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Shock Loading and Planning for a Fall when One-Sticking

Add on top of this that the hunting industry does no kind of real credible testing. With the hype of saddle hunting and the creation of so many small saddle making businesses its even sketchier because they are LLCs selling non-climbing rated saddles that everyone is going to use at 20' up in a tree, but I digress.

Did OP get his answer yet. I am curious what he is thinking now. @Mattaboy
 
Add on top of this that the hunting industry does no kind of real credible testing. With the hype of saddle hunting and the creation of so many small saddle making businesses its even sketchier because they are LLCs selling non-climbing rated saddles that everyone is going to use at 20' up in a tree, but I digress.

Did OP get his answer yet. I am curious what he is thinking now. @Mattaboy
They aren’t climbing rated but some of them do meet ANSI standards for work positioning harnesses. Some also do testing, although there aren’t currently standards in place. I heard the guys from Trophyline, Tethrd and H2 are on a subcommittee making recommendations for saddle standards. Although I question the motives when some of those companies are patent happy. I am looking forward to there being a standard for safety.
 
OP is definitely at Lowe’s right now buying 5 gallon buckets for presets
No he’s pricing a good middle of the road rope and learning to tie some friction hitches. I doubt we scared him off, he’s a numbers guy. Guys like him and @kyler1945 and myself to some extent, like to weigh the options and try to get it right the first time. At least I know I try to do it that way.
 
Well, there's been a lot of great stuff discussed here! I'm glad I'm not the only one looking at safety. I sent that spreadsheet and some questions to Tethrd, G2, and DIY sportsman, and none of them bothered to respond. I'm really thankful for the community here, especially as a new hunter.

The dynamic screamers/lanyards/items were all totally new to me, and I'm glad I got to learn about them. They seem very useful, so numbers depending I may include them in my setup.

The idea of climbing with 2 tethers totally blew my mind, which is why I love coming to these forums! It feels like it solidly addresses the problem of falling during ascension, and means you can have a lighter rope specifically for rappelling and sitting. Bonus points since it lets me use the Sterling C-IV rope I blindly bought and trusted, since it'll never have slack . I'll still run some numbers to make sure it all works out, and post it when I'm all done.

If a 1-rope approach is more what you're looking for, a rope mentioned to me in DMs was the Bluewater Protac. Its performance is 2nd only to the Tech11 rope, and it's about a buck a foot - which kinda makes it top dog. It's really tempting swap it out, and turn my 40' of workPro into drop test rope. For science, it's probably worth it. The ropes made me wonder about the colour though. Does anyone use a brighter rope (red like the workPro or something with non-drab colours), and if so, do you find it strains your eyes after a while?

The talk about lineman belt is awesome, and I'm interested in people's experience with them. I can see they keep you from falling away from the tree, but I wonder about falling towards, or aside the tree. I thought that one-sticking kept you closer to the tree, so the forwards fall forward might be a relevant risk - especially for the rainy day scenario we're talking about here. That said, I don't have a climbing stick (recommendations?), so I haven't even put toe to tree yet. Can folks comment on any falls while wearing a lineman's belt, or is that stuff just rock-solid?

On the hitches, I think it makes sense to avoid relying on an autoblock until I can guarantee that it's safe. That'll probably be through some sandbag drop testing, or just jumping onto a crash pad. Probably something to test when I finally have a climbing stick! Until then I'll probably keep to a prusik on the bridge.

Speaking of testing, I sent an email to Ryan (the guy in the vids linked earlier in the thread) and he said he'd do some drop testing on the GriGri similar to the G2 one-stick setup. I'll defo be donating as a thank you.
 
Well, there's been a lot of great stuff discussed here! I'm glad I'm not the only one looking at safety. I sent that spreadsheet and some questions to Tethrd, G2, and DIY sportsman, and none of them bothered to respond. I'm really thankful for the community here, especially as a new hunter.

The dynamic screamers/lanyards/items were all totally new to me, and I'm glad I got to learn about them. They seem very useful, so numbers depending I may include them in my setup.

