For those that use the grade 8 bolts, what are some specs for weight. I know they are used for automotive use, and I read that they have 150,000 psi tensil strength. So what amount of weight would cause them to bend or break?? I am a big man (320#) and am wanting to move to bolts as a climbing method, but want to make sure that I will be safe . Any thoughts on this is appreciated.
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Grade 8 bolts questions?
- Thread starter redhawk
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PJC
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- Dec 26, 2016
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- 2,539
I’m 270 and never think twice about them failing me. I’m more concerned with the holes in the tree elongating from the weight being applied on the outside of the bolt.
One thing to be careful of too when using bolts is that you don’t lean away while grasping a bolt. You can pull it out of the tree.
That being said, it’s one of my favorite ways to climb to hunt.
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One thing to be careful of too when using bolts is that you don’t lean away while grasping a bolt. You can pull it out of the tree.
That being said, it’s one of my favorite ways to climb to hunt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PJC
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2016
- Messages
- 2,539
I space them so they’re comfortable for me to reach on each step, both height wise and side to side wise. I don’t line them up the center. No way. Side to side like you said. Not at 90 degrees but more like a 45 or 60, depending on the size of the tree. Also, be careful, if you slip and fall up against a bolt or screw in step, they can rip into you and gut you like a fish. If they are off to your sides, you’ll be less likely to encounter one in case of a slip and fall.
I use a lineman’s belt on my saddle or harness to allow two handed use during the drilling and climbing. I never rely on hugging the tree to keep me safe.
On preset trees (which 90% of the time if I’m using bolts they are pre set) I mark up the bark enough around the holes to make it easier to find them if I’m not leaving the bolts in the tree. I can usually know right where the hole is but you’d be surprised how hard they are to see if your not looking straight into them.
I drill straight in. Some guys angle the holes slightly downward but I find it unnecessary. In fact, the holes can fill with water and when the temps drop you’ll have ice in the holes and you’ll have to redrill to get your bolts in. Again, if you are leaving bolts in the tree, that won’t matter.
I use a cordless drill for presets. WAY faster than a hand drill and you won’t get worn out so fast if you have several to do.
All that said, I find bolts to be easy to climb, but as I mentioned before, if you ever get in a situation where you’re on the bottom side of a lean in a tree, be careful you don’t pull the bolt out while climbing. Maybe in those situations a downward angle while drilling would be helpful.
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I use a lineman’s belt on my saddle or harness to allow two handed use during the drilling and climbing. I never rely on hugging the tree to keep me safe.
On preset trees (which 90% of the time if I’m using bolts they are pre set) I mark up the bark enough around the holes to make it easier to find them if I’m not leaving the bolts in the tree. I can usually know right where the hole is but you’d be surprised how hard they are to see if your not looking straight into them.
I drill straight in. Some guys angle the holes slightly downward but I find it unnecessary. In fact, the holes can fill with water and when the temps drop you’ll have ice in the holes and you’ll have to redrill to get your bolts in. Again, if you are leaving bolts in the tree, that won’t matter.
I use a cordless drill for presets. WAY faster than a hand drill and you won’t get worn out so fast if you have several to do.
All that said, I find bolts to be easy to climb, but as I mentioned before, if you ever get in a situation where you’re on the bottom side of a lean in a tree, be careful you don’t pull the bolt out while climbing. Maybe in those situations a downward angle while drilling would be helpful.
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Not sure any amount of data is out there to support if it’s safe for how we use bolts at the weight you listed.
I feel your best way Of knowing and being comfortable using them is to go buy a couple 6” grade8 3/8” bolts and drilling a few holes at just above ground level and test them real world.
Buying a couple bolts and possibly a bit wouldn’t be that much money to find out if it will work for you.
I feel your best way Of knowing and being comfortable using them is to go buy a couple 6” grade8 3/8” bolts and drilling a few holes at just above ground level and test them real world.
Buying a couple bolts and possibly a bit wouldn’t be that much money to find out if it will work for you.
I climbed them and bounced on them at 298. I don’t think you will have any problems. You may want to bounce test all your bolts from ground level but manufacturing defects aside they should hold you without issue. I wouldn’t go longer than 6” bolts. Also being a heavier guy you’ll want to wear a stiff soled boot during the initial drilling.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but at your weight I’d be cautious of ANY lightweight climbing method for getting up a tree. Right or wrong, almost all of this stuff is built around a 200lb person. You’re at or over the weight limits of most of them. It doesn’t mean that some of them can’t work for you if conditions are perfect. It just means the margin for error becomes very very slim.
