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Wanna make (scent control) history?

neonomad

neonomad

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
1,373
What if we coordinated some data gathering next season? If someone was willing to be aggressive in their scent control, we could report in a standardized way our deer downwind encounters in a thread, and see if we can find a trend in the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of Scentlok?

Hunts could be purposefully upwind, or accidentally upwind, either one is a useful encounter.

It’s tricky because JE’s scent routine is not easy, but if done right I think a study like this would be real interesting, to put some actual field testing to the debate. Anybody interested?
 
neonomad said:
What if we coordinated some data gathering next season? If someone was willing to be aggressive in their scent control, we could report in a standardized way our deer downwind encounters in a thread, and see if we can find a trend in the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of Scentlok?

Hunts could be purposefully upwind, or accidentally upwind, either one is a useful encounter.

It’s tricky because JE’s scent routine is not easy, but if done right I think a study like this would be real interesting, to put some actual field testing to the debate. Anybody interested?
Click to expand...

If you have 20-50 hunters, and you do this study across 5 years or so, at an average of 100 hours afield per year per person, you’ll get an extremely useful data set.


Things that matter:

Precision of gear/technique assessment. Accuracy not as important. If you know exactly what the person’s routine and gear is, it doesn’t matter what it is. So long as you have a precise measure of it.

Precision of hunting scenario assessment. Wind direction, temperature, humidity, deer approach direction, distance, reaction, etc. there’s probably 10-15 categories you’d want to capture.

Getting a thousand or so of these entries, across a wide set of hunting locations, times, weather conditions, pressure, etc, will tell a very useful story if analyzed properly.

I will gladly contribute to the “I don’t do scent control, and will report my findings as the control” haha.
 
How do you know the deer is downwind? That's just guessing the wind currents really.

Here's my thing with most of JE's claims in this regard. I know he hunts high, and I believe he hunts almost excluslively thick stuff. I hunt thick stuff almost exclusively as well, although not as high. We'll call thick stuff the max you are seeing deer is about 50 yards. We'll assume in most setups, if you're high enough, there is going to be a variable distance depending on terrain and wind currents where your scent will blow above the deer. Let's call that distance 50 yards for the sake of illustration here. So by that logic, no deer I can see can wind me. Boom, scent control or not, I've never been winded. Foolproof confirmation bias at work. I hardly ever get winded either! I'm not sure I have in the past couple years. No scent control works as scent control!
 
I've had a similar idea, but I was going for:

corn feeders with trail cams on them (where legal), bag of barber hair and dirty clothes, scentlok bags

randomly assign (with replication): no stink bag, stink bag no cover, stink bag inside scentlok bag, scentlok bag no stink bag inside

note pictures and analyze....try your best to keep everything the same across treatments and use enough that differences are spread out and diluted
 
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elk yinzer said:
How do you know the deer is downwind? That's just guessing the wind currents really.

Here's my thing with most of JE's claims in this regard. I know he hunts high, and I believe he hunts almost excluslively thick stuff. I hunt thick stuff almost exclusively as well, although not as high. We'll call thick stuff the max you are seeing deer is about 50 yards. We'll assume in most setups, if you're high enough, there is going to be a variable distance depending on terrain and wind currents where your scent will blow above the deer. Let's call that distance 50 yards for the sake of illustration here. So by that logic, no deer I can see can wind me. Boom, scent control or not, I've never been winded. Foolproof confirmation bias at work. I hardly ever get winded either! I'm not sure I have in the past couple years. No scent control works as scent control!
Click to expand...


This is where the diverse set of hunting styles, locations, terrains, etc. will tease out the details.

The power of the data is in the numbers.
 
I’d love to participate. I have all scent lok and I’ve noticed results in using it. I will agree with the comment above about height playing a factor but I also shot a deer this year at 20 yards on the ground wearing scent lok. It was a young buck so that could play another part to it. But the wind was 100% in his face coming over my back. I also had multiple deer come in from down wind throughout the season with out busting me. No “mature” class bucks but some younger bucks and a lot of does. I wouldn’t say my scent control is up to JE standards but I do my darn well best to keep everything air tight, clean and un- contaminated. I also tend to hunt around 25 feet for what it’s worth. Some trees I get up to 30 but that’s very seldom and I have a few presets that are only around 17 feet just because that’s where the canopy cover is
 
IMO, too many variables and too small of a sample size to get a statistically significant result. Any study would have to use standardized processes in all aspects of scent control and would also have to involve a control group. After you do all of that there is no repeatable way to actually determine if your scent column is actually reaching the deer when the deer is “down wind”. I get it, it’s an informal study. But IMO the results would be about as valuable as posting a thread and asking everyone if they think it works or not. Lol. Either you believe or you don’t.
 
Has JE ever participated in one of those tests using dogs? If he can’t fool a dog I don’t think he can fool a deer, and if his scent control doesn’t work nobody’s does. The guy even washes the aiders on his sticks.
 
2Sloe said:
IMO, too many variables and too small of a sample size to get a statistically significant result. Any study would have to use standardized processes in all aspects of scent control and would also have to involve a control group. After you do all of that there is no repeatable way to actually determine if your scent column is actually reaching the deer when the deer is “down wind”. I get it, it’s an informal study. But IMO the results would be about as valuable as posting a thread and asking everyone if they think it works or not. Lol. Either you believe or you don’t.
Click to expand...

If the model is simple enough, and the data collection is precise, based on that simple model, it would be pretty useful.

If your question is “does scent control work or not”, you’re right, this type of experiment will tell you basically nothing.

I’d argue that’s the wrong question to ask.