The idea of climbing with 2 tethers totally blew my mind, which is why I love coming to these forums! It feels like it solidly addresses the problem of falling during ascension, and means you can have a lighter rope specifically for rappelling and sitting. Bonus points since it lets me use the Sterling C-IV rope I blindly bought and trusted, since it'll never have slack . I'll still run some numbers to make sure it all works out, and post it when I'm all done.

If a 1-rope approach is more what you're looking for, a rope mentioned to me in DMs was the Bluewater Protac. Its performance is 2nd only to the Tech11 rope, and it's about a buck a foot - which kinda makes it top dog. It's really tempting swap it out, and turn my 40' of workPro into drop test rope. For science, it's probably worth it. The ropes made me wonder about the colour though. Does anyone use a brighter rope (red like the workPro or something with non-drab colours), and if so, do you find it strains your eyes after a while?

The talk about lineman belt is awesome, and I'm interested in people's experience with them. I can see they keep you from falling away from the tree, but I wonder about falling towards, or aside the tree. I thought that one-sticking kept you closer to the tree, so the forwards fall forward might be a relevant risk - especially for the rainy day scenario we're talking about here. That said, I don't have a climbing stick (recommendations?), so I haven't even put toe to tree yet. Can folks comment on any falls while wearing a lineman's belt, or is that stuff just rock-solid?

On the hitches, I think it makes sense to avoid relying on an autoblock until I can guarantee that it's safe. That'll probably be through some sandbag drop testing, or just jumping onto a crash pad. Probably something to test when I finally have a climbing stick! Until then I'll probably keep to a prusik on the bridge.

Speaking of testing, I sent an email to Ryan (the guy in the vids linked earlier in the thread) and he said he'd do some drop testing on the GriGri similar to the G2 one-stick setup. I'll defo be donating as a thank you.
All linesman loops are not rock solid! In fact many would not pass the tests done for FAS tests. You are correct they are designed to allow you to work hands free but require some leaning to provide tension and friction to the tree. Climbing on a one stick puts you same distance off a tree that climbing on sticks would. So the linesman ropes would definitely work.
Lastly Ryan from how not to slack line is a class act guy and is all about testing for science and safety purposes! Glad to see your question is paying dividends for you.
 
Is advancing the delay device/rope grab while climbing a viable option? It seems like a quick pull to advance the device and take up slack still keeps reasonable speed. Sure you’d have to adjust it some when moving the tether up but
Obviously not a shock loading machine, but I enjoyed watching the load testing in this video and thought its results were interesting.



He said on one of his recent videos that they’re getting a drop test station, which should be pretty interesting.
 
If u using the linesman correctly and u loose ur footing it's going to swing u into the tree kinda violently and give u tummy chest and arm bark burn and u may slide down the trunk some. If climbing with stick/sticks u can get really up close and personal with them...if u using incorrectly....I don't know what happens because I don't use it incorrectly but I assume u going for a painful ride till hopefully the rope catches a branch,knot,bark....
 
Grabbing a one stick from Eastern Woods Outdoors is highly recommended, or from one that pops up in the classifieds here from time to time.

Also seems the consensus prefers an Overwatch Transformer as a saddle for one sticking, but quite a few others like one of the Cruzr 2 panel saddles.

This thread has persuaded me to utilize my lineman’s belt while one sticking. Thanks for the words of wisdom. I had seen SRT Saddlehunter utilize his in an older one sticking video and thought at the time that I didn’t want to add an extra step to my game, but my wife and four kids deserve the extra step. Salute!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I’ve been using a dynamic tether for climbing as well as a dynamic prusik from blue water ropes and a screamer. Overkill? Maybe. But it’s a system strategically made for a fall. Adds less than a pound on the traditional set up since I have the extra dynamic tether.
 
I find threads of this type entertaining and sometimes comical even though they are meant to be taken seriously, as everyone should have their personal safety as the most important priority once both feet leave terra firma but let me explain why I say this before y'all vote me off the island. And for the record, this is not meant to insult or belittle anyone by any means, but more of a way to get everyone to step back and really look at the big picture and think rationally.

