Sticks, Aiders, Saddles vs the deer’s senses.

[Boudreaux]

However, to be frank - Who the hell cares? I mean really who cares if the deer saw, smelt or herd you first?
Sit there regurgitating "facts or fictions" and feeling like a victim of circumstances beyond our control and powerless due to the fact no one can “know for sure” what triggered the response.
Or
You can take steps to mitigate whatever it might have been.

Most of these steps sure as hell aren't going to hurt your odds.

To me, most people should. It is kind of pointless to waist time and money on something that might not have been the problem.

I Recently watched a video on you tube of someone climbing and setting up for a hunt and timing it. It was obvious the goal was to do it quickly.

If I did it quick that would have be sub 5 mins. This is the pace I hunt at, I don’t see the point in going slow. See below.

However, would I personally hunt that way? NOPE. Reason: There was so many things moving around, bumping together, and overall movement that IN MY EXPEREINCE it would spook any mature buck bedded even remotely close to that area.

please don't misinterpret - I view noise as a big area to address.

This is a difference in hunting styles. Dave likes to hunt “Buck beds” where I hunt transition areas. I don’t completely believe the buck bed theory on ALL deer. There are some deer that will do this, but not all. So I don’t give a crap about noise, because there deer shouldn’t be there when I am setting up. Sure some might be, and I go about my business and can get set up and the deer never hear or see me. Where as Dave tends to set up within close range of bedded deer. So he believes that noise is a major issue for him. Different styles=Different thoughts.

I can't believe anyone that has hunted very long and been close to whitetails does not understand how great their vision is at picking up movement even when they appear to be looking in another direction.

I don’t think anyone here is arguing this, Deer see MOVEMENT very well. We all gree on this.

good science is better than our opinions. Deer see movement and blue. True or not?
Social media is full of lies but good science with good data helps to evaluate whether things are true.

This is exactly what I am trying to get across with this thread.

QUOTE="Ontariofarmer, post: 69894, member: 554"]One thing that I thought of when I saw this quote is something you said. Find a method and perfect it. Or you said something like that.
I think that video indicates a practiced method and verifies your advice as excellent. Do not be trying many methods and doing them poorly[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I was trying to show in my video, a perfect refined method. It shows my method, and the small details within my method that most people over look. It shows the perfected method that works for me.

Thanks,
Boswell

 

[DaveT1963]

I actually agree with you bobby - we hunt totally different and that is OK.

Not sure what bed theory you think I subscribe to? But yes I absolutely think deer bed and sleep I tend to try to find out where they do that frequently and then set up. Do I think they bed in the same exact bed - no I don't, at least not often enough to capitalize on it. Do I think bucks have core areas that shrink as they get older - yep I sure do. Do I think they use the same "bedding areas" in their core areas 90% of the time (most seem to have anywhere from 1 to 5 or so bedding areas within their core areas down this way) yep I do. And there are a few telegraphy studies to bear out. Do I think they use the same breeding/bedding patterns during the rut from year to year - yes sir I do. I tend to hunt travel routes during the pre rut and doe bedding during the rut.

I also think it is important to point out that there is a big difference between hunting just any deer and targeting older mature bucks. The older boys usually don't just amble around for hours on end - so yes I tend to set up close to where I think they spend the majority of their time during daylight hours..... core areas. Thus being stealthy is paramount. When you approach hunting mature bucks in their core area, all the small details are in play and making a lot of noise while setting up is a good way to turn them nocturnal. But hey I am not going to knock anyone for doing it their way if it is working for them. I have pretty good success getting set up on them.... having everything line up perfectly and actually getting an arrow through that buck is a different story - I am probably close to 10-15% at best there.

Like I originally stated I made the change because I was within 25 yards of two pretty nice bucks that pegged me. I 100% believe my aider movement caused them to alert based off body language, wind direction and through knowledge of the thermals at work that day. I am very confident noise was not what caused them to alert. I made a change and so far it is doing exactly what I want - no deer since has busted me due to my sticks aiders moving.

