• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Arrow setup to break heavy bone

You do you, boo.

I’ll build a worst case scenario setup and ensure a solid kill no matter what.


Oh, and I’ll take your dare.

You put a clavical or humorous in the direct path of your arrow setup.... and it won’t make it through to the vitals, I guarantee it.

My setup from the past season wouldn’t either...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So a lot of Ashbys testing was on great big buffaloe ribs and he got through with a 40 lb recurve at 650 grains. Well give him best case scenario and say by some miracle he hit 180 fps.
a448fc42d27d58271e576544484a28a1.jpg

Now we take a modern compound in all its glory and you want me to believe it wont make it past a whitetail humerus?
25c55592a96f3e2168d3946d6e3f3ac9.jpg

You wanna take a guess at how many back side humerus bones have been shattered on quartering away shots by people who didn't make it to the mythical 650 grains? Or does it only count if you take a quartering too angle you probably shouldnt be shooting anyways.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
We are building arrows for worst case scenarios. Animals move after we release the arrow. We cannot depend that our "bullseye" is gonna remain in the spot where we aimed. Eventually, if we shoot enough deer, we will hit heavy bone.
500 gr doesn't mean crap if the FOC sucks, or flight sucks, or broadhead quality sucks.
Im not calling anyone out, but some guys need to learn from Ashby. The guy has killed more critters than all of us put together. He has STUDIED arrow lethality for over 30 years. His bowhunting foundation exists solely for studying, and improving arrow performance.

Who is we and “worse case scenario” for what scenario? Worse case scenario on a deer and worse case scenario on a Cape buffalo are two completely different worst case scenarios. I enjoy a 365 day/year season in Hawaii and for the past 18 months my 532 grain 14% FOC slick trick tipped arrow has broken every bone it has encountered (hogs and deer).

I’m a huge fan of the cultural shift from light/fast to heavy but your average Whitetail hunter shooting 28 or 29 inch draw at 70 pounds does not need an Ashby arrow for deer hunting...not even for worst case scenario.

The lower the bow poundage and shorter the draw length, the more critical the terminal end of archery (arrow) becomes. Same goes for the game pursued. Worse case on a moose requires something different than worse case on a Whitetail doe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
All I know is since I went to shooting heavy arrows these SC deer more often than not turn to look at the noise the arrow makes hitting the ground before they run off.
 
So a lot of Ashbys testing was on great big buffaloe ribs and he got through with a 40 lb recurve at 650 grains. Well give him best case scenario and say by some miracle he hit 180 fps.
a448fc42d27d58271e576544484a28a1.jpg

Now we take a modern compound in all its glory and you want me to believe it wont make it past a whitetail humerus?
25c55592a96f3e2168d3946d6e3f3ac9.jpg

You wanna take a guess at how many back side humerus bones have been shattered on quartering away shots by people who didn't make it to the mythical 650 grains? Or does it only count if you take a quartering too angle you probably shouldnt be shooting anyways.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Same here, I’ll take the bet. I’m shooting 580 grains with %17 percent FOC because I can but I’m willing to drop it back to 14% FOC and 530 grains to win just about any ole internet bet .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
323 grains total weight
100 grain Rage
10.3% FOC

Screenshot_20200220-185944_Gallery.jpg

Killed 4 deer with it last year. 2 took hits to the scapula. Pass throughs on all 4 deer. Easy recoveries.

The way I see it, overthinking arrows is only slightly less silly than overthinking camo patterns. Speaking of which, do camo wraps help or hurt penetration? On one hand, more GPI. On the other, the rough surface creates drag...
 
Of course you need to worry about deer ducking your shot if you load up your arrow enough to shoot recurve speeds. At my specs I have no worries inside 20 yards. I also dare someone to say this setup wouldn't make it to a whitetails vitals because the arrows not heavy enough. I took reaction times of olympic sprinters and crunched the numbers of how far a deer can drop in those times. Read em and weep #adultbows
View attachment 25423
View attachment 25424

Love math and have never seen gravity discussed on any hunting forum (except for when talking about falling out of a tree) so intrigued by this. What is the speed of gravity used for in your formula? I'm thinking that a deer can use its muscles to move much faster either forward, backward, up, down or a combination of them, than the initial speed gravity would cause for them to move down. If they couldn't move up faster than gravity, they wouldn't be able to jump. I think the speed of gravity would only apply if the deer tripped and fell as you released the arrow. Or am I misunderstanding what you used that number for? And how did you calculate the inches in the gravity section? Thanks

Sent from up in a tree
 
All I know is since I went to shooting heavy arrows these SC deer more often than not turn to look at the noise the arrow makes hitting the ground before they run off.
x2. Heavy arrows aren't just about penetration. The first time I shot a deer with a 575g/22foc arrow, I thought I missed it because there wasn't that usual thump noise. The deer thought I missed too and just stood there so I started knocking a second arrow while cursing my new heavy arrows. Deer fell over when I started to draw back and there was my lighted nock sticking out of the ground. And seriously, is there really a need to debate this topic? No one is going to change each other's minds on the internet. Only your own experience will do that.

