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Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

I'm not sure I buy into that concept of a spinner insert helping penetration....but, never studied on it long because on the 12 factors of arrow lethality, structure integrity is #1....introducing a point of failure into the equation doesn't make any sense to me. But that's just me and I'm pretty dumb sometimes
 
I believe Troy Fowler and The Rocket Man discussed spinning inserts on a video with THP. The Rocket Man basically explained it as a way to let your broadhead not spin, he was testing them with ridiculously large broadheads, like 2"+ cutting diameter solids, and wind planing was non-existent due to the broadhead not being able to impart force on the shaft. The only thing I think I would use them for is a dedicated turkey rig with large cutting diameter heads

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I'm not sure I buy into that concept of a spinner insert helping penetration....but, never studied on it long because on the 12 factors of arrow lethality, structure integrity is #1....introducing a point of failure into the equation doesn't make any sense to me. But that's just me and I'm pretty dumb sometimes
Good point. I was worried about structural integrity until I ordered a set of them. After getting them I realized the 125 gr are very sturdy and the primary failure point would be at the base of the insert so I added a footer to my arrows.
One point on increasing penetration- air drag across the fletching of your arrow is what spins up the arrow and stabilizes it. If it doesn’t have to spin up the broadhead weight then less energy is lost during flight resulting in more energy / force going down range. Another way to view it is that the arrow speed will not drop as much during flight resulting in more kinetic energy.
 
I believe Troy Fowler and The Rocket Man discussed spinning inserts on a video with THP. The Rocket Man basically explained it as a way to let your broadhead not spin, he was testing them with ridiculously large broadheads, like 2"+ cutting diameter solids, and wind planing was non-existent due to the broadhead not being able to impart force on the shaft. The only thing I think I would use them for is a dedicated turkey rig with large cutting diameter heads

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That discussion is what got me to start investigating them and test them out this year.
 
So here’s a question, I got my test kit. I shot most of the combinations, made some adjustments to my bow after some diagonal tears about 2 1/2”-3” long. Raised my rest up, started shooting the 250 spine with the 200 grain point and started getting bullet holes through newspaper. I was torquing my hand ever so slightly causing some horizontal right tears. Once I got that figured out my arrow holes were getting smaller even on the other spines and point weights. So far the clear cut winner was the 250 spine 200 grain point weight. I will do more testing but I didn’t realize how out of whack my bow was before. Now…my question is after all that, I haven’t had a new string on my bow in probably 3 years. Do I bite the bullet and just get it tuned and new string now or should I just keep what I got. I haven’t ordered any arrows and just sort of tinkering now. Thoughts?
 
So here’s a question, I got my test kit. I shot most of the combinations, made some adjustments to my bow after some diagonal tears about 2 1/2”-3” long. Raised my rest up, started shooting the 250 spine with the 200 grain point and started getting bullet holes through newspaper. I was torquing my hand ever so slightly causing some horizontal right tears. Once I got that figured out my arrow holes were getting smaller even on the other spines and point weights. So far the clear cut winner was the 250 spine 200 grain point weight. I will do more testing but I didn’t realize how out of whack my bow was before. Now…my question is after all that, I haven’t had a new string on my bow in probably 3 years. Do I bite the bullet and just get it tuned and new string now or should I just keep what I got. I haven’t ordered any arrows and just sort of tinkering now. Thoughts?

I'd suggest you get your bow re-strung and re-tuned, shoot your new string in, and then start over. An extra step, yeah, but you'll be confident in your bow while sorting out your handloads.
 
I'd suggest you get your bow re-strung and re-tuned, shoot your new string in, and then start over. An extra step, yeah, but you'll be confident in your bow while sorting out your handloads.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too. How many shots to get the new string good to go.
 
So here’s a question, I got my test kit. I shot most of the combinations, made some adjustments to my bow after some diagonal tears about 2 1/2”-3” long. Raised my rest up, started shooting the 250 spine with the 200 grain point and started getting bullet holes through newspaper. I was torquing my hand ever so slightly causing some horizontal right tears. Once I got that figured out my arrow holes were getting smaller even on the other spines and point weights. So far the clear cut winner was the 250 spine 200 grain point weight. I will do more testing but I didn’t realize how out of whack my bow was before. Now…my question is after all that, I haven’t had a new string on my bow in probably 3 years. Do I bite the bullet and just get it tuned and new string now or should I just keep what I got. I haven’t ordered any arrows and just sort of tinkering now. Thoughts?

