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Making a new tether

lukepighetti said:
From what I can tell, life and safety design factor is 10. The load created by a fall is related to rope elongation, and most of the guys here use static rope. (There's a video out there showing 20,000 lb static rope failing a 5000 lb dynamic drop test, using a 200 lbm dummy.) Also, life and safety design is meant for when something goes wrong, not when everything goes right and you only fall 18". This all leads me to believe that 5.5mm is not the right size static rope for me to be hanging from. :)


16 inch drop creating a 32x dynamic force on a spring scale. Not sure what the spring constant of accessory cord is.
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I agree that kinetic energy from mometum creates monster loads and dynometers don't lie!
It's up to the end user to have enough protection built in the system for them to have confidence.
 
kenn1320 said:
Awesome video, thanks for posting that. Does this mean we should not be using static rope, especially for our lineman where we are at a higher risk of fall?
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We are doing static type climbing so using static rope is fine.

IIRC rock climbers are told to never climb more than two body lengths higher than their last pro (PROtection- anchor, etc.)
That means a fall of 12ish feet is possible and yes in that kind of fall you need a dynamic rope....It's kinda like a bungee cord- it distributes the same force to the body and pro over a far longer duration of time compared to static giving you all that force nearly instantly- quite the slam.

For our use a "fall" should never be more than a hand full of inches to 18" Static is fine.
 
kenn1320 said:
Awesome video, thanks for posting that. Does this mean we should not be using static rope, especially for our lineman where we are at a higher risk of fall?
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm just a guy on the internet, so don't pay attention to me. Just wanted to provide some food for thought. I have no life and safety equipment training, just a bachelors in mechanical engineering (which, trust me, means less than life and safety equipment training.)
 
I don't think the lineman belt does much to stop you from falling other than helping you balance and use both hands. If you slipped off a climbing stick while only attached with your LB, I think you're going to the ground. Maybe it would help you enough to let you bear hug the tree.

I've never tested this and I hope I never do.
 
g2outdoors said:
I don't think the lineman belt does much to stop you from falling other than helping you balance and use both hands. If you slipped off a climbing stick while only attached with your LB, I think you're going to the ground. Maybe it would help you enough to let you bear hug the tree.

I've never tested this and I hope I never do.
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It should stop your decent if you use the flinging-X hook up.
 
g2outdoors said:
I don't think the lineman belt does much to stop you from falling other than helping you balance and use both hands. If you slipped off a climbing stick while only attached with your LB, I think you're going to the ground. Maybe it would help you enough to let you bear hug the tree.

I've never tested this and I hope I never do.
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If you fell while just attached to your L belt,
Hopefully the skin of your belly would act like a brake against the tree slowing the fall, LOL.
 
lukepighetti said:
Hey, I'm just a guy on the internet, so don't pay attention to me. Just wanted to provide some food for thought. I have no life and safety equipment training, just a bachelors in mechanical engineering (which, trust me, means less than life and safety equipment training.)
Click to expand...

No bro! We need your input and math.
Could you refresh us on how the angle of the rope with weight on it decreases the strength.... It mostly taught with slings and cranes. Know what I'm referring too?

It would directly apply to the angle of our rope bridge with a caregiver clipped in the middle.
 
g2outdoors said:
I go with the smallest rope that works with my Ropeman. Right now that's Samson Ultra tech 9 mm.
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"Works". But is not approved. Just making the distinction for anyone who reads this.
 
lukepighetti said:
From what I can tell, life and safety design factor is 10. The load created by a fall is related to rope elongation, and most of the guys here use static rope. (There's a video out there showing 20,000 lb static rope failing a 5000 lb dynamic drop test, using a 200 lbm dummy.) Also, life and safety design is meant for when something goes wrong, not when everything goes right and you only fall 18". This all leads me to believe that 5.5mm is not the right size static rope for me to be hanging from. :)


16 inch drop creating a 32x dynamic force on a spring scale. Not sure what the spring constant of accessory cord is.
Click to expand...
Great post.
 
I quit using assault line for my tether after an experience I had on a slick tree. I stood up to move around the tree and my tether fell straight down all the way to the platform! Double wrapped around the tree and it does fine.

But you can also look at knots in Assault line compared to Yale Bandit and the Bandit knots are held much better
 

Just found the video of the 20,500 pound static line breaking when 220 lbm is dropped 6.5 feet. While the 5,900 pound dynamic line completes the same test six times without breaking. Great video.

All my degree does is allow me to attempt to understand why fall arrest standards are made the way they are. I could never in a million years produce information that would improve upon these standards. I would guess that there are probably a thousand individuals with lifelong careers tied up in each and every fall arrest standard, from the simplest buckle, to the most basic knot. The trick for me is to find the standards and apply them properly, something that life & safety training would teach very quickly and thoroughly. In other words, I wish I had access to life & safety training.
 
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Another great video and ya have to ask, why use static when dynamic rope is as safe while suspended and safer if there is a fall?
 
All I can offer to that question is I imagine static rope is a lot easier to handle, while dynamic rope is superior for fall arrest.

I will say this; I've fallen 5 feet on dynamic rope with a rock harness and it sucks.
 
justsomedude said:
Static is easier to rapel
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Once I needed to ascend a rope 98' up.
There was so much stretch to the dynamic rope I had to use that it took three or four steps up to get all the stretch out of the rope. At three or fours steps upwards on Gibbs ascenders I was still standing flat footed on the ground.
 
kenn1320 said:
Another great video and ya have to ask, why use static when dynamic rope is as safe while suspended and safer if there is a fall?
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The *most important thing* in static climbing, which is what we do with our saddles is to never allow slack to develop in your main anchor, which for us is our tether. If there's no slack there is no big load generated from momentum & kinetic energy to stress our rigging and body in the event of a slip.
Please keep slack to a bare minimum or allow zero slack better yet. This is rule 1 in static climbing.
 
kenn1320 said:
Another great video and ya have to ask, why use static when dynamic rope is as safe while suspended and safer if there is a fall?
Click to expand...
I think static line is perfect for our purposes. Low stretch with high workloads for hanging still for long periods of time while constantly under load. If I was using it for an application where it would catch my fall, such as when hanging from a tree stand, then I would want some dynamic rope. If you are worried about a fall, I would be just as, if not more concerned with the ropeman failing (even more so if anyone is using it on a smaller than approved rope). .

As we've talked about before, the most dangerous part of hunting from a tree for us is really climbing the tree and switching from our lineman's belt to tether. I really don't have confidence in a lineman's belt to save me from a fall either, but the lineman's belt does allow me to climb the tree and hook up safely.

Just on a side note here, I don't want to think what might happen to the sit and drag under a fall. I think I would categorize it as a "static" saddle for sure.
 
Ex Umbra said:
If you fell while just attached to your L belt,
Hopefully the skin of your belly would act like a brake against the tree slowing the fall, LOL.
Click to expand...


I fell last year with just the linesman. Not sure if the cam action from the immediate collision with the tree stopped me or the tree step below me that jammed into my leg. Still gotta mark on my leg.
 
Glad to hear you came away from that with just a mark on your leg.

My brother in law fell 15 feet 3 seasons ago from his lock on treestand. No safety line. He was standing on the platform screwing a bow holder into the tree when the ratchet strap broke. He went all the way to the ground and broke his wrist, leg and had a concussion.

His wrist still hasn't fully recovered and he's scared to death to climb a tree. I guess it's a PTSD kind of thing. Very scary stuff.

Be safe out there!
 
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