Sent from up in a tree
 
Who is we and “worse case scenario” for what scenario? Worse case scenario on a deer and worse case scenario on a Cape buffalo are two completely different worst case scenarios. I enjoy a 365 day/year season in Hawaii and for the past 18 months my 532 grain 14% FOC slick trick tipped arrow has broken every bone it has encountered (hogs and deer).

I’m a huge fan of the cultural shift from light/fast to heavy but your average Whitetail hunter shooting 28 or 29 inch draw at 70 pounds does not need an Ashby arrow for deer hunting...not even for worst case scenario.

The lower the bow poundage and shorter the draw length, the more critical the terminal end of archery (arrow) becomes. Same goes for the game pursued. Worse case on a moose requires something different than worse case on a Whitetail doe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So a lot of Ashbys testing was on great big buffaloe ribs and he got through with a 40 lb recurve at 650 grains. Well give him best case scenario and say by some miracle he hit 180 fps.
a448fc42d27d58271e576544484a28a1.jpg

Now we take a modern compound in all its glory and you want me to believe it wont make it past a whitetail humerus?
25c55592a96f3e2168d3946d6e3f3ac9.jpg

You wanna take a guess at how many back side humerus bones have been shattered on quartering away shots by people who didn't make it to the mythical 650 grains? Or does it only count if you take a quartering too angle you probably shouldnt be shooting anyways.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Nobody is saying y’all have to shoot arrows built this way... people are just discussing why they (we) are building arrows into the Ashby range.

If you give me the choose to get T-boned by a freight train going 50mph or a smart car going 100... I’ll take my chances with the smart car over the freight train.

I’m making the switch because I wasn’t happy with my performance at 480 grains.. even if it’s perfect for you.

Shoot your setup, and if you aren’t interested in heavy setups y’all are always free to ignore the thread. Or even start a thread extolling the benefits of light or mid weight arrow setups.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
All I know is since I went to shooting heavy arrows these SC deer more often than not turn to look at the noise the arrow makes hitting the ground before they run off.

After they’ve been hit right?

I noticed a positive result in lowering bow noise moving up from 430 to 500+ grains. Much less from 530 to 580 or even 600. Your bow is only getting so quiet and on a dead quiet day the deer will still hear the shot. That has been my experience anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
you give me the choose to get T-boned by a freight train going 50mph or a smart car going 100... I’ll take my chances with the smart car over the freight train.
That's actually a perfect example. In both instances, you (the metaphorical deer) are not only merely dead, you're really most sincerely dead. ;)
 
Love math and have never seen gravity discussed on any hunting forum (except for when talking about falling out of a tree) so intrigued by this. What is the speed of gravity used for in your formula? I'm thinking that a deer can use its muscles to move much faster either forward, backward, up, down or a combination of them, than the initial speed gravity would cause for them to move down. If they couldn't move up faster than gravity, they wouldn't be able to jump. I think the speed of gravity would only apply if the deer tripped and fell as you released the arrow. Or am I misunderstanding what you used that number for? And how did you calculate the inches in the gravity section? Thanks

Sent from up in a tree

Im not aware of any muscles that allow them to pull themselves to the ground, so when they drop they do so under the acceleration of gravity. And the inches moved come from one of the constant acceleration formulas.
X-Xo = VoT + 1/2 a T^2

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
x2. Heavy arrows aren't just about penetration. The first time I shot a deer with a 575g/22foc arrow, I thought I missed it because there wasn't that usual thump noise. The deer thought I missed too and just stood there so I started knocking a second arrow while cursing my new heavy arrows. Deer fell over when I started to draw back and there was my lighted nock sticking out of the ground. And seriously, is there really a need to debate this topic? No one is going to change each other's minds on the internet. Only your own experience will do that.

Sent from up in a tree

Yeah I’d disagree about the internet not changing minds. The THP/Ranch Fairy podcast will sell more arrows in 2020 than 2019! Those boys have a serious following!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Nobody is saying y’all have to shoot arrows built this way... people are just discussing why they (we) are building arrows into the Ashby range.

If you give me the choose to get T-boned by a freight train going 50mph or a smart car going 100... I’ll take my chances with the smart car over the freight train.

I’m making the switch because I wasn’t happy with my performance at 480 grains.. even if it’s perfect for you.

Shoot your setup, and if you aren’t interested in heavy setups y’all are always free to ignore the thread. Or even start a thread extolling the benefits of light or mid weight arrow setups.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone’s opinion, perspective and experience is just as relevant to the OP is yours. But I’ve only arrowed 100+ animals in eight states over the past 15 years so what do I know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Who is we and “worse case scenario” for what scenario? Worse case scenario on a deer and worse case scenario on a Cape buffalo are two completely different worst case scenarios. I enjoy a 365 day/year season in Hawaii and for the past 18 months my 532 grain 14% FOC slick trick tipped arrow has broken every bone it has encountered (hogs and deer).

I’m a huge fan of the cultural shift from light/fast to heavy but your average Whitetail hunter shooting 28 or 29 inch draw at 70 pounds does not need an Ashby arrow for deer hunting...not even for worst case scenario.