Don’t have an answer for your question. My advice is don’t replace a string until it looks like it needs to be replaced.

On your arrow quest:

What’s your draw weight/length?

Arrow length?
 
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too. How many shots to get the new string good to go.
Ask your bow tech, mine said it was unnecessary, but he would check the alignment marks after 50 or so shots if I wanted. I've heard others say 200 shots. I guess it depends on the string material? I verified my tune after 3 or 4 practice sessions, saw no change, and went into my handload process.
 
Don’t have an answer for your question. My advice is don’t replace a string until it looks like it needs to be replaced.

On your arrow quest:

What’s your draw weight/length?

Arrow length?
Draw length is 28 5/8 and my draw weight is 67ish pounds. Gonna go with Apollos from Serius.
 
Draw length is 28 5/8 and my draw weight is 67ish pounds. Gonna go with Apollos from Serius.
Be sure to check out the Gemini. I moved from the Apollo to Gemini this year. I switched to save a little weight. I didn't love the trajectory at 630 TAW.

Also GrizzyStik has an interesting set of tappered arrows. Im going to buy one of their test kits after the season.
 
I have been shooting heavy arrows the last 15 years or so (around 500gr with a 29-60 bow), and really heavy arrows (around 600gr) the last 3 seasons. I almost always got a pass thru, even through heavy bones, and felt a big reason was the heavy arrows I was shooting.

Then I jacked my shoulder up two weeks before my first hunt of the season this year and decided I was gonna pick up a crossbow to save my season. I basically had no time to tinker, bought off the shelf bolts and used the same fixed blade broadheads I've been using the last few years with my compound. Total bolt weight was about 425gr. Speed was around 400fps at the bow. I never measured FOC, but am guessing it was actually pretty high considering the short length of the bolt, even with a normal broadhead weight of 125gr.

Got it sighted in, made sure my broadheads were flying with my field points, guesstimated my effective range based on the amount of penetration I was getting into my target and geoup sizes at various ranges and decided I should be good out to 80yds. I found myself in WY on a pronghorn hunt a week later and ended up getting a passthru on a buck at 73yds, bolt was stuck 3 or 4 " in hard plains dirt behind where the buck was standing.

I won't get that kind of penetration on a whitetail, I thought. But, fast forward to early November and I shot a 4.5 year old buck at 30yds, quartering to. The bolt blew threw the Humerus, the chest cavity and the stomach before exiting just in front of the opposite hindquarter. The bolt was laying on top of the ground behind where the deer was standing.

My sample size is small, but it's forcing me to go back and rethink my perspective on heavy arrows and penetration. I'd really like to see the Ashby studies redone with modern equipment to reevaluate what's recommended.
 
I have been shooting heavy arrows the last 15 years or so (around 500gr with a 29-60 bow), and really heavy arrows (around 600gr) the last 3 seasons. I almost always got a pass thru, even through heavy bones, and felt a big reason was the heavy arrows I was shooting.

Then I jacked my shoulder up two weeks before my first hunt of the season this year and decided I was gonna pick up a crossbow to save my season. I basically had no time to tinker, bought off the shelf bolts and used the same fixed blade broadheads I've been using the last few years with my compound. Total bolt weight was about 425gr. Speed was around 400fps at the bow. I never measured FOC, but am guessing it was actually pretty high considering the short length of the bolt, even with a normal broadhead weight of 125gr.

Got it sighted in, made sure my broadheads were flying with my field points, guesstimated my effective range based on the amount of penetration I was getting into my target and geoup sizes at various ranges and decided I should be good out to 80yds. I found myself in WY on a pronghorn hunt a week later and ended up getting a passthru on a buck at 73yds, bolt was stuck 3 or 4 " in hard plains dirt behind where the buck was standing.

I won't get that kind of penetration on a whitetail, I thought. But, fast forward to early November and I shot a 4.5 year old buck at 30yds, quartering to. The bolt blew threw the Humerus, the chest cavity and the stomach before exiting just in front of the opposite hindquarter. The bolt was laying on top of the ground behind where the deer was standing.