First let me say that I am a black and white thinker, I don't care about grey areas. The reality of what we do is dangerous, period. It is impossible to make it 100% safe, period. Can we reduce the risks and inherent dangers, yes but by how much we don't and will never really know. Each of us has a different acceptance level of what we deem to be safe and what amount of risk we feel comfortable with.

Devil's advocate time...

So we're concerned about shock loading while one sticking...then why would one be undertaking the climbing method that probably has the hands down highest percentage chance that something can go wrong and when it does, it has the potential of going wrong in a big way? It's the riskiest way to climb, if someone is truly concerned about their well being they shouldn't choose this method. See my point of saying it's comical? We have chosen this method first and then decided to worry about our safety and how to minimize the risks involved when in reality if personal safety was paramount this method should have been avoided. It's like putting the cart before the horse and then trying to make it work.

Now there are ways to reduce the risks and most of us know them but again we each decide just how much of a burden of safety we are willing to employ to feel satisfied that we did our part. Advance the tether with every step we take to keep slack at a minimum or does that take too long so we instead fly up the aider to the top step and then quickly raise the tether from our boots to above our head? The exposed risk time is less than 10 seconds doing it the latter way but makes the climb much quicker... How about using our linesman belt during the entire climb? That's a pita... We'll employ a screamer, well if we advance the tether as we should and keep slack to a minimum a screamer shouldn't be necessary. Maybe we'll use dynamic rope...again, if we keep a short tether the difference between dynamic and static rope on a super short fall is negligible. Don't put our fingers under the tether as we advance it...we only grab it from the top so our fingers won't get trapped... I Are you starting to see the comedy I am referring to? We rationalize safety to justify our means.

This safety concern shouldn't be limited to one sticking either. Gravity doesn't care what was the last piece of equipment we were standing on before she takes hold of us. Sticks, steps, spurs, bolts or ladders, the same staples of safety should be employed at all times those being a tether kept as high and slack free as possible and a linesman belt employed at all times during a climb. These along with vigilance in rope and gear inspections before each and every use will keep the odds of a mishap low but until humans grow wings there will always be that slight chance that something can go wrong no matter how safe we think we are.
 
I find threads of this type entertaining and sometimes comical even though they are meant to be taken seriously, as everyone should have their personal safety as the most important priority once both feet leave terra firma but let me explain why I say this before y'all vote me off the island. And for the record, this is not meant to insult or belittle anyone by any means, but more of a way to get everyone to step back and really look at the big picture and think rationally.

First let me say that I am a black and white thinker, I don't care about grey areas. The reality of what we do is dangerous, period. It is impossible to make it 100% safe, period. Can we reduce the risks and inherent dangers, yes but by how much we don't and will never really know. Each of us has a different acceptance level of what we deem to be safe and what amount of risk we feel comfortable with.

Devil's advocate time...

So we're concerned about shock loading while one sticking...then why would one be undertaking the climbing method that probably has the hands down highest percentage chance that something can go wrong and when it does, it has the potential of going wrong in a big way? It's the riskiest way to climb, if someone is truly concerned about their well being they shouldn't choose this method. See my point of saying it's comical? We have chosen this method first and then decided to worry about our safety and how to minimize the risks involved when in reality if personal safety was paramount this method should have been avoided. It's like putting the cart before the horse and then trying to make it work.

Now there are ways to reduce the risks and most of us know them but again we each decide just how much of a burden of safety we are willing to employ to feel satisfied that we did our part. Advance the tether with every step we take to keep slack at a minimum or does that take too long so we instead fly up the aider to the top step and then quickly raise the tether from our boots to above our head? The exposed risk time is less than 10 seconds doing it the latter way but makes the climb much quicker... How about using our linesman belt during the entire climb? That's a pita... We'll employ a screamer, well if we advance the tether as we should and keep slack to a minimum a screamer shouldn't be necessary. Maybe we'll use dynamic rope...again, if we keep a short tether the difference between dynamic and static rope on a super short fall is negligible. Don't put our fingers under the tether as we advance it...we only grab it from the top so our fingers won't get trapped... I Are you starting to see the comedy I am referring to? We rationalize safety to justify our means.

