Do you tie off your saddle to the end of your tether?

[slonstdy]

From how I read the Ops original question, I took it as the climb is over and I'm on my ros in kill mode. At that point I tie a loop directly to the bridge from my rappel line (used as a tether) to have a backup attachment in case my primary attachment between the two fails. I do this because in my thirty three years working in heavy industry I have seen that almost all accidents have been from human induced errors and not from equipment failures so it's really protecting me from me!

In the event that direct connection is needed to save me, the fall will realistically be less than three inches and I should come out of it with nothing more than soiled shorts and a good story to post here.

 

[Plebe]

Sorry guys, this thread is killing me.....I had to comment, I know I said I"d stay out of it....but...

Just use a figure-8 on a bite as the stopper knot at the bottom of the tether below the friction hitch with a barrel backup and clip a locking biner to it and whatever you decide to be your "anchor" point on your saddle....Ideally this would be a point on your saddle that ties your "full strength", "Rated" (yeah right...) leg loops into your waist belt, so should you fall the pressure is spread through the seat of the "Harness" and forces you into almost a sitting position.

Wait a second, rated leg loops might actually matter in a fall situation? Those RCH manufacturers must have really been onto something FIFTY years ago...

Thank goodness. Finally, someone who will just tell us what to do!

Come on herd, to the cliff! Lol.

Just when I was thinking the Kong Slyde was savior, I can hunt with my $350 saddle afterall.

Hmm, what to do about Tethr #2?

 

[Vtbow]

9 pages and only 2 real photos....nobody has.any pics showing visual learners like me how to safely/correctly tie off the tail end of ur tether?

I believe the issue with there not being any photos is current production saddles don't really have a "safe" way of doing it correctly.

Thank goodness. Finally, someone who will just tell us what to do!

Come on herd, to the cliff! Lol.

Just when I was thinking the Kong Slyde was savior, I can hunt with my $350 saddle afterall.

Hmm, what to do about Tethr #2?

Can't decide if this is realism or sarcasm....

Sorry don't have any pictures though!

 

[Plebe]

I believe the issue with there not being any photos is current production saddles don't really have a "safe" way of doing it correctly.
Can't decide if this is realism or sarcasm....

Sorry don't have any pictures though!

Just having a laugh at how troublesome the logics can be, and how many folks (like me) really don’t know up from down.

I like your bringing it back to center.

But, I do happen to have a Slyde thanks to the Ultralight Climbing 2.0 thread, and am interested in trying that connection (at underground level of course).

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

You're right I guess I wasn't paying attention in class. A lot of information to digest so I didn't realize the screamer was completely invalidated for this purpose. But yes, a 200lb man falling only three feet generates approximately 1800lbs of force but I believe the DMM ripstop is rated for higher than that?? Says on this add rated at 22Kn??? https://www.backcountrygear.com/ripstop.html What about two screamers??? I'm not trying to be funny but just trying to figure out add ons that don't require us to completely revamp our systems. I'm thinking through this with you not criticizing. Somebody needs to put together a flow chart or better yet, a pictorial of what we should be doing. I am visual. I am not a professional climber, arborist etc. and I don't play one on youtube.

Yes sir I understand. Sorry for the confusion on my part. I will have to research some more on this. I would definitely like to assist with a flow chart or with finding available information for safer systems or add ons. I am afraid unfortunately finding a definitive yes or no on gear is going to be very hard to come by. I believe some of this will require emails to the manufacturers of these products. Perhaps they have ideas or inventions that none of us are aware of? Anyway I’ll do some research and report back

 

[Weldabeast]

I believe the issue with there not being any photos is current production saddles don't really have a "safe" way of doing it correctly.
Can't decide if this is realism or sarcasm....

Sorry don't have any pictures though!

42 peeps voted yes

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Just so everyone knows, I have reached out to DMM’s international customer service email, describing my intended use of its rip stop screamer. I explained that it will see a continuous use burden of less than 136 kg (300 lbs) and a worse case scenario fall of 1 meter at a 1.5:1 fall factor or less. When they respond I will update this thread. By comparison to the Yates screamers, which are estimated 2-3kN reduction and a total break strength of 7kN, the DMM says it’s tensile strength is 22kN which is along the lines of our saddles. I also asked them for an estimated force reduction on a fall like we would sustain since their website doesn’t list an estimated reduction in force.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I understand but it is still an alternative means of back up connection.

