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Sticks, Aiders, Saddles vs the deer’s senses.

Ontariofarmer said:
We should ask did the deer smell something first. Did the deer hear something next. Did the deer see movement next and last did the deer see something stationary
- the least likely option. Unless the object shines or is blue ...
Click to expand...

Agreed on the science....and of course a deers sense of smell is its primary defense mechanism.

Our problem, the science cannot tell you what a 4 1/2 yr old deer knows....that a 2 year old doesn't. I think the difference is "Reasoning". So when the 2 yr old sees a couple bushes trimmed....meh...no big deal. That 4 1/2 yr old Ks buck knows right off....and can reason enough to act on it. I haven't had the pleasure of many big buck interactions...[and the ones i've had didn't turn out well!] but the guys i know have....and those big bucks can sense when things are different.

Heck I just got back from hunting the late muley season in AZ setting on water. I had some layup shots on small bucks and one 140- 150"...and would have shot that one if I was hunting with my recurve...but i digress. Sure the does and bucks were a little wary...but they still came to water. The big bucks [170"+] would pick up that blind 100yds out [though it was incredibly brushed in] and just wouldn't come in. They would stand out there staring for 10-15 min [good cross wind]

I'm not saying these deer are rocket scientists.....but the older ones are so in tune with their environment its crazy....
 
Interesting read. I thought your stalking with a bow was cool.

I assume you are Warren


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Tried this today carried one aider and used my tree tether as a loop and kept flipping it up over the next stick. It worked ok. I did have to go around branches so that sucked. I should have picked another tree but I kept climbing going around the branches not hooked to the tree. I know stupid but I got up and down safely. Won’t do that again but I do like using the muddy rope tied to the aider. @g2outdoors you won’t have a problem flipping the rope over the top step of your next stick I used 1 big loop.


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Interesting read! I enjoy reading different perspectives that don't necessarily line up with mine, but that's the beauty of this. You get to do what you want to do, I get to do what I want to do.

One thing to preface, I am not a "trophy" hunter. I am an opportunist hunter. Yes, I will give certain deer a pass at certain times of the year, but that's all situational. I will shoot a deer with a full size body majority of the times. Not always, but most of the time.


In my (limited) experience, as stated above, I have found that the deer I hunt rely on scent and sight for their two greatest forms of defense. I find that a deer's sight is not as important as their sense of smell. I have had numerous deer look right at me while hunting and should I be perfectly still and not screw anything up, they typically stick around. On the opposite side of that, I have had many deer not see me at all, my wind swap and they're gone. I don't apply all the rules of scent control. Not because I don't think it is beneficial, but because I don't want to get that much into it. I do my best to hunt the wind 100% of the time. I may not factor in certain wind streams, the way my scent travels, swirls, etc. I do my best to hunt the primary wind direction and try not to educate many deer. My biggest focus is picking out the right tree. I always try to find a tree that is down wind of my intended targets (perceived) path. I also try to find me a tree that has some type cover either in it or directly behind it. My favorite trees are trees with limbs. I love to be right above them. Even if they're only 12 or so feet high. I find that the "right tree" helps break up your outline and conceal your silhouette. This doesn't negate the necessity to not move while they're looking around, but it definitely helps me blend in.

Thanks for the thread and topic.

Daniel
 
Been Dare said:
Our problem, the science cannot tell you what a 4 1/2 yr old deer knows....that a 2 year old doesn't. I think the difference is "Reasoning". So when the 2 yr old sees a couple bushes trimmed....meh...no big deal. That 4 1/2 yr old Ks buck knows right off....and can reason enough to act on it. I haven't had the pleasure of many big buck interactions...[and the ones i've had didn't turn out well!] but the guys i know have....and those big bucks can sense when things are different.

I'm not saying these deer are rocket scientists.....but the older ones are so in tune with their environment its crazy....
Click to expand...

This was my point exactly. Good post.

I think a mature buck will notice something is different. Maybe he doesn't know they are climbing sticks, or aiders...well of course he doesn't...but he may associate change in his environment as a threat. I think this is especially true on pressured public land.
 
I personally don't think deer reason much, I believe most of the time they just react. They smell human, human is a predator they react. I also think they know their living rooms pretty well. They see things that are out of place. Strap blowing in the wind draws a bucks attention, he knows it is not suppose to be there, he reacts by altering his course or investigating. The ones that choose the second option (investigate suspicious strap blowing in the wind) usually get shot and thus they don't live long. The ones that react by sneaking away from visual danger live. i.e. they associate sight, sounds and smells to danger and react real time.