This safety concern shouldn't be limited to one sticking either. Gravity doesn't care what was the last piece of equipment we were standing on before she takes hold of us. Sticks, steps, spurs, bolts or ladders, the same staples of safety should be employed at all times those being a tether kept as high and slack free as possible and a linesman belt employed at all times during a climb. These along with vigilance in rope and gear inspections before each and every use will keep the odds of a mishap low but until humans grow wings there will always be that slight chance that something can go wrong no matter how safe we think we are.

why do you even get in a tree to begin with? If it’s black and white, sitting on a bucket on the ground eliminates all the black(or white I guess, depending on your perspective) from the equation.

I like your thought process. But if you’re going to employ that analysis, it’s important to note that the level you’re performing it at isn’t deep enough. Black and white when it comes to tree climbing = don’t.

I’d also argue that when all factors are taken into consideration, one stick climbing doesn’t stand out from any other climbing method in terms of risks. You say we can’t really know, but we can’t really know anything. There’s evidence, and an analysis of it, and a confidence interval we can assign to our conclusions.

This isn’t to say people using long aiders, on wet trees, with heavy winter clothes on, allowing 30+“ of slack each time they set their stick, and hanging from a ropeman aren’t introducing risk beyond other climbing methods. You’re right that it can. But if we’re going to use the above reasoning, we should be doing it with our butts on the ground.

since folks aren’t going to do that, we have these silly conversations. One fella above already said he was going to take a step to make his climb less risky. That’s a win in my book!
 
Can we reduce the risks and inherent dangers, yes but by how much we don't and will never really know.

I totally get what you are saying but I don’t agree with this. Posts like this are clearly an effort to understand the issues so they can be mitigated or resolved. Hopefully some real world testing comes of this and is shared with the group.

Driving automobiles is wildly dangerous. There is still testing and research done to reduce the risks and inherent dangers. I’d argue there are waaaay more variables to consider in testing the safety of an automobile than what we are doing.

We are dropping weight suspended by a rope into a saddle. It’s not rocket science and I feel like there is a great solution out there to knock the sliding scale back towards safety and slightly away from efficiency for the one stick method and still reap the rewards of this climbing method.

There is already a great benefit coming just from the dialogue alone.
 
I have been employing a cinched srt method with either a stick or platform so that the only time my climbing line is not weighted is when stepping on one of the two. Now there is a moment when there is a minor amount of slack introduced but I am using a lanyard at this time. I use a saddle that is designed for climbing and am familiar with hitches and other equipment specifically used for vertical applications. Leaving the ground is an inherent risk and thought must be employed. I am afraid that the race to get the highest in the least amount of moves with some sketchy equipment can prove problematic. We as a saddle hunting community do things that are questionable at best compared to U.S. standards for rope access and totally not up to par with European standards( for instance using 2 lines for accent). If anyone chooses to add risk to an already dangerous endeavor that is a personal thing but please educate and get some training as we all want to return home safely after the hunt.
 
Has anybody had a boo boo while using the linesman that had results other than what I described? My only mistakes have been while I was tight to the tree and rope well above my waist. It just slammed me into the tree and I bear hugged the tree with arms and then with my legs, readjusted and continued with what I was doing. I've only had mishap while trimming branches around the house... overextending like a dummy. Knock on wood, nothing while out hunting. Bark rash was all I got injury wise
 
I
Has anybody had a boo boo while using the linesman that had results other than what I described? My only mistakes have been while I was tight to the tree and rope well above my waist. It just slammed me into the tree and I bear hugged the tree with arms and then with my legs, readjusted and continued with what I was doing. I've only had mishap while trimming branches around the house... overextending like a dummy. Knock on wood, nothing while out hunting. Bark rash was all I got injury wise
I have cut out on a utility pole and you swing in pretty fast and hard, you slide down about three inches (on a tree it should be less). There is some scraping but for me it was the splinters lol splinters ain’t no joke!
 