I get the feeling you believe I don't pay attention to safety or think things through. My job for the last 30 years is to plan and conduct root cause analysis, develop counter measures and an action plan, and then execute. Despite how it may appear, I think everything through. I feel pretty confident in what I observed, what I deduced the problem to be, and the corrective actions I applied towards that problem to mitigate it in the future.... and now I have validated that with several weeks of tree time.



In the end I hope we both have successful seasons and accomplish our goals, no matter how different they might be.

 

[Erniepower]

Huck... I'm still not wearing crocs.

I challenge you to get a pair lined with fur and wear them when taking out the trash or checking the mail. You may never post your appreciation for them on Saddlehunter but you'd be in love nonetheless.

There is nothing better on an elk hunt than taking off your boots, slipping into a soft fury pair of crocs and sitting by a fire eating dinner listening to everyone tell stories of the days adventures.

Would it be as good without the crocs? I don't know if I'm willing to find out......

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[huck72412]

There is nothing better on an elk hunt than taking off your boots, slipping into a soft fury pair of crocs and sitting by a fire eating dinner listening to everyone tell stories of the days adventures.

Would it be as good without the crocs? I don't know if I'm willing to find out......

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Crocs are amazing. I'm waiting for you to invent the ClimbingCroc......where you incorporate a spur on the instep.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

We all have different methods and goals and that is OK with me. I try to preface all I share and post as this is what works for me and I hope it does not come across as "this is the right way.” There is no one single right way.

This is precisely why I visit this site as often as I do. I'm always looking for others viewpoints and trying to see how I might (or might not) apply them in my own ways. As you point out, we all approach things differently whether it be due to personal preference or the differences in the areas we hunt. The end goal for all of us is to make ourselves better hunters. For that I thank all of you for your inputs.

 

[swampsnyper]

Crocs are amazing. I'm waiting for you to invent the ClimbingCroc......where you incorporate a spur on the instep.

They would be better than the big insulated moon boots for stealthiness. Insulated boots are so noisy! Like wearing clown shoes.

 

[DwadeCham]

I went with an aider only climbing method this year and while it can be cumbersome at times I live that when at hunting height there is nothing at the base of the tree. And when I rapell down I only stop for my platform. Pretty fun stuff.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

 

[DaveT1963]

I made another video yesterday to answer some of the questions/concerns raised from my helium update video. I want to add one more advantage, IMO, for using a solo foot aider. Beside tipping off bucks to dangling aiders on windy days it also reduces the scent foot print because you take it up with you and put it in the pack at hunting height. SO I actually reduced two potential tip offs to buck with one change - if that means just one buck isn't tipped off by my foot aiders, for sight or scent reasons, hey that's a good thing.

Bobby and I go at each other from time to time - I don't think that makes us bad people - what is shows is that we both believe passionately in the way we do things. What is common to both of us is that we want to share what works for us with new folks. And if you grew up hunting back when I did, information was hard to come by, so despite differences, the main thing everyone needs to keep in mind is the FREE information shared.

Speaking for myself, I am old, fat and hunt a particular way for particular animals on 100% highly pressured public land - thus my system has evolved around those parameters. My way is certainly not "the best way" or even the one most should follow. When you focus on hunting specific animals it gets technical and limits encounters/shooting opportunities. I have not released an arrow on a buck in two seasons now. I could have killed 15 or so nice bucks 110-130 inch bucks, but choose to let them walk to hunt in a season or two. For several years I was pursuing a buck called stickers. This year I have two bucks that score very well I just don't talk about it much because it draws a lot of attention when I do (people evading the public lands I hunt). So I put a ton of effort into getting into remote areas and very tight to THAT buck's core areas. I may have one or two at most opportunities before they are on to the fact that someone is hunting them. So I take every precaution I think is necessary to ensure I reduce the potential of blowing that first encounter. That is why my systems has evolved the way it does. But is it not for everyone - there are many days I sit and do not encounter any deer because it is a specific set up for a specific wind, for a specific mature buck that doesn't tend to hang out where the majority of deer do. It is a pretty solitary approach. My system and equipment is geared to that goal.