The lower the bow poundage and shorter the draw length, the more critical the terminal end of archery (arrow) becomes. Same goes for the game pursued. Worse case on a moose requires something different than worse case on a Whitetail doe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I kind of agree. Even Ashby said it's a compromise that each archer decides on his, or her own, depending on what your going after, and where you hunt. I think the movement is to get arrows built better, with better component materials, and increased weight up front. It's not just the weight it's what the weight is made of. Getting away from mechanicals, and using good fixed blade broad heads solidly made. I think if we can just do that our sport as a whole benefits. There's a lot of wiggle room in there for personal choice. I just started building more solid after my last season. More solid means heavier. I looked at what I knew was available component wise and since I needed new shafts any way, I killed 4 out of the 7 arrows I started last season with. I selected the shaft with consideration for what I thought I wanted to put on it. I didn't plan on the weight I ended up with but it performs within the expectations I had when I started. My bow is more in tune with my arrows than it's probably ever been. and my bow is way quieter. So If I'm ever out deer hunting and an irate Asiatic buffalo gives me reason, it sucks to be him.
 
323 grains total weight
100 grain Rage
10.3% FOC

View attachment 25439

Killed 4 deer with it last year. 2 took hits to the scapula. Pass throughs on all 4 deer. Easy recoveries.

The way I see it, overthinking arrows is only slightly less silly than overthinking camo patterns. Speaking of which, do camo wraps help or hurt penetration? On one hand, more GPI. On the other, the rough surface creates drag...
It depends on what camo.
 
That's actually a perfect example. In both instances, you (the metaphorical deer) are not only merely dead, you're really most sincerely dead. ;)

Exactly. I doubt the deer cares if my 530 Grain 14% FOC arrow went through his shoulders and is buried 12 inches in the ground or it’s my 580 grain arrow buried 12.1 inches in the ground.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yeah I’d disagree about the internet not changing minds. The THP/Ranch Fairy podcast will sell more arrows in 2020 than 2019! Those boys have a serious following!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lol should have said on a forum. Everyone believes what they see on video!

Sent from up in a tree
 
I kind of agree. Even Ashby said it's a compromise that each archer decides on his, or her own, depending on what your going after, and where you hunt. I think the movement is to get arrows built better, with better component materials, and increased weight up front. It's not just the weight it's what the weight is made of. Getting away from mechanicals, and using good fixed blade broad heads solidly made. I think if we can just do that our sport as a whole benefits. There's a lot of wiggle room in there for personal choice. I just started building more solid after my last season. More solid means heavier. I looked at what I knew was available component wise and since I needed new shafts any way, I killed 4 out of the 7 arrows I started last season with. I selected the shaft with consideration for what I thought I wanted to put on it. I didn't plan on the weight I ended up with but it performs within the expectations I had when I started. My bow is more in tune with my arrows than it's probably ever been. and my bow is way quieter. So If I'm ever out deer hunting and an irate Asiatic buffalo gives me reason, it sucks to be him.

Exactly, I’m a huge fan of the way the pendulum is swinging but we’re kidding ourselves if we think it needs to swing from 380 grain 2” cut mechanicals to 760 grain 30% FOC single bevel. More power to those that want to shoot that arrow but the bow hunting community would be in a great place if the majority of hunters would consider shooting a quality fixed blade vs. the biggest mechanical on the market. Bumping arrow weight up certainly won’t hurt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Who is we and “worse case scenario” for what scenario? Worse case scenario on a deer and worse case scenario on a Cape buffalo are two completely different worst case scenarios. I enjoy a 365 day/year season in Hawaii and for the past 18 months my 532 grain 14% FOC slick trick tipped arrow has broken every bone it has encountered (hogs and deer).

I’m a huge fan of the cultural shift from light/fast to heavy but your average Whitetail hunter shooting 28 or 29 inch draw at 70 pounds does not need an Ashby arrow for deer hunting...not even for worst case scenario.

The lower the bow poundage and shorter the draw length, the more critical the terminal end of archery (arrow) becomes. Same goes for the game pursued. Worse case on a moose requires something different than worse case on a Whitetail doe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My question would be, if I'm building arrows anyway why wouldn't I build in some insurance I can personally live with. I think the best we can hope for is to have folks take a look at what their shooting and make an honest evaluation of their stuff. Change just for change never floated my boat, but change for the better is something I can embrace. Who decides what's better? Each of us, with awareness of the facts, the knowledge and wisdom we have collected over time, and honesty to the animals we pursue and to ourselves. Then do what floats your own boat.
 
Im not aware of any muscles that allow them to pull themselves to the ground, so when they drop they do so under the acceleration of gravity. And the inches moved come from one of the constant acceleration formulas.
X-Xo = VoT + 1/2 a T^2

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Gotcha. Not sure a deer would qualify as a freely falling object (in that formula). I'm pretty sure they use just about every muscle to pull themselves down/left/right/etc, similar to how a person "ducks" out of the way of something. Could be wrong but they look a whole lot faster than that to me!

Sent from up in a tree
 
Back
Top