Well, there's been a lot of great stuff discussed here! I'm glad I'm not the only one looking at safety. I sent that spreadsheet and some questions to Tethrd, G2, and DIY sportsman, and none of them bothered to respond. I'm really thankful for the community here, especially as a new hunter.

The dynamic screamers/lanyards/items were all totally new to me, and I'm glad I got to learn about them. They seem very useful, so numbers depending I may include them in my setup.

The idea of climbing with 2 tethers totally blew my mind, which is why I love coming to these forums! It feels like it solidly addresses the problem of falling during ascension, and means you can have a lighter rope specifically for rappelling and sitting. Bonus points since it lets me use the Sterling C-IV rope I blindly bought and trusted, since it'll never have slack . I'll still run some numbers to make sure it all works out, and post it when I'm all done.

If a 1-rope approach is more what you're looking for, a rope mentioned to me in DMs was the Bluewater Protac. Its performance is 2nd only to the Tech11 rope, and it's about a buck a foot - which kinda makes it top dog. It's really tempting swap it out, and turn my 40' of workPro into drop test rope. For science, it's probably worth it. The ropes made me wonder about the colour though. Does anyone use a brighter rope (red like the workPro or something with non-drab colours), and if so, do you find it strains your eyes after a while?

The talk about lineman belt is awesome, and I'm interested in people's experience with them. I can see they keep you from falling away from the tree, but I wonder about falling towards, or aside the tree. I thought that one-sticking kept you closer to the tree, so the forwards fall forward might be a relevant risk - especially for the rainy day scenario we're talking about here. That said, I don't have a climbing stick (recommendations?), so I haven't even put toe to tree yet. Can folks comment on any falls while wearing a lineman's belt, or is that stuff just rock-solid?

On the hitches, I think it makes sense to avoid relying on an autoblock until I can guarantee that it's safe. That'll probably be through some sandbag drop testing, or just jumping onto a crash pad. Probably something to test when I finally have a climbing stick! Until then I'll probably keep to a prusik on the bridge.

Speaking of testing, I sent an email to Ryan (the guy in the vids linked earlier in the thread) and he said he'd do some drop testing on the GriGri similar to the G2 one-stick setup. I'll defo be donating as a thank you.

The NY Saddle Hunter has alot of good information on using ropes for saddle hunting.

Inregards to linesman rope safety, I think his approach is best. I'm an advocate of using your linesman as a redundant tether system parallel to your main tether since you already have the rope.

 
The NY Saddle Hunter has alot of good information on using ropes for saddle hunting.

Inregards to linesman rope safety, I think his approach is best. I'm an advocate of using your linesman as a redundant tether system parallel to your main tether since you already have the rope.

Yea they do. They are fantastic and as of yesterday they got away from aerohunter and began pushing a new saddle company called Flat Branch Outdoors. Said the pleated one was the “perfect saddle”. Does anyone else on here have one or have they tried it? Sponsored saddles make me a little nervous but I am a fan of the NY guys
 
Yea they do. They are fantastic and as of yesterday they got away from aerohunter and began pushing a new saddle company called Flat Branch Outdoors. Said the pleated one was the “perfect saddle”. Does anyone else on here have one or have they tried it? Sponsored saddles make me a little nervous but I am a fan of the NY guys
And I thought my pleated saddle was the best…until I met you! Hahahahaha
 
Yea they do. They are fantastic and as of yesterday they got away from aerohunter and began pushing a new saddle company called Flat Branch Outdoors. Said the pleated one was the “perfect saddle”. Does anyone else on here have one or have they tried it? Sponsored saddles make me a little nervous but I am a fan of the NY guys

I like how their leg loops is really low and the bridge designs. I recently heard about them too, mostly from FB, I dont think they have a present on this forum so its not talked about much. I do not own a single panel anymore but I would definitely give them a try if I dont get a CGM for Christmas.
 
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