What is the mini?
Hickory Creek Mini Vertical Crossbow
What is the mini?
I’m curious of the difference in shot behavior of a torqued up 400+fps crossbow versus the mini. The above post about it wanting jump giving me that curiosity.
What I know is that if you have everything tightened down on the mini properly, your rest is centered in both axes, d loop is tied from factory or repeated in right spot, and you hold it mostly vertical, it is an incredibly repeatable weapon. Regardless of grip or form or cheek weld or any of that. From 0-50 yards, with a scope that holds zero, it’s hard not to hit a target exactly where you’re aiming.
I had some uncomfortable results on with the two shots I took at big bucks with the mini and a standard scope. Enough so that I was either giving up the scope idea or giving up a crossbow all together. One was a rushed shot that I “missed” trying to get deer in scope quickly and wasn’t settled. The other I hit a branch that I couldn’t see through scope.
I swapped to the red dot, and I’ve connected on every shot since. Ranges from 20-44 yards. Having both eyes open either through the shot or at least while lining it up is a huge plus.
Assuming those big ole angry crossbows behave the same way as a mini, I can’t see how anyone would want to shoot a standard scope unless they’re shooting 50 plus yards, and have some sort of rest.
I can’t imagine anyone is going to cock a crossbow 100 times to repeat a study like was mentioned above. But I think there’s a big enough body of evidence across mini users here to extrapolate from.
I don’t know anyone who would consider hitting +-2” from their point of aim at 30 yards with archery tackle every single time a reason not to go hunting. I’d wager that half of the people on this forum who bowhunt couldn’t hit a 4” circle 100% of the time if there was skin in the game.
I also think that you’d have to try really hard to get any of the red dots I’ve put on my mini to hit outside of that with trying to shoot from some bizarre angle or head position. I’ve tried moderately hard and couldn’t.
It seems like there should be a “vendors lie about parallax” thread, that can be linked to in the “can I kill deer effectively with a red dot on a crossbow” thread. Admittedly, I’m math and statistics nerd, so I wouldn’t be able to ignore a study like that completely, and especially when considering rifles at longer distances.
TLDR: you probably stink at shooting arrows precisely. Swapping to a red dot on your crossbow will not stop you from stinking at worst, and at best may result in a marginal improvement in precision both in target and hunting scenarios.
I mean, nobody said you can’t kill deer effectively with a crossbow using a reflex sight.
I’m only suggesting that an understanding of an optic’s capabilities is worth a look.
It’s a bit more nuanced, imo, than choosing a top performing reflex sight and proclaiming red dot sights: the pointy thing goes (almost) wherever the dot is. Data reflects this.
Therefore, I wouldn’t relegate parallax error as something overly technical and unimportant to our use of ”red dot sights” afield, as separating threads into categories like you suggested certainly implies.
Look at the optics that perform on the lower end of this study. Low quality red dot scopes? I think not. Some of them are optics folks trust and rely on for far more important applications than harvesting deer. They are quality optics that can and will get it done. But maximizing effectiveness goes hand in hand with understanding how they perform.
Up to 4” average parallax deviation at the margins at 25yds is significant.
Keep in mind, that’s up to 4” (sometimes more than 4”) not including how far you pushed, pulled, or punched a shot. What’s the average freehand group of a crossbow shooter at 25yds? Add the parallax to that and it starts to paint a picture.
But who would shoot with the dot at the margins, right? Perhaps somebody who was told that the pointy thing always goes where the red dot is. Possibly somebody who hunts from a saddle and contorts his or herself into dynamic shooting positions. Maybe even some smart fellow testing his specific optic.
It sounds like you’ve been that smart fellow who’s fiddled with some red dots to see what they can do. I applaud that and it’s really the point of the matter. I doubt your results are universal, and imo folks would be well served to do as you have and check the performance of their own optic(s).
Just because @Nutterbuster’s red dot “doesn’t move” doesn’t mean Johnny Saddlehunter’s doesn’t. As in the case of this person, it was worth checking a specific optic unit despite what we’d expect from data and backyard testing:
Parallax Free?
www.xdtalk.com
As well, when purchasing an optic, is an informed decision not the best decision? Possibly in a thread about red dots, splitting hairs enables someone to make that right choice for his/her needs.
I’ve posted information that I find of value. Of course, folks can do with it whatever they want…check their optic..make an informed decision buying an optic.. maximize effectiveness with an optic…ignore it...challenge it (just do it well).
I’m admittedly frazzled from work and tiny person.
But wouldn’t we have gotten some anecdotal evidence around here to suggest this was a big issue for crossbow users at crossbow distances?
At least one person?
I generally don’t disagree with a lot of that.
And I’m open to this being a chronic issue in our use case.
But has anyone here experienced this with a crossbow?
I can’t make any of mine shoot off enough to notice, with any of the angles and positions I could come up with target shooting or hunting. I’ve shot the bow free hand, left handed, with a cheek weld without, strong side side weak side of tree, kneeling standing sitting.
They all hit well within my margin for error every time out to 40 yards.
Even taking into account the potential parallax issue, I still think a person would be better off not having any idea about it, and risking it, versus the outcomes that arise with a normal scope in bowhuntjng situations. But that’s an opinion Fa sho.
Do we have anyone here who has had a red dot reflex whatever they’re called sight have an issue with POI being off from POA outside your own personal margin for error? Should probably ask in mini thread too
The old fastfire 2 can be found on eBay for $100. Only difference is you have to remove the unit from the rail to change batteries. If you can do that every 2-3 seasons, it's a good deal.@Red Beard how did the red dot project go so far? Anyone else?
Any recommendations for a less than 100 red dot for the crossbow?
Romeo 5 I was told for an AR was a good pick. I know they go on sale now and then. Anything to keep an eye out for to be on sale for black Friday?
Haven't made the swap yet. It will probably happen after this season is over.@Red Beard how did the red dot project go so far? Anyone else?
Any recommendations for a less than 100 red dot for the crossbow?
Romeo 5 I was told for an AR was a good pick. I know they go on sale now and then. Anything to keep an eye out for to be on sale for black Friday?
I've got an $80 RDS - can't recall if Burris or Bushnell, bought it on sale at Fleet Farm years ago - on a 300BLK pistol. Don't have all that many rounds through it but I'd be comfortable putting it on my KI. Actually, airgun scopes have to be built tougher than firearm optics because of the unique recoil action of spring piston airguns or some such. I've also seen the Sig Romeo on work rifles that get shot a lot and they seem to hold up well. I've got a cheap TruGlo on a 12ga Mossberg, but I hesitate to recommend it until I shoot it more, although so far it's done well enough.@Red Beard how did the red dot project go so far? Anyone else?
Any recommendations for a less than 100 red dot for the crossbow?
Romeo 5 I was told for an AR was a good pick. I know they go on sale now and then. Anything to keep an eye out for to be on sale for black Friday?