Bad Penetration.....Again

[Jason Wandling]

Message me if you want and I’ll go over my arrow setup with you. I shot a buck this year with a scapula entry and femur exit. I’ve killed 5 with this setup and great results.

 

[GCTerpfan]

Hmmm...several people have mentioned arrow tune but, I have never seen a poorly tuned arrow cause arrow failure. Sure, a bad tune will decrease penetration but short of shooting into a solid wall you shouldn't see your inserts being shoved back into your arrows like that. My guess is something is going on with your arrows or arrow/insert combo. The poor penetration is a result of the energy you are losing shoving the insert back the shaft.

But my experience is limited to trad bows so there may be something I'm missing. @Nutterbuster, ever see this happen to arrows in your bow shop days?

Edit: I also have no idea how you shot through that doe without getting both lungs, or how she lived that long with a hole through both lungs.

 

[will4554]

I have seen and heard of this on a lot of FMJ's. I will beat this horse some more... Even 200 spine arrows are available. No reason for anyone not to shoot a heavier arrow and put everything upfront. Just my opinion. My Camry gets me a to b, but I wouldn't choose it for a kamikaze mission, or something like that

 

[Weldabeast]

I imagine if the arrow is coming in semi sideways and the shock of the mechanical deploying puts tons of pressure. The broad head would stick in and the arrow is acting as a long lever

 

[kestep72]

So when building Fmj with hit system you have to use the little stone that comes with them to tapper the inside of the arrow before inserting. This helps with field point and broad head contact.
mad for mechanical heads vs fixed blades I shoot both out of my set up very well and they hit I. The same spot out to 60.
I also work in an archery shop and shoot a well tuned bow. You can group arrows even with your rest set with arrow point out or in or up or down, that does mean it’s a good tune.
My set up is 59.8#, 27.5” draw, VAP 450 75gr outsert 100 grain grim reaper (I quit rage last year due to issues) flex fletch 300 vain in three, nockturnal nocks and VAP 450 75qr with 85qr slick trick standered heat vain in four fletch. Both weigh between 395 and 400 total and 15%foc. No blood trail issues with either. The slick trick had better Than a lot I got when shooting rage.

 

[kestep72]

Oops I shot victory light nocks on the fixed blade arrow to add back weight to the build.

 

[Jason Wandling]

300 spine gold tip velocity. 40 grain FACT weight. 125 grain Magnus Snuffer. 455 total weight, 15% FOC. 30 yard shot steep angle. Scapula entry and femur exit. No damage to the head. 50 yard recovery.

 

[Kurt]

Hmmm...several people have mentioned arrow tune but, I have never seen a poorly tuned arrow cause arrow failure. Sure, a bad tune will decrease penetration but short of shooting into a solid wall you shouldn't see your inserts being shoved back into your arrows like that. My guess is something is going on with your arrows or arrow/insert combo. The poor penetration is a result of the energy you are losing shoving the insert back the shaft.

But my experience is limited to trad bows so there may be something I'm missing. @Nutterbuster, ever see this happen to arrows in your bow shop days?

Edit: I also have no idea how you shot through that doe without getting both lungs, or how she lived that long with a hole through both lungs.

When I field dressed her the lung on the near side was much smaller and blackish to dark purple in color. The other side was pink and fresh. If you look at the entry and exit in the pics I posted, that arrow hit right in the pocket and exited 6 inches or so back. It looks like she was standing quartering to me, but she wasn't. Even if she ducked and turned away the angle would then be quartering away and the exit should be farther forward. I thought I may have hit the elbow and that caused the arrow to deflect back, but it I didn't touch it. She was definitely dead broadside. I was able to shoot some field points through paper. 10 shots. I'm no Levi Morgan but I've never seen anything like this before.

 

[Kurt]

Okay so like I said I'm no Levi Morgan I shot 10 shots from 6 ft with a field point numbered on the paper it's apparent that my form improved as I shot but I don't see how that paper results other than showing my inconsistent form would explain the gross penetration and the damage to the arrow shaft

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[nogoodhunter]

No. My season ended. Today was my last day to hunt the bow season. I will go back to fixed blades next year and chalk up the last 2 years of broadhead experimentation as a hard lesson learned. I'll look at different shafts and find me a good cut on contact or fixed position head to lead the way. As another person said I'll make sure its all in tune.

What size cut are those heads? The larger the cutting area of a mechanical the more kinetic energy it requires to function properly. I hunted a partial season with Rage heads. I didn't like their performance outside of how well the fly.

I went to a Grim Reaper in a 1 3/8" and have been pleased ever since. They're cheaper on initial purchase, cheaper to rebuild, and are a stouter head. I shoot stinger buzzcuts too.

And yes tuning could certainly be an issue. Check to make sure you dont have a knicked cable or string.

 

[Wirrex]

Okay so like I said I'm no Levi Morgan I shot 10 shots from 6 ft with a field point numbered on the paper it's apparent that my form improved as I shot but I don't see how that paper results other than showing my inconsistent form would explain the gross penetration and the damage to the arrow shaft

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I’m sure it’s a broadhead issue but seriously consider bareshaft then broadhead tuning once you go to fixed blades.

 

[ImThere]

I think your arrows are too light.


See you in a tree, Ricky

 

[Kurt]

I’m sure it’s a broadhead issue but seriously consider bareshaft then broadhead tuning once you go to fixed blades.