If you’re going to look into bolts, one thing you might consider is that the weakest part of those bolts is the threaded area/spot between the threads and the smooth part of the bolt. If they break, that’s usually where it happens. If you’re light footed, and thoughtful and careful, you’re probably fine. If not, you may want to buy 7 or 8” bolts, and cut off the threads and get the bolt back to 6”. Don’t use a grinder to cut, use a band saw. Keep heat down.
I can’t speak from experience of using the stuff at 300+lbs, I’ve just watched a bunch of big folks struggle with lightweight stuff, and I’ve seen the testing results on the bolts. They are not as strong as I would have expected.
If you’re going to look into bolts, one thing you might consider is that the weakest part of those bolts is the threaded area/spot between the threads and the smooth part of the bolt. If they break, that’s usually where it happens. If you’re light footed, and thoughtful and careful, you’re probably fine. If not, you may want to buy 7 or 8” bolts, and cut off the threads and get the bolt back to 6”. Don’t use a grinder to cut, use a band saw. Keep heat down.
I can’t speak from experience of using the stuff at 300+lbs, I’ve just watched a bunch of big folks struggle with lightweight stuff, and I’ve seen the testing results on the bolts. They are not as strong as I would have expected.
Shear strength on a 3/8 grade 8 is roughly 5000 pounds. When climbing with bolts you're applying the load in shear..... Tensile strength is the force to pull the bolt apart......
@kyler1945 the threads are the weak point. My ezcut drill goes well past the threads so it’s really a non issue if the bolt is fully inserted. I personally feel that for the 300+ pound person bolts are probably the safest lightweight climbing system along with wild edge steps. Look at the hardware on these climbing sticks. Especially the ones with folding steps. Tree species may become a concern and some really spongy wood probably needs to be avoided. If someone was really concerned I’m pretty sure there were some 1/2” treehopper bits made that I occasionally see for sale.
Tensile matters for bolts because you’re pulling or pushing the bolt with the threads and a nut. Obviously for our purposes we don’t use a nut. But the shear strength does not take into account the threaded area, the measurement is of the smooth part of the bolt. The threaded area will not handle the same amount of force without bending or breaking. It’s an important detail worth adding to what you’re saying here. Folks bend grade 8’s climbing with some regularity.
Please use caution. Odds are you’ll be fine if you’re careful and thoughtful, but I don’t want large numbers being thrown around to give you a false sense of security.
Please use caution. Odds are you’ll be fine if you’re careful and thoughtful, but I don’t want large numbers being thrown around to give you a false sense of security.
I think if your even remotely questioning the safety of these 3/8” bolts I agree look into 1/2” bolts and test at ground level to confirm.
The threaded area of the bolt is inside the trunk...... The shank it what's exposed and subject to the shear load....
That’s correct. The original treehopper bit didn’t drill as deep and the end of the threads were on the edge of the hole. That’s why they originally recommended buying 8” bolts and cutting the threaded section off.
The interpretation of that math could get you in trouble. As will the ‘I’m 300lbs and I’ve never broke one.’ Comments.
The way these numbers are calculated, and then measured, has very little to do with how we use the bolts.
Yes, on paper there appears to be a large safety factor. But those numbers are not calculated on a bolt stuck in a wallered out hole in a soft tree. The variables of the equation get more complicated and, well, variable.
8 Bolts have been used for a very long time by a lot of people. I would use them without hesitation. But I weigh 190lbs, and I’m very careful and thoughtful in the way that I climb.
The point I’m generally trying to get across is that you shouldn’t trust what some guy on the internet tells you. More specifically to you, given your mass, the margin for error of what some guy on the internet tells you is much, much smaller than you might think.
I’m not trying to tell you not to use bolts. I’m just trying to help you think about the decision properly, so you don’t get hurt because you listened to some guy on the internet. I hope people do the same with me - I want my safety to be my responsibility, and I want as much information from qualified sources as I can get my hands on.
I would suggest you try 1/2” bolts and do not cut them.
Don’t take mine or anyone else word on here as it will work for me because of some numbers thrown out there. This way of climbing is a great method but bolts of any grade are not designed for this.
It’s nice to come ask for advice I have and still do but I spend a lot of time testing at ground level for all the methods I try.
At the end of the day it’s your safety at risk so only you can determine if it’s truly safe 20’ feet up a tree.