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For the wind and odor guys

Allegheny Tom

Allegheny Tom

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
6,039
Location
Western Pennsylvania
I was gonna post this in the Scent control section but I think it fits better in the Deer Hunting section.
It's a common discussion on forums...hunting the wind versus odor reduction versus utilizing both concepts.
Alan Altizer has yet another amazing podcast on The Stickboys.
I've contended that very few "just hunt the wind" guys truly understand wind patterns. I'll also say that most odor reduction guys have a lot of overlooked details of their approach to minimizing odor.
I doubt that there are many guys on this forum that will listen to this podcast and not get an "a-ha!" moment. For some guys this podcast will be a mind-blowing revelation.

It makes me feel comforted when I hear guys like Altizer saying a lot of the same stuff I've preached for years.
thestickboys.libsyn.com

the stickboys podcast: Woodsmanship, Ep 88

This week we sit down with our buddy Alan Altizer for a deep dive into utilizing marginal winds to hunt mature bucks. Alan goes in depth explaining this much overlooked tactic, and explains the advantages along with all the little details you should consider when exploiting this to get close to...
thestickboys.libsyn.com
 
Often we get a little ambitious thinking we can truly figure out deer, especially mature bucks. With perfect knowledge, everything is understandable and perfectly predictable, but we're so far from having perfect knowledge when it comes to deer.

There are a few simple and general axioms I hold:
  • Deer move more closer to sunup/sundown than they do in the middle of the day
  • Deer are uncomfortable with human odors
  • Weather changes impact deer movement
  • Bucks move more during the rut
  • Hunting in an area with more deer/mature bucks increases the likelihood of encountering deer/mature bucks

I'm not the best hunter and don't keep meticulous notes that I later analyze to establish statistical significance, but these are the 5 things that I have a high degree of confidence in. Beyond this, I think there's a lot of speculation and confusion between correlation and causation.
 
Last edited:
Allegheny Tom said:
I was gonna post this in the Scent control section but I think it fits better in the Deer Hunting section.
It's a common discussion on forums...hunting the wind versus odor reduction versus utilizing both concepts.
Alan Altizer has yet another amazing podcast on The Stickboys.
I've contended that very few "just hunt the wind" guys truly understand wind patterns. I'll also say that most odor reduction guys have a lot of overlooked details of their approach to minimizing odor.
I doubt that there are many guys on this forum that will listen to this podcast and not get an "a-ha!" moment. For some guys this podcast will be a mind-blowing revelation.

It makes me feel comforted when I hear guys like Altizer saying a lot of the same stuff I've preached for years.
thestickboys.libsyn.com

the stickboys podcast: Woodsmanship, Ep 88

This week we sit down with our buddy Alan Altizer for a deep dive into utilizing marginal winds to hunt mature bucks. Alan goes in depth explaining this much overlooked tactic, and explains the advantages along with all the little details you should consider when exploiting this to get close to...
thestickboys.libsyn.com
Click to expand...
Love this podcast. I’ll listen later today.
 
Anobody said:
Wind is one thing, thermals are another. Topography, water, shadows to lighted areas and vice verse all play a huge role. Lots of subtle differences to watch out for sure
Click to expand...
I guess my main point of starting this thread and sharing the link was to discuss just how complex wind patterns are. I still don't believe that the "just hunt the wind" guys REALLY know the big picture of what the wind is doing.
To take it deeper, the elite bowhunters are often setting up just barely off of being busted. Wensel says the best wind is one thats ALMOST wrong for him and ALMOST right for the deer.
That puts our scent cone in a very precarious angle in relation to deer movement. Even when we are pretty accomplished at wind analysis, we still have deer get in the fringes of the fringes of our scent cone. That's where maticulous odor reduction can pay off.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
To take it deeper, the elite bowhunters are often setting up just barely off of being busted. Wensel says the best wind is one thats ALMOST wrong for him and ALMOST right for the deer.
That puts our scent cone in a very precarious angle in relation to deer movement.
Click to expand...
Confucius say -“ in order to hunt the wind, you must first know exactly where the deer are.”
 
I had 3 small bucks come past me on the first day of the season Saturday. The wind was running parallel to the trail I was watching. They were moving with the wind at there backs and since I let them go they ended up downwind of me. No sign of them picking up my scent at all. FYI I am a religious about scent control.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I guess my main point of starting this thread and sharing the link was to discuss just how complex wind patterns are. I still don't believe that the "just hunt the wind" guys REALLY know the big picture of what the wind is doing.
To take it deeper, the elite bowhunters are often setting up just barely off of being busted. Wensel says the best wind is one thats ALMOST wrong for him and ALMOST right for the deer.
That puts our scent cone in a very precarious angle in relation to deer movement. Even when we are pretty accomplished at wind analysis, we still have deer get in the fringes of the fringes of our scent cone. That's where maticulous odor reduction can pay off.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed that, I have a stand that’s dynamite & makes a bit more sense why. It’s situated kind of how he described the parallel wind with the bump out to get around an obstacle…..
 