Bobby may have a totally different approach and his system evolves around that method and I am sure many will find rewarding and effective. Now you can look through a plethora of information/techniques and decide what will or will not work for you.

..

 

[redsquirrel]

I made another video yesterday to answer some of the questions/concerns raised from my helium update video. I want to add one more advantage, IMO, for using a solo foot aider. Beside tipping off bucks to dangling aiders on windy days it also reduces the scent foot print because you take it up with you and put it in the pack at hunting height. SO I actually reduced two potential tip offs to buck with one change - if that means just one buck isn't tipped off by my foot aiders, for sight or scent reasons, hey that's a good thing.

Bobby and I go at each other from time to time - I don't think that makes us bad people - what is shows is that we both believe passionately in the way we do things. What is common to both of us is that we want to share what works for us with new folks. And if you grew up hunting back when I did, information was hard to come by, so despite differences, the main thing everyone needs to keep in mind is the FREE information shared.

Speaking for myself, I am old, fat and hunt a particular way for particular animals on 100% highly pressured public land - thus my system has evolved around those parameters. My way is certainly not "the best way" or even the one most should follow. When you focus on hunting specific animals it gets technical and limits encounters/shooting opportunities. I have not released an arrow on a buck in two seasons now. I could have killed 15 or so nice bucks 110-130 inch bucks, but choose to let them walk to hunt in a season or two. For several years I was pursuing a buck called stickers. This year I have two bucks that score very well I just don't talk about it much because it draws a lot of attention when I do (people evading the public lands I hunt). So I put a ton of effort into getting into remote areas and very tight to THAT buck's core areas. I may have one or two at most opportunities before they are on to the fact that someone is hunting them. So I take every precaution I think is necessary to ensure I reduce the potential of blowing that first encounter. That is why my systems has evolved the way it does. But is it not for everyone - there are many days I sit and do not encounter any deer because it is a specific set up for a specific wind, for a specific mature buck that doesn't tend to hang out where the majority of deer do. It is a pretty solitary approach. My system and equipment is geared to that goal.

Bobby may have a totally different approach and his system evolves around that method and I am sure many will find rewarding and effective. Now you can look through a plethora of information/techniques and decide what will or will not work for you.

..

Great post Dave. I have said this before but it bears repeating. It is easy to pigeon hole tactics when you are talking on the internet or watching them on TV. In reality we are all hunting the same species of animal in vastly different terrains. I live just over an hour from where I grew up and the terrain goes from flat thick and swampy where I grew up to lots of open hardwoods and hilly where I am now. The deer have to adapt to different terrains to survive and us hunters need to adapt to the areas we are hunting to be successful. It is great to hear everyone's tactics and how they work for them but in the end one needs to adapt those tactics to their situation.

 

[g2outdoors]

Great post Dave. You make a great point: THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY to hunt these animals.

Use every idea possible to create the best system for your needs. Then when you encounter a different circumstance, find some new ideas and use those.

That's what I do. I'm not smart enough to come up with my own ideas, so I steal you guys'. I'm the biggest idea thief on this forum.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

 

[DaveT1963]

Great post Dave. You make a great point: THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY to hunt these animals.

Use every idea possible to create the best system for your needs. Then when you encounter a different circumstance, find some new ideas and use those.

That's what I do. I'm not smart enough to come up with my own ideas, so I steal you guys'. I'm the biggest idea thief on this forum.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

A wise man once said "There is NOTHING new under the Sun" we are all creatures that take from the past and adapt it for present use.... i.e. idea thiefs

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I made another video yesterday to answer some of the questions/concerns raised from my helium update video. I want to add one more advantage, IMO, for using a solo foot aider. Beside tipping off bucks to dangling aiders on windy days it also reduces the scent foot print because you take it up with you and put it in the pack at hunting height. SO I actually reduced two potential tip offs to buck with one change - if that means just one buck isn't tipped off by my foot aiders, for sight or scent reasons, hey that's a good thing.

Bobby and I go at each other from time to time - I don't think that makes us bad people - what is shows is that we both believe passionately in the way we do things. What is common to both of us is that we want to share what works for us with new folks. And if you grew up hunting back when I did, information was hard to come by, so despite differences, the main thing everyone needs to keep in mind is the FREE information shared.

