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8mm or 11mm - Ropeman 1 or Kong Duck

H

Hellir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
237
I am new to saddle hunting. I just got my platform and saddle from TETHRD. I really like their company and their products. I was originally going to go with their only options for ropes and mechanical prusiks, which was their only option at the time. The 11mm lineman’s and tether ropes with the Ropeman 1. Now they have the 8mm with the Kong Duck. I realize this isn’t new to the rope world but it is new to me because I’m not deep in the climbing world. Or even saddle hunting at the moment. Learning though.

Can anyone help me with this debate? Why should I choose one over the other. I am 6’4” 230lb and have big hands. To me, the 11mm ‘feels’ safer because it is thicker. I understand that technically the 8mm rope is rated for more though. When I was first learning about saddle hunting, all the videos were of people using the Ropeman 1 so I got used to that being the way to go. They made it look like it works really smooth. I was able to try the Kong Duck not too long ago and, for me, it seemed difficult to use. Again, I am new and had never used it before. Just didn’t seem as smooth. But then again, I’ve never used the Ropeman 1 before.

I’m really stuck on which options to choose. I need to choose soon though. I hate having options. Lol. Sometimes it paralyzes me. So, what do y’all think? 8mm with Kong or 11mm with Ropeman? Both for Lineman’s and Tether. Thanks for the help.


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I have and use both 8mm sterling oplux and 11mm Sampson predator. The 8mm is less weight and bulk. The “weight weenies” of this ‘tribe’ will recommend the 8mm. Both work fine.

Now to the question you did not ask. Mechanical ascender (not a mechanical prusik ) or friction hitch and tender? I would recommend the latter. It is not difficult to set up a friction hitch, e.g., distel, klemheist, schwabisch, and a hitch tender. The mechanical ascender is being used off-label when used for lineman’s belt or tether. It can, in the case of falls, potentially damage the rope.

You won’t get consensus about either, but I would recommend you try to find people with gear (both options) to try out. Also, do some more research on both options.

The only reason I can see for the reluctance to use a friction hitch and tender is someone not knowing how to set that up and possibly not having the confidence to do so. OR the marketing of saddle products is very very influential.
 
An 11mm rope will be easier to handle and the 8mm rope will be easier to pack (more compact). That was my deciding factor, not weight or weight ratings. I personally use the CT Rollnlock, not the Kong Duck; and yes, I've had both (either one is fine). I've also used the Ropeman 1 on my previous 11mm setup.

As far as safety, and use, that's a question as to what you're willing to "accept" from a risk possibility. I climb recreationally and for tree trimming, and I use both friction hitches and mechanical devices there... I prefer the CT on my saddle gear. One thing to remember about friction hitches, is you do not want to grab them in the event of a fall, as they will slip! Either way, the idea is to not induce the possibility of a dynamic load, as static "swing" would cause more damage (and hurt more). A static "fall" should not damage your rope sheath with any of the mechanical devices.
 
I am also 6'5, 230lbs as of today (I go up or down based on training, and I have weighed as much as 255) and use the smaller diameter rope with zero issues. I also have yet to fall though in any way. As soujourner mentioned, you will get many different answers and opinions to base your decision off of. What I did as a newbie was start with the friction hitch method. It allowed me to get a feel for adjusting my bridge, linemens's belt and tether. From there once you know what right looks like on all your equipment and what you do and do not like about adjusting your equipment, you can decide where you want to add a mechanical style. Maybe you want one on your tether only, or LB only, or both. Do not ever be in a rush to make an adjustment on a rope no matter what and you should never be in any trouble. Trying to go fast is like trying to go buy a sport bike and pretend you know how to drive it on a track. Nobody here cares if it takes you 45 minutes to get up your tree safely or if you do it in 5 minutes because we will never see it. Practice on a tree in your yard with just the platform and saddle and tether. No sticks. Then do one stick and the platform. Then two or all of them. Crawl, walk, run methodology as I was told. It worked well for me and I have had no issues. Now I am up and fully set up ready to shoot in about 15 minutes, same coming down. You are in the right spot to get info.
 
So, the TETHRD tether comes with a prusik knot and what you’re saying is, an option, to add a prusik tender that acts as a Ropeman device? I like that idea for the tether because the pulley hanging from the Ropeman 1 seems precarious. One accidental tug and you are falling.

I saw a video of a guy talking about adding a prusik tender and how it makes it easier to pull up on the prusik knot. I’m definitely interested in safety over convenience. Where do I get a prusik tender? I don’t want to make one. I don’t trust myself with that.

And am I correct in saying that’s what you are saying in my statement above?

I think I’m going to go with the 11mm rope. It just seems visually more safe to me. I really only want to stick with TETHRD and they offer the 8mm or 11mm. Even though the 11 “looks” safer I see the 8mm is actually rated at a higher poundage. Is the weight/size difference really THAT drastic to spend the extra to get the 8?

Thanks again for your help.