Just so I understand, are you asking what if you add a screamer on a separate prusik above your origin ascender/friction hitch so that it is not your primary tie in, but is instead an additional arrestor in the fall instead of the primary tie in?

 

[woodsdog2]

Just so I understand, are you asking what if you add a screamer on a separate prusik above your origin ascender/friction hitch so that it is not your primary tie in, but is instead an additional arrestor in the fall instead of the primary tie in?

Yes sir. I know it still doesn't account for the single point of issue (our tether) being our sole connection; however, In the higher chance of a slip or fall out of or off a platform or ROS, stick etc., I believe it would help. Just so I'm clear on how I hook/hooked mine up (off and on through the season) I had a rope prussic above my Ropeman 1 mechanical prussic. To that I had a climb rated biner, my DMM Ripstop and then another biner to my two bridges. I did this just before season last year because I was reading people were having issues with their mechanical prussics and keep tension on them or entering slack in the system. Just figured I would enter some purposeful redundancy into my overall system when one sticking up. Please note I did take my ripstop off once at hunting height and all set up. My concern last year was the slack issue during one sticking. I also half thought that the rope prussic above my mechanical prussic some how was providing a little bit more climb integrity into my overall system as the higher use "business end" of my tether and mechanical prussic were getting all of the constant force and abrasion. The rope prussic above and in the better and much less utilized and abraided section of my tether seemed a more logical hookup. But again, I'm still completely relying on that single tether. Did I climb with my LB while one sticking. No. Should I have? Yes. But its a PITA. The DMM Ripstop above on a rope prussic and also binered to my two brdges gave me a little peace of mind.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Yes sir. I know it still doesn't account for the single point of issue (our tether) being our sole connection; however, In the higher chance of a slip or fall out of or off a platform or ROS, stick etc., I believe it would help. Just so I'm clear on how I hook/hooked mine up (off and on through the season) I had a rope prussic above my Ropeman 1 mechanical prussic. To that I had a climb rated biner, my DMM Ripstop and then another biner to my two bridges. I did this just before season last year because I was reading people were having issues with their mechanical prussics and keep tension on them or entering slack in the system. Just figured I would enter some purposeful redundancy into my overall system when one sticking up. Please note I did take my ripstop off once at hunting height and all set up. My concern last year was the slack issue during one sticking. I also half thought that the rope prussic above my mechanical prussic some how was providing a little bit more climb integrity into my overall system as the higher use "business end" of my tether and mechanical prussic were getting all of the constant force and abrasion. The rope prussic above and in the better and much less utilized and abraided section of my tether seemed a more logical hookup. But again, I'm still completely relying on that single tether. Did I climb with my LB while one sticking. No. Should I have? Yes. But its a PITA. The DMM Ripstop above on a rope prussic and also binered to my two brdges gave me a little peace of mind.

Now your use is completely different than what others have described here. So if you fell, your mechanical and rope would take the initial spike it if the prusik above with the DMM was taut (not fully holding weight but tight enough that it would grab during rope stretch) then you have used it closer to a manner in which it was designed. The single point of connection (ie: what this post was originally polling) is not a main concern in my eyes as long as there is a stopper knot at the end of the lanyard. The bigger concern for me was slack while one sticking and especially the idea that a screamer being the primary connection/shock absorber would be ok. So if I were to use a screamer, it would be in the manner in which you described. The sad thing is, none of these things rectify the fact that a saddle still isn’t designed to arrest a fall

 

[woodsdog2]

Now your use is completely different than what others have described here. So if you fell, your mechanical and rope would take the initial spike it if the prusik above with the DMM was taut (not fully holding weight but tight enough that it would grab during rope stretch) then you have used it closer to a manner in which it was designed. The single point of connection (ie: what this post was originally polling) is not a main concern in my eyes as long as there is a stopper knot at the end of the lanyard. The bigger concern for me was slack while one sticking and especially the idea that a screamer being the primary connection/shock absorber would be ok. So if I were to use a screamer, it would be in the manner in which you described. The sad thing is, none of these things rectify the fact that a saddle still isn’t designed to arrest a fall

Glad my thinking about this was somewhat logical.