I have always been the most scent free I can be. I still got busted more times than not. Probaly wasn't as detailed as I needed to be. It was alot of extra work, and I did the work. This year I am going to back off a little and just play the wind, thermals, cover. I think back and actually front cover is really important in a tree. I want to concentrate on that more also.
That's a great saying from Wensel. I have heard Infalt say a similar saying.

Wensel says the best wind is one thats ALMOST wrong for him and ALMOST right for the deer.
 
sdonx said:
...... This year I am going to back off a little and just play the wind, thermals, cover. I think back and actually front cover is really important in a tree. I want to concentrate on that more also.
That's a great saying from Wensel. I have heard Infalt say a similar saying.

Wensel says the best wind is one thats ALMOST wrong for him and ALMOST right for the deer.
Click to expand...

Just curious if you actually listened to the podcast?

And Wensels were killing big whitetails when Dan was just a twinkle in his dad's eye.
 
Nope, not yet, premature comment I guess...lol sorry.
At my desk, just hit something I have been thinking about.
 
sdonx said:
Nope, not yet, premature comment I guess...lol sorry.
At my desk, just hit something I have been thinking about.
Click to expand...
Haha, no problem. I fully support the concept of hunting the wind, but listen to the podcast and I'll bet you you'll have a different perspective on just how well you actually understand wind behavior and how (or if) to hunt a particular stand under different conditions. I doubt very many guys even take sun/cloud cover into account when they choose a stand, or for how long in the day a stand can be hunted due to thermal adjustments.
 
I have not listened yet, but will tonight. I have also been the guy to scuff at "hunt the wind" only guys. I hunt the wind, but I am also very very careful about scent control. You need a healthy mix of both.
I have also been the guy when I am teaching someone to hunt, I make a campfire. The wind changes direction every 5 seconds, watch the smoke. You can't just hunt the wind.
Also, how many hunting stories have the line "the deer came from the complete opposite direction I thought he would come from". How do you "hunt the wind" on that scenario?
 
I have a feeling this is going to suck me back in to serious scent control.:fearscream:
 
sdonx said:
I have a feeling this is going to suck me back in to serious scent control.:fearscream:
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not. The more you understand (truly understand) the complexities of wind behavior, you might actually find some stand locations that allow less scent reduction. But after listening to Altizer, we realize that thermals are waaayyy more complicated that they fall in the evening and rise in the morning. As complex as wind patterns are in of themselves, tie into the puzzle of access routes, weather fronts, and a slew of other factors.

It also depends on the herd that you are hunting. Highly pressured, mature deer are tougher to hunt than low pressured or young deer. Mature bucks often require us to live dangerously when it comes to hunting the wind. Sometimes we need to the hunt wind in a manner that seems downright risky. Those are the times we might want to be a little more (or a lot more) odor aware.

Nobody is saying that someone must hunt a certain way, but for the guy that doesn't mind making a little more effort, I believe they can be more successful.
 
will listen after work, thank you. i can confidently say that after saturday i do NOT understand the wind. set up one way, wind switches, i shift setup around tree, wind switches again, and again, and ultimately I got a first hand reminder of how thermals can be confusing as all get out. definitely an area with more to learn.
 
thedutchtouch said:
will listen after work, thank you. i can confidently say that after saturday i do NOT understand the wind. set up one way, wind switches, i shift setup around tree, wind switches again, and again, and ultimately I got a first hand reminder of how thermals can be confusing as all get out. definitely an area with more to learn.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you were in a wind eddy. A low air pressure area on the leeward side of a ridge or other structure. Wind will continuously shift as it tries to equalize air pressure. Not a bad place to be as far as deer movement is concerned but it's a difficult place to be in regards to odor busts. If you can find a seam in an eddy you can get away with murder. But an eddy seam can change as the thermals adjust over the course of the day. It's great when you can find a seam or bend in deer movement that allow you to extend the time frame that thermal seams are working to your favor...much easier said than done. But just being aware why they exist is the 1st step in developing a plan.
 
Bigterp said:
That wasn’t my take away, it was just good solid woodsmanship & wind nerd info.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I had to hit the 15 seconds back button alot. My attention kept getting lost thinking about past setups when they would mention a particular setup. Parallel/ nose to winds and bends in their path was eye opening.
 
I often won't go to a stand until the last minute. As soon as the sun creates a shadow, the wind notoriously switches. Happens almost every time the sun creeps down. Yet guys try to get to their stands 3 hours early.

I'll give it a listen.
 
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