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U.S. Forest Service Land - No hunting beyond this point signs from land, no signs from water

Sounds like a recreation buffer. If I were you I would accept the fact I knew it was closed to hunting and would not hunt it. Driving to a ramp 6 miles away by river to avoid the no hunting signs isn’t going to work as a defense.
 
Also, you need to consult DNR or the FS for maps showing what is WMA and open for hunting. I’m not sure how AL is set up so I can’t give you any more details than that, but the point I’m getting at is if the entire lake isn’t a recreation area there may well be areas that aren’t buffered that you will be able to hunt.
 
I had a funny reply typed out about dalton being a USFS dude. And then he types out a reasonable response. :)
 
dalton916 said:
Sounds like a recreation buffer. If I were you I would accept the fact I knew it was closed to hunting and would not hunt it. Driving to a ramp 6 miles away by river to avoid the no hunting signs isn’t going to work as a defense.
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Sorry I can't be more clear in my writing. I am describing multiple situations here. I am not traveling 6 miles to get away or avoid no hunting signs. If you would go re-read my original post maybe it would show that.

1. Where I launch is in a recreational area and they have signs on the road directly adjacent to it that say no hunting as a buffer zone for the recreational area. I have not nor do I have any desire to hunt near recreation zones. I think most of the prohibited hunted signs correspond with the recreation zones; however, if there is land that is no where near a buffer zone but was prohibited for another reason I would not know it was prohibited unless I came in from the road side.

2. I launch and drive my boat to other areas that are forest land that are not near any recreational area and as far as I know are open to hunt. Some of these pieces of land are surrounded by private land so there is no road access. If there is land that had both boat and land access I would not know that the land prohibits hunting unless I came by land.

Again I can't stress enough that I am not trying to hunt land marked "no hunting beyond this point" I am just saying that I will need to do more due diligence to drive the roads if I am going to know that they are marked one way or another.
 
Jesus man, if you’re that damn sensitive then maybe you should just stop seeking help.

I’m simply trying to help you. Well, was simply trying to help you. Again, good luck.
 
dalton916 said:
Jesus man, if you’re that damn sensitive then maybe you should just stop seeking help.

I’m simply trying to help you. Well, was simply trying to help you. Again, good luck.
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Deleted my post, I read your first post as accusatory. When I went back and read my original post, it does read as if I was seeking justification for hunting places where it is prohibited and that really wasn't my intent. Thanks for the input and sorry I read to much into it.
 
It’s all good.

Absolutely. There’s a myriad of reason why an area may be buffered including, but not limited to, endangered species (plant or animal), hazards (abandoned wells, for one), archaeological, etc.

Passing this information on to those who would be accessing these areas can be difficult if the areas are large and accessible by multiple paths. In my state the USFS land is WMA and is published, patrolled and administered by DNR who publishes maps showing what you can and can not hunt. They get the Shapefiles used to delineate the lands from the FS and DNR here usually does NOT do the extra needed to delineate safety zones. They instead rely on signage.

LE *usually understands the difficulty of conveying all this to the public in a way that makes it obvious to everyone so you will simply get asked to leave the safety zone if they find you hunting in it if there’s any gray area. Now if you’re parked next to a sign….different story, lol.

NF land is open to all so we’re not going to try and keep other user groups off the land while the hunting user group is on it and this is the reason for the safety zones in areas where non hunting users are being concentrated.

I don’t really know of any FS maps specifically relating to safety zones existing so the best recourse is to find the LE responsible for game law enforcement (DNR or it’s equivalent or USFS) and asking them. Just know that the USFS wants you using the property and your state DNR does as well so they will both be helpful.
 
dalton916 said:
It’s all good.

Absolutely. There’s a myriad of reason why an area may be buffered including, but not limited to, endangered species (plant or animal), hazards (abandoned wells, for one), archaeological, etc.

Passing this information on to those who would be accessing these areas can be difficult if the areas are large and accessible by multiple paths. In my state the USFS land is WMA and is published, patrolled and administered by DNR who publishes maps showing what you can and can not hunt. They get the Shapefiles used to delineate the lands from the FS and DNR here usually does NOT do the extra needed to delineate safety zones. They instead rely on signage.

LE *usually understands the difficulty of conveying all this to the public in a way that makes it obvious to everyone so you will simply get asked to leave the safety zone if they find you hunting in it if there’s any gray area. Now if you’re parked next to a sign….different story, lol.