I think I'm going to purchase a dozen of the gold tips Hunter XT shafts in the proper spine I think I will purchase the components and assemble those arrows myself that way I can customize total Arrow weight and percentage front of Center. It also gives me a great excuse to buy the arrow cut off tool I've always wanted .I shot another five Arrows through paper and if anything my form gives me a high right tear for a left-hander. I would have to say in my opinion even though the holes are not perfect I don't believe that Bow tune is the issue. I will be looking for a cut on impact or fixed position head. My son when he was shooting his longbow I purchased some montec CSs. So I still have those I like that Broadhead. I will be looking at a cut on contact 2 Blade for my possible future also.

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[Kurt]

What size cut are those heads? The larger the cutting area of a mechanical the more kinetic energy it requires to function properly. I hunted a partial season with Rage heads. I didn't like their performance outside of how well the fly.

I went to a Grim Reaper in a 1 3/8" and have been pleased ever since. They're cheaper on initial purchase, cheaper to rebuild, and are a stouter head. I shoot stinger buzzcuts too.

And yes tuning could certainly be an issue. Check to make sure you dont have a knicked cable or string.

They're 2 inch cut

 

[weekender21]

They use the HIT insert. they're 340s and weigh in the 445-450 range. I hadn't shot it through paper in a while. The arrows come of clean and they hit the target straight. I shoot often and don't see any erratic arrow flight or feel any increase in vibration or hand shock. I'd be surprised if it's out of tune. I have work today but I'll set up to shoot through paper and I'll know by mid afternoon how that looks. As for spine they fall in with the 340s off the easton chart. It's not like I just pulled these arrows out of the basement and started hunting with them. I've been shooting them for a while, probably 7 years. Shot Maxima Red from CE before them. I'll also take it to the shop and have them take a look. I want to show them the arrows anyway.

Gotcha, I usually shoot the next stiffer spine on the Easton chart but if your draw weight, arrow length, and draw length are good on the chart then your arrows should be fine to shoot.

I’m assuming you haven’t been shooting that exact batch of a dozen arrows for seven years but if you were, I wouldn’t be surprised if that has something to do with it. I shoot standard FMJ’s with my recurve and have noticed “mushrooming” when I stump shoot.

I finally went back to Easton carbon Axis. Carbon is either broken or GTG, nothing in between. If you like the extra weight, try a stiffer spine with the 50 or 75 grain HIT inserts. I’m currently shooting 260 spine Axis (the stiffest available) with 75 grain brass insert and 100 grain BH. 532 grain total arrow weight. They fly awesome out of my compound and penetration is never an issue.

Confidence is everything and it might be time for you to change a few things. Good luck with your findings.


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[Buckhole75]

Just something to consider.If you are not getting a good tear flat footed on the ground Do you think it could be worse twisted out of a saddle and a little pumped with adrenaline.That arrow set up will shoot like a dart if tuned properly.As far as experience with that particular mechanical i have none . And even though i am not a huge fan mechanicals will do a good job for ya if on the right set up and you Stay away from the front shoulder.Good Luck

 

[nogoodhunter]

They're 2 inch cut

Reading your arrow weight and how that looks on paper(not terrible) i think your culprit is the BH cut is too large. The mechanical action of the BH(no matter the brand) requires energy and the blade's surface area require energy. I think you'll see better results with a smaller cutting head. A few 2" mechanical cutting heads require a MINIMUM of 65 ft-lbs of KE. You can use the info provided by the link to determine yours but thats my educated guess.

Calculating Compound Bow Kinetic Energy (KE) - Beginner's Guide

As simple as it gets: a beginner's guide to understanding and calculating the kinetic energy of compound bows.

bestcompoundbowsource.com

Kinetic Energy and Momentum Calculator | Realtree Camo

This Realtree calculator calculates your kinetic energy and momentum for you.

www.realtree.com

 

[Bwhana]

I think I'm going to purchase a dozen of the gold tips Hunter XT shafts in the proper spine I think I will purchase the components and assemble those arrows myself that way I can customize total Arrow weight and percentage front of Center. It also gives me a great excuse to buy the arrow cut off tool I've always wanted .I shot another five Arrows through paper and if anything my form gives me a high right tear for a left-hander. I would have to say in my opinion even though the holes are not perfect I don't believe that Bow tune is the issue. I will be looking for a cut on impact or fixed position head. My son when he was shooting his longbow I purchased some montec CSs. So I still have those I like that Broadhead. I will be looking at a cut on contact 2 Blade for my possible future also.

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Check out Ethics Archery inserts as you build new arrows. The Ranch Fairy uses them too. They are just a few minutes from my house and I plan to spend some time at their shop if I get back into archery next year instead of my xbow.

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American-made archery components - outserts, field points, inserts, nock bushings, broadhead adapters, footers, adjustable products, made in aluminum and stainless steel.

ethicsarchery.com

 

[weekender21]

Iron will now offers steel and titanium hit inserts one footers, pretty cool option. I’m using the iron will system for my next arrow build.

Premium Reinforced Hit System | Iron Will Outfitters

Explore our reinforced hit system at Iron Will Outfitters. Our hit system is designed to enhance penetration and deliver devastating results. Shop now.

www.ironwilloutfitters.com

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[Matki15]

Are you screwing the broadheads directly to the shaft? Easton makes broadhead adaptor rings meant to be used on micro diameter arrows that pretty much prevents the arrow from mushrooming like that. The other day I shot through my target, arrow deflected off of a root, and was found stuck in a fence, halfway down the broadhead. No damage to the FMJ shaft