Speaking for myself, I am old, fat and hunt a particular way for particular animals on 100% highly pressured public land - thus my system has evolved around those parameters. My way is certainly not "the best way" or even the one most should follow. When you focus on hunting specific animals it gets technical and limits encounters/shooting opportunities. I have not released an arrow on a buck in two seasons now. I could have killed 15 or so nice bucks 110-130 inch bucks, but choose to let them walk to hunt in a season or two. For several years I was pursuing a buck called stickers. This year I have two bucks that score very well I just don't talk about it much because it draws a lot of attention when I do (people evading the public lands I hunt). So I put a ton of effort into getting into remote areas and very tight to THAT buck's core areas. I may have one or two at most opportunities before they are on to the fact that someone is hunting them. So I take every precaution I think is necessary to ensure I reduce the potential of blowing that first encounter. That is why my systems has evolved the way it does. But is it not for everyone - there are many days I sit and do not encounter any deer because it is a specific set up for a specific wind, for a specific mature buck that doesn't tend to hang out where the majority of deer do. It is a pretty solitary approach. My system and equipment is geared to that goal.

Bobby may have a totally different approach and his system evolves around that method and I am sure many will find rewarding and effective. Now you can look through a plethora of information/techniques and decide what will or will not work for you.

..

A good and gracious post by a gentleman.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

A wise man once said "There is NOTHING new under the Sun" we are all creatures that take from the past and adapt it for present use.... i.e. idea thiefs

I know who that guy is and he is wise

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Great post Dave. I have said this before but it bears repeating. It is easy to pigeon hole tactics when you are talking on the internet or watching them on TV. In reality we are all hunting the same species of animal in vastly different terrains. I live just over an hour from where I grew up and the terrain goes from flat thick and swampy where I grew up to lots of open hardwoods and hilly where I am now. The deer have to adapt to different terrains to survive and us hunters need to adapt to the areas we are hunting to be successful. It is great to hear everyone's tactics and how they work for them but in the end one needs to adapt those tactics to their situation.

I like the spirit of your post Dave.
What makes a difference in how we hunt?
How much time and money we have also makes a huge difference to how we might hunt. Who we hunt with too.
How much experience we have.
How good are we at making modifications safely and well. What tools do we have for modification.
I have the opportunity to hunt a variety of terrain except mountains. So I like to listen to a variety of people.
Our health has an effect on how we hunt. And for some safety has to be super, super, super important... like Bobby because he represents a company selling a product. I like aiders and will take the risk of using them. It is probably not wise for Bobby to use them because he needs to be a good example of a super safe hunter.

I would love to try SRT. I physically cannot. I would like to use spurs. I cannot because of a limited area that I can use them in. I think Wild Edge Steps seem great - but I have an impatient type 1 personality.... probably a poor fit for me. So I like those muddy cam cleats. I orders some for my shortened Dave T sticks

Do I hunt private or public land. How many other hunters are around. What tactics do they use.

When I am older and decrepit I may enjoy a permanent stand with a lazy boy. Sounds like a guidos web at ground level. I already do that for turkeys... deer are next and I will still be a saddle hunter

Hunting is a lot like farming which is why I like hunting. A lot of ideas, a lot of different situations, and a lot of right ways to do things and some dumb ways to do things.

 

[Boudreaux]

Bobby and I go at each other from time to time - I don't think that makes us bad people - what is shows is that we both believe passionately in the way we do things. What is common to both of us is that we want to share what works for us with new folks.
Bobby may have a totally different approach and his system evolves around that method and I am sure many will find rewarding and effective. Now you can look through a plethora of information/techniques and decide what will or will not work for you.

It is easy to pigeon hole tactics when you are talking on the internet or watching them on TV. In reality we are all hunting the same species of animal in vastly different terrains.

This is exactly why I started this thread, I wanted to get people thinking about their set ups, hunting styles and decisions made. I just wanted to create more of the conversation.

