• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

I think it is time for a hiatus…

We're all big boys and girls.....we can make up our own minds. I prefer more opinions and conversation vs. less.

Agree. I think it’s easy to spot the rabid fanboys.

I just ask that the hash tags and product offers be kept out of it. Feel free to dress your deer in the diaper of choice when it’s picture time though.




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Speaking as a civilian on this matter, I think it's fine for vendors / vendor reps to comment on anything as long as it's obvious under their avatar or signature line that they are vendors / vendor's reps. We can all judge then if they are biased or at least be aware of any biases they have. Honestly, I don't even understand all these designations (pro staff / field staff / vendor rep / whatever). I don't know if some are paid or some get free stuff or what.

So, I do think it's important to know the affiliations so you can filter them out (in your mind) if you want just a regular hunter's opinion. But, I don't think they should be prevented from commenting. We're all big boys and girls.....we can make up our own minds. I prefer more opinions and conversation vs. less.
1000% agreed. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. A small thing to solve such a large % of the issues at work here.
 
all the cool guys have drifted off....... either don't post much anymore or are now feeling limited in what they can do. Really sad - I don't envy Red for what he has to juggle. The fact that now there are lots of gear options we did not used to have creates this firestorm of everyone wanting to post threads asking "which is better" - why don't we just ban all those posts instead - its as crazy as the existing policy.
 
I like the disclosure that a member is a vendor (or vendor rep) that the red tag provides. That gives me a heads up that they may have a brand bias, which I can take into account as I read what they have to say. But I DO want to hear what they have to share with us.

It seems to me that letting us know someone is a vendor should be adequate, especially if I can click on their profile to learn which manufacturers they represent.

Beyond that disclosure, I really don't want the vendors to be restricted from the forums, or from discussing their products. That's how the rest of us can learn about differences between products and how various products solve problems.

Can the mods and admins for the forum reconsider the restrictions on where the vendors and their "pro staff" product testers can post, and what they can discuss?

Keep the disclosures that they have relationships with manufacturers or sellers, but drop the restrictions on what and where they can post, unless it violates other community standards.
 
Can the mods and admins for the forum reconsider the restrictions on where the vendors and their "pro staff" product testers can post, and what they can discuss?

We can. We are constantly taking in feedback and discussing. As a mod, I do think this rule is important and pretty good as is. The reason I think it is fair is because the growth of saddle hunting, ushered by new vendors in the last couple of years, has also grown the operating cost of this website (which is supposed to be a hobby). There is a benefit to the vendors and to the users for vendors to be here, so we ask that they help keep the lights on by being SH Members as well.

As for what can be discussed, I believe there are less restrictions now than there were last week.
 
Sorry to hear this, @IkemanTX. I enjoy reading yours and all of the veteran saddle hunter contributions to the site.

@redsquirrel has a tough spot. The old saddle vets and some of the best senior contributors/DIY guys on this site are getting added to pro staff/design staff for good reason. At the same time, rules shouldn’t be selective.

Senior members of this forum are where it’s value lies. And vendor persuasion (intended selling or not) is what’s trying to be avoided.
 
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Speaking as a civilian on this matter, I think it's fine for vendors / vendor reps to comment on anything as long as it's obvious under their avatar or signature line that they are vendors / vendor's reps. We can all judge then if they are biased or at least be aware of any biases they have. Honestly, I don't even understand all these designations (pro staff / field staff / vendor rep / whatever). I don't know if some are paid or some get free stuff or what.

So, I do think it's important to know the affiliations so you can filter them out (in your mind) if you want just a regular hunter's opinion. But, I don't think they should be prevented from commenting. We're all big boys and girls.....we can make up our own minds. I prefer more opinions and conversation vs. less.

That's a really good point. I think I feel the same way.

It's usually pretty easy to tell when someone has genuine feedback, or recommends a product. Bias is almost always pretty easy to spot. But a well thought out and articulate case as to why a certain product, feature, or tactic should be used or avoided is generally helpful for everyone...regardless of what prostaff they happen to be a member.
 