My sample size is small, but it's forcing me to go back and rethink my perspective on heavy arrows and penetration. I'd really like to see the Ashby studies redone with modern equipment to reevaluate what's recommended.
No reason to re-think it. Momentum is mass times velocity. If you significantly increase the speed say from 170-180 fps with a stick or 265-280 fps with compound to 400+ with a crossbow, the TAW can come down some or maybe even a good bit and still maintain excellent terminal performance. The only other real consideration at that point is efficiency and structural integrity of the head as it relates to the critter being hunted.
 
I believe Troy Fowler and The Rocket Man discussed spinning inserts on a video with THP. The Rocket Man basically explained it as a way to let your broadhead not spin, he was testing them with ridiculously large broadheads, like 2"+ cutting diameter solids, and wind planing was non-existent due to the broadhead not being able to impart force on the shaft. The only thing I think I would use them for is a dedicated turkey rig with large cutting diameter heads

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Hadn't thought about turkey heads. I'm gonna try this
 
I have been shooting heavy arrows the last 15 years or so (around 500gr with a 29-60 bow), and really heavy arrows (around 600gr) the last 3 seasons. I almost always got a pass thru, even through heavy bones, and felt a big reason was the heavy arrows I was shooting.

Then I jacked my shoulder up two weeks before my first hunt of the season this year and decided I was gonna pick up a crossbow to save my season. I basically had no time to tinker, bought off the shelf bolts and used the same fixed blade broadheads I've been using the last few years with my compound. Total bolt weight was about 425gr. Speed was around 400fps at the bow. I never measured FOC, but am guessing it was actually pretty high considering the short length of the bolt, even with a normal broadhead weight of 125gr.

Got it sighted in, made sure my broadheads were flying with my field points, guesstimated my effective range based on the amount of penetration I was getting into my target and geoup sizes at various ranges and decided I should be good out to 80yds. I found myself in WY on a pronghorn hunt a week later and ended up getting a passthru on a buck at 73yds, bolt was stuck 3 or 4 " in hard plains dirt behind where the buck was standing.

I won't get that kind of penetration on a whitetail, I thought. But, fast forward to early November and I shot a 4.5 year old buck at 30yds, quartering to. The bolt blew threw the Humerus, the chest cavity and the stomach before exiting just in front of the opposite hindquarter. The bolt was laying on top of the ground behind where the deer was standing.

My sample size is small, but it's forcing me to go back and rethink my perspective on heavy arrows and penetration. I'd really like to see the Ashby studies redone with modern equipment to reevaluate what's recommended.
Before switching I shot(same bow same poundage) a 400 spine arrow that was like 27”, the insert was almost sitting on my arrow rest. 100 grain NAP spitfires, pass through with every deer I killed, probably had 10% FOC. I shoot an old Mathew’s SQ2 so it’s not the fastest bow in the world but it has some decent FPS for it’s age.

I lost one this year, total pass through but I think I was too far back. Slight quarter to and I put it on his “vitals”. I thought it might be time to throw a heavy arrow on there and bury it more forward on the deer if that happens again.
 
Yeah the formula is momentum=mv but you’d have to really whip a ping pong ball vs a golf ball for equal penetration. Not that that is even a fair comparison… but yeah I say shoot the heaviest (or heavier) rig that works for you for best results. No reason to get crazy. I’m not hunting Cape buffalo from my saddle this year. I see a lot of folks going overboard. You can get pointers here, but tuning a bow according to charts that are pretty accurate and then maybe upping head weight/shaft size is all doable. When you go extreme, hard to predict, lots of monkeying tuning, just more time consuming and the payoff is probably not huge for normal game animals. But if it is what you enjoy, go for it.
 
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Before switching I shot(same bow same poundage) a 400 spine arrow that was like 27”, the insert was almost sitting on my arrow rest. 100 grain NAP spitfires, pass through with every deer I killed, probably had 10% FOC. I shoot an old Mathew’s SQ2 so it’s not the fastest bow in the world but it has some decent FPS for it’s age.

I lost one this year, total pass through but I think I was too far back. Slight quarter to and I put it on his “vitals”. I thought it might be time to throw a heavy arrow on there and bury it more forward on the deer if that happens again.
Or just don’t take that shot if you’re not comfortable with it, or the angle. Some angles are just bad regardless of set up. On a front shoulder, depending where you hit, thats where an expandable is not recommended, nor a light arrow, and frankly it’s probably a pass situation. From the ground I’ve killed a bunch quartering to, it’s a good shot inside the shoulder. From a tree not so much.
 
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