NF land is open to all so we’re not going to try and keep other user groups off the land while the hunting user group is on it and this is the reason for the safety zones in areas where non hunting users are being concentrated.

I don’t really know of any FS maps specifically relating to safety zones existing so the best recourse is to find the LE responsible for game law enforcement (DNR or it’s equivalent or USFS) and asking them. Just know that the USFS wants you using the property and your state DNR does as well so they will both be helpful.
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Thanks for the additional info.

Though the USFS land I am hunting has a WMA section control by state DNR, there is a whole other half that is just regular ole forest land where state regulations apply unless otherwise specified. Like I said earlier, I will ride the back roads of the area I know I will want to hunt (if available) and ensure that they are not posted prohibiting hunting. If I see signage saying it’s prohibited I’m not going to hunt it anyway. Most of the area I hunt are small pieces of forest land surround by private and I can walk the perimeter easily enough and have in the past. This really would apply to new areas I would want to hunt that are also accessible by land. That’s the only way I think I can ensure that there is no signage posted.

Do USFS have watercraft? I’ve never seen one so I am curious.
 
So have you called the local enforcement and asked him about the issue yet? Are we planning on hunting it or just making a case study?

I'll throw this in there. All sins may be equal in the eyes of God but my experience is that's not the case with LEOs. Kinda in line with what dalton said, the state/feds want the public to utilize the land. But they want people to do so safely and in a way that doesn't diminish the value of the land. If you're littering, baiting target practicing, hunting too close to a campground, or parking so that you block access, you will in all likelihood not enjoy your encounter with The Man. But there are enough silly rules on the books that 99% of hunters technically deserve tickets. Orange hat with green trim under the bill? Technically illegal. Gun in a case in the back seat while you're driving the wma but you just dropped the mag out without removing the rounds from it? Technically illegal. Walking out of the woods at night with a light? Technically illegal. Walking through the woods and crossing a dirt road while carrying a loaded gun? Technically illegal.

But if when you get stopped you can promptly provide the correct licenses, you're wearing your orange, you have your safety harness, you're polite, and you're not doing something blatantly illegal, you will in all likelihood at most get a friendly, "Just for your information in the future...have a nice day and be safe" talk.

If I was in your shoes and thought it was taxpayer-funded land that had deer, I'd make some phone calls. If the answer was anything more than an absolute "Yes" or "No" I'd wait a week and email so I had a written response that proved I had tried to get the answer and been given an ambiguous response. Then I'd hunt it making sure I was minding my Ps and Qs in all other regards and if stopped and asked what exactly I thought I was doing, I'd have that email on my phone to show The Man and at worst take the ticket.

That may sound "lame." But I've only had 1 ticket in 14 years of being an "adult" hunter responsible for my own actions. What you're doing sounds less injurious to society than a busted tail light or doing 55 in a 50 or not buckling up to drive to the corner gas station. It's not worth thinking too hard about it.
 
For those following along, keep in mind that in the case of lakes the USFS may very well NOT be the owner of the lake. Most likely it will be a power company or COE owned lake and their property line will extend to a certain contour or some derivation thereof.

This will place a strip of land under different ownership between the water and the NF boundary and the USFS is not in the business of placing signs or paint on property owned by others other than immediately along said boundary. Because of this the NF land may well be back there, but you will likely not be able to see the boundary from the water.
 
Pretty straightforward. Make two phone calls. First call is to the governing body/agency that oversees the land. Second call is to the exact LEO that would (or would not) be writing you the ticket. Take information from first call and verify with second call.
 
I only ever ran into this one time. I was going to hunt a piece of land that was adjacent to a recreational area that I knew got hunted by others by boat. I had never been there before and because it was recreational area adjacent I was skeptical that it was open for hunting. I say skeptical because the land adjacent to the recreational area I typically launch my boat at has the immediate surrounding land posted. I don’t hunt near the recreational area however I only launch there.

So I went in the afternoon by land to this new area near a different Recreational are and saw it was in fact posted. I know the guy that hunts the land and he has taken many deer from it. I’m not sure whether or not he knows it’s posted or not. The area across the street was not posted so I did still get to hunt that say but it was not in the posted area.

it seems like the main reason for it being posted is being near a recreational area. With that said I think I’ll be perfectly fine because I don’t hunt near rec areas.
 