I have never seen unanimous agreement on saddles on this forum and never will.
Sure prostaff may be biased or may not be but if I know they are prostaff and if they comment on anything I am confident I can sort through the truth and BS
Let people say what they want but acknowledge the possible bias.

One of the first pro staff members was Boswell. I know he had a bias but his contributions were valued

Bias doesn’t bother me. Nastiness does


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I just want to point out two things that appear to be quickly getting lost here.

#1- Vendors can absolutely do all of the things mentioned in this thread. They have just been asked to do SOME of it in the vendor section of the forum.

#2- These changes were a significant relaxation of the rules that have been in place for some time here. The rules just got less restrictive not more restrictive.
 
Speaking as a civilian on this matter, I think it's fine for vendors / vendor reps to comment on anything as long as it's obvious under their avatar or signature line that they are vendors / vendor's reps. We can all judge then if they are biased or at least be aware of any biases they have. Honestly, I don't even understand all these designations (pro staff / field staff / vendor rep / whatever). I don't know if some are paid or some get free stuff or what.

So, I do think it's important to know the affiliations so you can filter them out (in your mind) if you want just a regular hunter's opinion. But, I don't think they should be prevented from commenting. We're all big boys and girls.....we can make up our own minds. I prefer more opinions and conversation vs. less.

Very well said and I agree. I can make my own judgement on what someone is saying. When a product isn't even released yet the only people that you can get information from are the vendors or their reps.
 
Wow, this site has become a bit more complex. Had no idea about the vendor stuff. Only recently have I started to pop back on here to see what is going on. I wondered why some of the regulars were not posting as much anymore. Now I understand.

@IkemanTX , while I cannot understand exactly what you are writing about because I am not a vendor/prostaffer, I agree the environment is very different. Do what I do and just come on here every once in a while and see if there is anything interesting worth reading. Honestly, the only thing I care about are the DIY innovations. 2018 was a special time of good fun on this site. Man some great things came from here. It completely changed how I hunt and I thank you guys for sharing your incredible ideas. I kick myself for not changing to this style of hunting ten years ago.

Today saddlehunting has become commercialized, which is awesome because it opens up opportunities to those that would not have the means or willingness to saddle hunt otherwise. On the flip side, it made this forum like all others. It actually has been interesting to see how it evolved and how the threads all of a sudden had the same themes and questions as any other hunting site. All of sudden the for sale stuff increased, people were talking about clothing, etc. Sort of an evolution. Sigmond Freud would enjoy studying the phenomena :)

I will shut up now. Time to see if anybody posted anything new in the DIY section. Oh.... and you manufacturers can keep trying to come up with new innovations to make the best saddle; a DIY sitdrag still rules. And you can make them for like ten bucks. HA!

Pete
 
Ikemantx,
Sorry to hear this. We met a few years ago because of a shared devotion to this crazy saddle hunting. You a new guy and I, a saddle user since 07. We met over a lunch and became scouting and hunting friends, we have helped each other in many ways and I'm glad to call you a friend. We don't get to hunt as much together as we would like, life and schedules suck,lol. We do, when we can. I too, have been away from SH for awhile because of the same issues that happened to other forums I followed. The community here began as guys finding their way in saddle hunting, sharing ideas, experience and failures. That same energy and enthusiasm will overcome these growing pains. This new resurgence of saddle hunting was bound to create issues between people in equipment, tactics, etc. I joined this forum to be surrounded by others crazy like me, hunting from a diaper, as non- saddlers like to say. So take a break, let's go scouting, use that new smoker, buy some secret hunting gear,lol. Your friends here, will welcome you, when ready.

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@IkemanTX I would stick around. It’s just another time of growing pains and it will take some adjustments but it can easily be done. Worst case after the 25th of the month you get to screw up four times and it’s only permanent on the fifth. I use the what’s new page most of the time and that could get you in trouble posting replies without looking where they originated but it’s just one of those things we’ll have to learn to do.
 
As a member (and a new one at that) I can say that I am disappointed in the changes that are being made here that are driving people with significant knowledge and experience away. They are being told that they can not provide guidance, advise, or feedback outside their specific vendor forum. This is the only forum I participate on that has these restrictions, I can confidently say that the issues with vendors on those sites are very few and far between. The problems here seem to be self inflicted.