I don't think they use brain power to make logically decisions - if they did you would never see a buck walk across a field in broad daylight - which they do. They would never enter a point of trees where they have been surprised/almost shot before - which they do. You would never see a buck drop his guard and come into a bean field before night fall - which they do.

Yes they probably get more reserved and shrink their "stomping grounds, as they age - but my theory is the ones that do age just happen to have habits/nuisances, or they live in an area with little to no hunting pressure, and that is what has kept them alive over the years. Of course any deer will learn to avoid areas if there is constant human pressure, or any predator for that matter. But IMO most mature bucks just happen by their very nature to avoid high traffic/predator areas, tend to be loners and suspicious by nature, may not be as aggressive as others, and may not be as horny (rut crazy) as other bucks and thus they don't expose themselves as often. And buck to doe ratios have a lot to do with how much risk a mature buck will take during the rut. If he has exclusive rights to an adequate number of does he may NEVER chase/cruise during daylight.
 
Yeah, i dunno if its the ability to reason....or just incredibly fine tuned instinct.

So heres one.....ever had a buck walking down a trail scanning and then just look up at you- spooking instantly? I have...... on hard hunted WIHA public ground in Kansas. I swear I never moved...and I know that buck [nuthin special] couldn't smell me or my path to the tree. I checked my gear to make sure nothing glinting, etc...didn't see anything like a rope tail swinging that would give me away. The only thing I can think of is my silhouette, which in that tree was exposed.

I try to set up in the crotches or forks of bigger trees...or with a background just for that reason..... so i'm not silhouetted...but that buck that spooked must have recognized the danger of a big ole blob in a tree, Is that reason or instinct?
 
Been Dare said:
Yeah, i dunno if its the ability to reason....or just incredibly fine tuned instinct.

So heres one.....ever had a buck walking down a trail scanning and then just look up at you- spooking instantly? I have...... on hard hunted WIHA public ground in Kansas. I swear I never moved...and I know that buck [nuthin special] couldn't smell me or my path to the tree. I checked my gear to make sure nothing glinting, etc...didn't see anything like a rope tail swinging that would give me away. The only thing I can think of is my silhouette, which in that tree was exposed.

I try to set up in the crotches or forks of bigger trees...or with a background just for that reason..... so i'm not silhouetted...but that buck that spooked must have recognized the danger of a big ole blob in a tree, Is that reason or instinct?
Click to expand...
Instinct
 
This thread is why I keep coming back here over and over. I find more times than not there is something to be learned or at least given serious consideration every day. It's almost information overload, for a simpleton like me.

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Ok I got one.
Hunting public land in Ms. Swamp land. Set up in a lone wolf assault with lone wolf sticks about 18ft up. Tall hardwoods. Not much canopy to hide in unless you are way up and that’s not good with a Tradbow. I heard rattling. Then see a monsta buck walking away about 60 yards. Then catch a respectable 8pt coming from the same direction right to me from my left. I’m guessing they were fighting because they came from the same direction of the rattling sounds I heard. It wasn’t a death battle, just some sparing.
I’m froze as he walks right to my tree from my left and stops 5 yards from being under my left foot. He looks back toward where the bigger buck was and takes a slight step that way giving me enough of a broadside shot to be good. He is locked on that area where the bigger buck was. Maybe he was still there but all my focus was on this one almost under me. I was thinking this is perfect. It’s meant to be! I start drawing my recurve and he freaks out! Bounds off 30 yards, turns and looks at me. He is on high alert and there is no way I could make a kill shot with a slow recurve that far. A compound, I would have shot. So I watch him head bob. Move around and eventually circle me to catch my wind. He had me pegged.
I’m thinking, what happened? I didn’t stand up to shoot in fear of making noise. I was paying attention to noise as I drew and everything was silent. He was looking away and focusing on something else. All I can figure is the sun was at my back and it was an all day sit. It was around midday so maybe my shadow spooked him. That’s the only thing I can figure. It was so perfect and fell apart so quickly. I sat till dark in disbelief.
 
There are inate insticts and learned behaviors that can become instinctive. Instinct is something learned to such a degree that it requires no conscious thought to act upon. Years ago I trained in various martial arts. One teacher said, “As you learn, you think before you move. With practice you think as you move. With time, one acts, then afterwards thinks about their actions. An unnatural silence or sound, shape or scent is enough to trigger the survival reflex in many animals, and people.
Some old Indians could listen to nearby birds and other animal chatter and movement and “know” the source that caused the telegraphed vocalizations, some quite distant. If we lived 24/7 in the wild, our instincts would be honed, also.
Having said all that, everyone & everything are not “wired” the same, an example;
F6ACC9EA-9883-4183-A142-38517288F2C7.jpeg
 
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