Thanks,
Boswell

 

[Sipsey]

This is exactly why I started this thread, I wanted to get people thinking about their set ups, hunting styles and decisions made. I just wanted to create more of the conversation.

Thanks,
Boswell

 

[Sipsey]

I would venture to say that none of us here hunt the same way we did when we first started pursuing deer. I used to read every bow hunting article in print till all the stories began to recycle. I've sifted through research, watched with great interest the early research by James Kroll, and others. Bought hardback and paperback books by accomplished hunters. I still either modify or tweak with equipment or methods almost every year. If we're not learning, we're not paying attention. This is a great site for sharing and learning!

 

[Been Dare]

Interesting topic on sight....and what they recognize as out of place. Of course they key on any movement.
Its all degrees. One thing is for sure, Mature whitetails are in a whole different category than younger deer and other species such as elk and hogs.

I've had a couple interesting run ins with big whitetails....and now live for these encounters. Its incredible how well they know their territory...and if anything is out of place or suspicious. Will a glint off a stick....or tail of an Aider spook them? Probably not a 1-2 yr old whitetail....but a mature buck- possible.

Ex; I was hunting a remote pasture draw the big bucks and some does use as a travel route. You typically don't see many deer...sometimes none. But in the rut you can see a big one. There is almost zero human activity back in this area, mid Nov. There is an old Juniper hedge row with a good trail along it. I set up in one of the thick junipers...not high but good cover with the wind perfect. There were a dozen tall pencil sized sticks out in front of my stand that would have screwed up a clear shot so I cut them off. FWIW, I am a minimalist trimmer....

Well right after first light this big 160-170 class buck comes strolling right toward me....and he stops staring at where I trimmed those twigs. He stood there for maybe a minute assessing the situation...not alarmed...but deciding. He didn't see or smell me. I'm convinced he knew something was different....but what impressed me even more (as they have to see things changing all the time) he reasoned that this change was one posing a potential danger to him. So he turned and went right back the way he came.

 

[ricky racer]

Hang a trail camera near any trail that deer use. You'll get plenty of pictures of deer checking out the camera, even a dark ops camera with no illumination of any sort visible.
Deer notice it almost every time even if you think it's well hidden. They know it's something that wasn't there before.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Interesting topic on sight....and what they recognize as out of place. Of course they key on any movement.
Its all degrees. One thing is for sure, Mature whitetails are in a whole different category than younger deer and other species such as elk and hogs.

I've had a couple interesting run ins with big whitetails....and now live for these encounters. Its incredible how well they know their territory...and if anything is out of place or suspicious. Will a glint off a stick....or tail of an Aider spook them? Probably not a 1-2 yr old whitetail....but a mature buck- possible.

Ex; I was hunting a remote pasture draw the big bucks and some does use as a travel route. You typically don't see many deer...sometimes none. But in the rut you can see a big one. There is almost zero human activity back in this area, mid Nov. There is an old Juniper hedge row with a good trail along it. I set up in one of the thick junipers...not high but good cover with the wind perfect. There were a dozen tall pencil sized sticks out in front of my stand that would have screwed up a clear shot so I cut them off. FWIW, I am a minimalist trimmer....

Well right after first light this big 160-170 class buck comes strolling right toward me....and he stops staring at where I trimmed those twigs. He stood there for maybe a minute assessing the situation...not alarmed...but deciding. He didn't see or smell me. I'm convinced he knew something was different....but what impressed me even more (as they have to see things changing all the time) he reasoned that this change was one posing a potential danger to him. So he turned and went right back the way he came.

Who knows maybe he smelled your scent where you cut them or your scent on the trail camera
I would expect that is more likely since deer smell like a blood hound and see poorly especially if the object is stationary
I guess since we cannot talk to the deer I would look to the science that Boudreaux espoused to explain deer behaviour

We should ask did the deer smell something first. Did the deer hear something next. Did the deer see movement next and last did the deer see something stationary
- the least likely option. Unless the object shines or is blue But the deer are exercising their right to remain silent on the issue

I have a science degree and trust good science. And I think the science is good.

Then again I am not speaking from years of observation.
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