And I wouldn’t even want to ask questions up front. Just gather the data. A lot of our replication crisis is due to bad data collection methods. And a lot of it is people who are experts at whatever thing is being studied doing the statistics analysis poorly.

Example - Ashby. Wonderful data set and collection. Interesting topic. Passionate fellow. Not very good at statistical analysis, nor physics.
 
BTaylor said:
Yeah, I dont own a single piece of scentlok but would be happy to participate in the non scentlok group.
Click to expand...
SAME!!! But I'm not going to lie, I'm seriously considering it for no other reason than, why not??? But, if Its not "really worth it", why spend ~ $200 plus on scent lock clothing? Or perhaps, why not?
 
It's an interesting idea but I'm going to have to agree with 2Sloe on this one. Any input I could give would be anecdotal. If you get the thread going, I will post some hunts to contribute, for what they are worth.

I will say that it is very unlikely anything will change the opinion of people who don't want to believe it works. Some folks seem to have their whole identity tied up in being absolutely against it, just like some folks live to nay say high FOC arrows or hate on tree saddles. If they are happy playing (and getting played by) the wind that is cool with me.

Incidentally, almost everyone already has a pretty hardcore scent control regimen in place for their fellow humans. If you are married, or have a significant other, ask yourself if you would likely be with them today if when you met them it had been 3 weeks since your last shower.

I have seen enough evidence to prove to myself it works for me if I work it.
 
I say this to no offense to anyone nor am I questioning any knowledge or how to anyone has or has learned to make fthem over years of being afield in real life hunting situations
I honestly think the big so called gods of whitetails of social media have one huge advantages over most of us.
TIME.
Being able to hunt or scout every day snd traveling to different states to hunt for months and months is a bit more advantage than most of us here who only have time to hunt 2-3 sits max a week.
if i was able to hunt as much as some of these guys do I would most likely have a great looking trophy wall or probably room.

scent scent scent.
What works snd what doesn’t ?
if a high pressured deer gets any kind-of idea he is being hunted, he is going to most likley react by not frequenting that area during daylight hours.
scent control is a must for all of us. Its just how deep an individual wants to dive into that scent control regimen.
just playing the wind is as much scent control as Johnny Carbon’s whole list of things he does and pushes for people to practice.
one just takes a ton more time and effort
Do what works for you and dont ever knock anyone or any tactic another uses to give them confidence.
hunting as high as you can will definitely get you out of alot of scent problems and i know this is how John hunts.
Really No matter what studies are done there is no 100% of knowing what way or tactic is better.
( at least til deer start talking and telling us what or how they smell ).
i try to keep the wind in my face or crossing my face and setting up by doing alot of scouting and research of where the deer are coming from.
 
Robert loper said:
I say this to no offense to anyone nor am I questioning any knowledge or how to anyone has or has learned to make fthem over years of being afield in real life hunting situations
I honestly think the big so called gods of whitetails of social media have one huge advantages over most of us.
TIME.
Being able to hunt or scout every day snd traveling to different states to hunt for months and months is a bit more advantage than most of us here who only have time to hunt 2-3 sits max a week.
if i was able to hunt as much as some of these guys do I would most likely have a great looking trophy wall or probably room.

scent scent scent.
What works snd what doesn’t ?
if a high pressured deer gets any kind-of idea he is being hunted, he is going to most likley react by not frequenting that area during daylight hours.
scent control is a must for all of us. Its just how deep an individual wants to dive into that scent control regimen.
just playing the wind is as much scent control as Johnny Carbon’s whole list of things he does and pushes for people to practice.
one just takes a ton more time and effort
Do what works for you and dont ever knock anyone or any tactic another uses to give them confidence.
hunting as high as you can will definitely get you out of alot of scent problems and i know this is how John hunts.
Really No matter what studies are done there is no 100% of knowing what way or tactic is better.
( at least til deer start talking and telling us what or how they smell ).
i try to keep the wind in my face or crossing my face and setting up by doing alot of scouting and research of where the deer are coming from.
Click to expand...

If I could triple my time spent from 120 hours to 3-400 hours jn woods every year, I’d kill 20 bucks a season.

Agree 100% the big dogs are flat out obsessed and sacrifice many parts of a good life to chase deer.

Time is king
 
I want to say I'm in, but I feel like I'm still too dumb of a hunter to play the wind correctly. Perhaps thats a good thing for this type of "study", I'd definitely be in the non scentlock camp, more for budget than belief reasons
 
kyler1945 said:
If I could triple my time spent from 120 hours to 3-400 hours jn woods every year, I’d kill 20 bucks a season.

Agree 100% the big dogs are flat out obsessed and sacrifice many parts of a good life to chase deer.

Time is king
Click to expand...
Absolutely. If you want to be really good at anything in life you have to devote time and effort to it. We all have the same numbers of hours in the day. It's just how we choose to spend them. People will find the time and money to do what is really important to them.
 
This is my second year using ScentLok. I have JE scent regiment email and use most of his advice. But I also hunt the wind. But sometimes deer just dont show up where you expect them to. I have been busted while using ScentloK. But it was 75 deg and I was sweating like crazy. Other times when I wasn't sweating it has worked for me. My approach is i have to wear something why not wear scentlok and if it helps great, if it doesnt what have I hurt by wearing it. It really doesn't cause me any extra time to wear SL. As far as the cost goes, I couldn't wear any other quality camo for the price I pay for SL ( I buy sale items). Is there any downside to wearing it?
 
To do this property you'll need to do pure observation sits. No weapons. Need to do it with the same deer, same spots, as close to the same weather. Need aggressive scent control sits and non aggressive. Ideally same guy doing the sits but tag teams would probably more practical.
 
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