stick to 17".

74f538d05268e1e5bb0f207030dcd892.jpg

OK, I see how you shortened the versa button Red. Did you give any thought to counter boring the versa button to sink the head as one of the methods?

Ikeman I find it hard to believe that slot milling drops that much weight. Wow. As I stated, the milled slots are not in a good location for shortening sticks. I had to compromise as Im sure Red did as well to position things where the slots wouldnt interfere. You could always drill holes to lighten yours.
 
kenn1320 said:
OK, I see how you shortened the versa button Red. Did you give any thought to counter boring the versa button to sink the head as one of the methods?

I did, but after thinking about it I thought that doing that would make the button prone to failing. It would have been taking a lot of material away from that top section that keeps the loop from sliding off. I figured doing it this way makes the spot to hold the loops smaller, but it will not affect the strength of the button.
 
kenn1320 said:
Ikeman I find it hard to believe that slot milling drops that much weight. Wow. As I stated, the milled slots are not in a good location for shortening sticks. I had to compromise as Im sure Red did as well to position things where the slots wouldnt interfere. You could always drill holes to lighten yours.

I had to re-weigh myself a few times to verify. I am using a bathroom scale with me+sticks and then me-sticks.
But full length sticks, 10' accessory cord each, a 2-step aider each, and 2 gear ties to hold it together came consistently to 11.2lbs
 
redsquirrel said:
kenn1320 said:
OK, I see how you shortened the versa button Red. Did you give any thought to counter boring the versa button to sink the head as one of the methods?

I did, but after thinking about it I thought that doing that would make the button prone to failing. It would have been taking a lot of material away from that top section that keeps the loop from sliding off. I figured doing it this way makes the spot to hold the loops smaller, but it will not affect the strength of the button.

I had the same concern of weakening it. :lol: I would like to find one that is below the surface like Dave has to see how they did it. Go put on one of your amsteel slings and see if it still works with the shortened button.
 
IkemanTX said:
kenn1320 said:
Ikeman I find it hard to believe that slot milling drops that much weight. Wow. As I stated, the milled slots are not in a good location for shortening sticks. I had to compromise as Im sure Red did as well to position things where the slots wouldnt interfere. You could always drill holes to lighten yours.

I had to re-weigh myself a few times to verify. I am using a bathroom scale with me+sticks and then me-sticks.
But full length sticks, 10' accessory cord each, a 2-step aider each, and 2 gear ties to hold it together came consistently to 11.2lbs

I weigh everything on a digital shipping scale, so some of yours might be off due to the scale. Well that or your ties and those pipes weigh more than ya think. :lol: The rope can add weight, especially with the figure 8 knot on the end. Im going to upgrade to the amsteel, way lighter. I just wonder how easy it flings around a tree?
 
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