Nutterbuster said:
So have you called the local enforcement and asked him about the issue yet? Are we planning on hunting it or just making a case study?

I'll throw this in there. All sins may be equal in the eyes of God but my experience is that's not the case with LEOs. Kinda in line with what dalton said, the state/feds want the public to utilize the land. But they want people to do so safely and in a way that doesn't diminish the value of the land. If you're littering, baiting target practicing, hunting too close to a campground, or parking so that you block access, you will in all likelihood not enjoy your encounter with The Man. But there are enough silly rules on the books that 99% of hunters technically deserve tickets. Orange hat with green trim under the bill? Technically illegal. Gun in a case in the back seat while you're driving the wma but you just dropped the mag out without removing the rounds from it? Technically illegal. Walking out of the woods at night with a light? Technically illegal. Walking through the woods and crossing a dirt road while carrying a loaded gun? Technically illegal.

But if when you get stopped you can promptly provide the correct licenses, you're wearing your orange, you have your safety harness, you're polite, and you're not doing something blatantly illegal, you will in all likelihood at most get a friendly, "Just for your information in the future...have a nice day and be safe" talk.

If I was in your shoes and thought it was taxpayer-funded land that had deer, I'd make some phone calls. If the answer was anything more than an absolute "Yes" or "No" I'd wait a week and email so I had a written response that proved I had tried to get the answer and been given an ambiguous response. Then I'd hunt it making sure I was minding my Ps and Qs in all other regards and if stopped and asked what exactly I thought I was doing, I'd have that email on my phone to show The Man and at worst take the ticket.

That may sound "lame." But I've only had 1 ticket in 14 years of being an "adult" hunter responsible for my own actions. What you're doing sounds less injurious to society than a busted tail light or doing 55 in a 50 or not buckling up to drive to the corner gas station. It's not worth thinking too hard about it.
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No need to call anyone if the land is posted and I know it’s posted. That’s pretty cut and dry.
If I decide to hunt near a recreational area I will call and get permission or verify the area of interest isnt posted.

I will say that every interaction that I have had with USFS, AL DCNR, and USFWS has given me no reason to believe that they want anyone to use “their” land. I haven’t gotten any tickets or done anything illegal warranting them but I have met some of the rudest public land officers,workers, volunteers you name it. If anything I would say they made it seem as if they would prefer if you just didn’t bother stepping on “their” land. I try to avoid all of the aforementioned parties as much as possible.
 
gcr0003 said:
I will say that every interaction that I have had with USFS, AL DCNR, and USFWS has given me no reason to believe that they want anyone to use “their” land
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Including the multiple PMs we shared this afternoon?

There’s a common denominator in “every interaction” you mention.
 
dalton916 said:
Including the multiple PMs we shared this afternoon?

There’s a common denominator in “every interaction” you mention.
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I wasn't lumping you in with that! I just meant folks I've ran into in person. I am always respectful, yes sir, no sir, yes mam, no mam, I just seem to have a way of catching people on a bad day I suppose. I am not as big of a bser or sweet talker as @Nutterbuster I guess.

I am probably being melodramatic saying "every". I did have one good interaction with a USFS ranger during covid when they were shutting down the campgrounds. He had to kick us out but he drove us to another campground that wasn't closed down and didn't ticket us. I just meant that most of my interactions are not the most positive.
 
gcr0003 said:
No need to call anyone if the land is posted and I know it’s posted. That’s pretty cut and dry.
If I decide to hunt near a recreational area I will call and get permission or verify the area of interest isnt posted.

I will say that every interaction that I have had with USFS, AL DCNR, and USFWS has given me no reason to believe that they want anyone to use “their” land. I haven’t gotten any tickets or done anything illegal warranting them but I have met some of the rudest public land officers,workers, volunteers you name it. If anything I would say they made it seem as if they would prefer if you just didn’t bother stepping on “their” land. I try to avoid all of the aforementioned parties as much as possible.
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The Feds here in Alabama for sure like hikers better than hunters. But anybody who can write you a game ticket is probably state.

I'll throw this out there too. If you have confrontational folks working an area they're probably that way because they deal with a-holes all day. Might be some of my cousins up there poaching that property and riling folks up. Lock your doors and don't leave anything shiny in view on the seat.
 
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