I do think it is reasonable to ask that vendors be asked to pay to register as a vendor to help support the site, this rate can be higher than the normal member rate (within reason). The vendors should be asked to agree to a code of conduct which basically keeps the bashing out of the conversation. If they violate that policy they are warned and suspended, step over the line again and they get banned.

Asking pro staff members and field reps to pay the normal member fees and asking them to live up to the same code of conduct as vendors with the same potential consequences will keep them in line.

Also include that any regular member that is slamming vendors (or any other member for that matter) is suspended and then banned for future offenses.

I think any other policy (such as what it in place now) is ultimately damaging to the forum as a whole. This is a community, if we can't get along with those simple rules then we were doomed from the start.

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Speaking as a civilian on this matter, I think it's fine for vendors / vendor reps to comment on anything as long as it's obvious under their avatar or signature line that they are vendors / vendor's reps. We can all judge then if they are biased or at least be aware of any biases they have. Honestly, I don't even understand all these designations (pro staff / field staff / vendor rep / whatever). I don't know if some are paid or some get free stuff or what.

So, I do think it's important to know the affiliations so you can filter them out (in your mind) if you want just a regular hunter's opinion. But, I don't think they should be prevented from commenting. We're all big boys and girls.....we can make up our own minds. I prefer more opinions and conversation vs. less.
Agreed . Im brand new but I think the BIG OL' RED- VENDOR REP flag under someones name says enough. I like hearing from reps and vendors along with those aren't loyal to 1 brand. That's how things evolve. Maybe the vendors have some new insight or more experience with a certain product im interested in and its good to have competition. I can pick and chose what I want to read, believe and question. Promote your brand. Wear it proud. Be able to support and answer questions, show off the "pros" but be able to OWN the " Cons" . Its how saddles and saddle hunting will grow. BUT any negative **** can stay in highschool.
 
As a member (and a new one at that) I can say that I am disappointed in the changes that are being made here that are driving people with significant knowledge and experience away. They are being told that they can not provide guidance, advise, or feedback outside their specific vendor forum. This is the only forum I participate on that has these restrictions, I can confidently say that the issues with vendors on those sites are very few and far between. The problems here seem to be self inflicted.

I do think it is reasonable to ask that vendors be asked to pay to register as a vendor to help support the site, this rate can be higher than the normal member rate (within reason). The vendors should be asked to agree to a code of conduct which basically keeps the bashing out of the conversation. If they violate that policy they are warned and suspended, step over the line again and they get banned.

Asking pro staff members and field reps to pay the normal member fees and asking them to live up to the same code of conduct as vendors with the same potential consequences will keep them in line.

Also include that any regular member that is slamming vendors (or any other member for that matter) is suspended and then banned for future offenses.

I think any other policy (such as what it in place now) is ultimately damaging to the forum as a whole. This is a community, if we can't get along with those simple rules then we were doomed from the start.

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Hey Chief. You hit the nail right on the head. I hope @redsquirrel and the mods strongly consider your input. This comes from many years of true deckplate leadership. knowing the mission, knowing their Sailors and developing them beyond their expectations as a team and as individuals.

Oh and lots of PMK-EE
 
Agreed . Im brand new but I think the BIG OL' RED- VENDOR REP flag under someones name says enough. I like hearing from reps and vendors along with those aren't loyal to 1 brand. That's how things evolve. Maybe the vendors have some new insight or more experience with a certain product im interested in and its good to have competition. I can pick and chose what I want to read, believe and question. Promote your brand. Wear it proud. Be able to support and answer questions, show off the "pros" but be able to OWN the " Cons" . Its how saddles and saddle hunting will grow. BUT any negative **** can stay in highschool.
Agreed, except I have no idea what you are referring to when you see a big red vendor rep flag. I see no such identifier, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

Attach a clear commercial label to all company affiliates, that is visible in all viewable formats including Tapatalk, and the vast majority of issues here go away.
 
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