 

[Bdwilliams]

Would a saddle that included tie-in loops and a belay loop be a step in the right direction? Using a single tether, a figure-8 tied into that loop gives a second point to tie into. It's not ideal, but assuming saddles had leg loops rated for that application... I'm just looking at my Kite and RCH. Also, why aren't we using dynamic ropes for our tethers? They're short so the amount of stretch is limited, but if we're trying (on our own) to absorb force...

Is this the road I should start going down/researching?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Would a saddle that included tie-in loops and a belay loop be a step in the right direction? Using a single tether, a figure-8 tied into that loop gives a second point to tie into. It's not ideal, but assuming saddles had leg loops rated for that application... I'm just looking at my Kite and RCH. Also, why aren't we using dynamic ropes for our tethers? They're short so the amount of stretch is limited, but if we're trying (on our own) to absorb force...

Is this the road I should start going down/researching?

We have gone around and around that very topic in these 11 pages lol. If you get bored and have time, read them and it’ll address both of the excellent points you just made

 

[gcr0003]

Would a saddle that included tie-in loops and a belay loop be a step in the right direction? Using a single tether, a figure-8 tied into that loop gives a second point to tie into. It's not ideal, but assuming saddles had leg loops rated for that application... I'm just looking at my Kite and RCH. Also, why aren't we using dynamic ropes for our tethers? They're short so the amount of stretch is limited, but if we're trying (on our own) to absorb force...

Is this the road I should start going down/researching?

There are very few scenarios where you would have a slack tether while saddle hunting once you’re in the tree.
This thread seemed to be more geared to if your tether failed what would happen? For this scenario I think tying back into your bridge with your tag end, having two bridges, or even having two tether connections is going to be the redundancy for this concern.

Redundancy in your saddle could be accomplished too but you might have to get a little more creative.

 

[Bdwilliams]

Yeah. I've been along for the ride for the whole thread. I'll re-read. I just haven't given much thought to this before now. Totally on me.

My previous redundancy has been two prussics on my bridge. When I had a sit-drag and RCH, one prussic was on my belay loop. I wish my saddle had a better point to attach to my tether than the bridge...

But, I rarely have much slack in my tether while hunting. Climbing up is probably when things will go awry. Or transitioning to my platform.

 

[gcr0003]

Yeah. I've been along for the ride for the whole thread. I'll re-read. I just haven't given much thought to this before now. Totally on me.

My previous redundancy has been two prussics on my bridge. When I had a sit-drag and RCH, one prussic was on my belay loop. I wish my saddle had a better point to attach to my tether than the bridge...

But, I rarely have much slack in my tether while hunting. Climbing up is probably when things will go awry. Or transitioning to my platform.

Great to see people doing their due diligence. I don't know if I would go back in read all of those 10 pages myself, it might make you want to jump off of a bridge instead of adding redundancy to your bridge if you know what I mean. <--- this is a joke

Do you use sticks and a linemans belt?
Do you attach your tether before transitioning to your platform?
Are you looking for redundancy in your saddle(bridge) as well as your tether?

 

[kyler1945]

its my understanding the ripstop will offer a maximum force reduction of roughly 2.5kN.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

its my understanding the ripstop will offer a maximum force reduction of roughly 2.5kN.

I am thinking it’s along those lines as well, their website no longer has them listed and they are “close out” on the backcountry gear site which leads me to believe they are no longer in production

 

[philsanchez76]

Just so everyone knows, I have reached out to DMM’s international customer service email, describing my intended use of its rip stop screamer. I explained that it will see a continuous use burden of less than 136 kg (300 lbs) and a worse case scenario fall of 1 meter at a 1.5:1 fall factor or less. When they respond I will update this thread. By comparison to the Yates screamers, which are estimated 2-3kN reduction and a total break strength of 7kN, the DMM says it’s tensile strength is 22kN which is along the lines of our saddles. I also asked them for an estimated force reduction on a fall like we would sustain since their website doesn’t list an estimated reduction in force.

Cool thanks for doing that. Very interested to see what they say. Also the Yates screamers are rated at 26kn once open in loop configuration. It’s the Yates scream aid that is only 7kn.

 

[Bdwilliams]

Using sticks with single step aiders on each, and climbing with a lineman's belt. I'm tethered when transitioning to my platform but in the process, that's when I probably have the most slack in my tether.

I'm just thinking about places to add a little redundancy and absorb shock. Honestly, it'll be the lineman's and climbing sticks that'll get me. There's a point on every stick where my lineman's is lower than I'd like.