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I use 8mm. I use a kong on my linesman while climbing and a tender and Prussic on my tether. Something about hanging and trusting the mechanical device the whole time doesn’t make me fuzzy. Even tho I do use it while climbing for easy adjusting my linesman’s
 
I had the 11mm ropes & ropeman last year, switched to 8mm with schwabisch & tender for this year. Much more compact & save a few bucks going with friction hitch & tender instead of the mechanical ascenders. Works just as well, actually think I like it better.
 
Honestly, if I break it down, for this thread I’m mainly concerned about what mm roping I should get. Just for the moment this is the most pressing issue. I don’t want to get the 11mm and then have FOMO on the 8mm or via versa. I’m just not sure which one I should get. I’m only going through the TETHRD company. So those are my two options. Visually I like the look and size of the two 11mm TETHRD ropes. Conceptually I like how the 8mm is rated for a higher poundage and is less bulky.


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6 in one half dozen in the other. Personally I’d get the 8. But if you have ropemans than the 11 will fit your device. The 8 is to small.
 
I don’t have anything at the moment. Needing to get a rope first and then will choose on mechanical or not.


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MA_PAdeerslayer said:
I use 8mm. I use a kong on my linesman while climbing and a tender and Prussic on my tether. Something about hanging and trusting the mechanical device the whole time doesn’t make me fuzzy. Even tho I do use it while climbing for easy adjusting my linesman’s
Click to expand...
I also tried a Kong on my tether and went back to the Prussic. I found that I never needed to adjust my tether in such a rapid timeline that it warranted an accidental mechanical failure. But I still use the Kong on my LB for sure on whatever tree diameter or position I find myself in. It is faster and easier for me there for sure.
 
And actually just got new 8mm canyon elite rope from someone on here. And in the process learned to “daisy chain” the ropes for even better pack-ability
 
bowhunthard88 said:
An 11mm rope will be easier to handle and the 8mm rope will be easier to pack (more compact). That was my deciding factor, not weight or weight ratings. I personally use the CT Rollnlock, not the Kong Duck; and yes, I've had both (either one is fine). I've also used the Ropeman 1 on my previous 11mm setup.

As far as safety, and use, that's a question as to what you're willing to "accept" from a risk possibility. I climb recreationally and for tree trimming, and I use both friction hitches and mechanical devices there... I prefer the CT on my saddle gear. One thing to remember about friction hitches, is you do not want to grab them in the event of a fall, as they will slip! Either way, the idea is to not induce the possibility of a dynamic load, as static "swing" would cause more damage (and hurt more). A static "fall" should not damage your rope sheath with any of the mechanical devices.
Click to expand...

Ropeman 1 Failure

I don't wanna stir worms, but I do just want to stick this info out there while I have it. This is a link to the oft-referenced article about how a ropeman 1 fails, and a screenshot of the most relevant page I found. http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf Not saying use it or...
saddlehunter.com
Read the first post by @Nutterbuster . The Kong Duck and CT RollNLock are of similar design and would likely have the same results.
 
CZMark said:

Ropeman 1 Failure

I don't wanna stir worms, but I do just want to stick this info out there while I have it. This is a link to the oft-referenced article about how a ropeman 1 fails, and a screenshot of the most relevant page I found. http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf Not saying use it or...
saddlehunter.com
Read the first post by @Nutterbuster . The Kong Duck and CT RollNLock are of similar design and would likely have the same results.
Click to expand...
This is why I went to a Schwabisch on my tether and a Kong on my LB.
 
Hellir said:
Honestly, if I break it down, for this thread I’m mainly concerned about what mm roping I should get. Just for the moment this is the most pressing issue. I don’t want to get the 11mm and then have FOMO on the 8mm or via versa. I’m just not sure which one I should get. I’m only going through the TETHRD company. So those are my two options. Visually I like the look and size of the two 11mm TETHRD ropes. Conceptually I like how the 8mm is rated for a higher poundage and is less bulky.


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Click to expand...
Not sure why you are “only going through the TETHRD company”, but by doing so you are unnecessarily excluding the rope that would seem to meet both of your desires....9mm canyon C-IV. With that rope you get a greater bulk over 8mm that you seem to like, but also still get some measure of a smaller diameter for packability over the 11mm without having to go all the way to 8mm. Also the 9mm is within spec for the Ropeman 1, Kong Duck and MadRock Safeguard. Technically, 8mm is out of spec for the Ropeman 1 and the MadRock Safeguard, although there are folks who use them on 8mm. Those above combined atributes are probably why so many choose Canyon C-IV over most other ropes. Good luck!
 
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As @2Sloe has pointed out above, there lots of options for ropes depending on what you're looking for. Any solid arborist rope will work for our purposes and several have moved to some Canyoning/Rescue ropes as well. Here's some alternate sources to explore:

doublesteps.com

Ropes / Cords – Eastern Woods Outdoors

doublesteps.com doublesteps.com

Arborist Rope || WesSpur Tree Equipment

Arborists and tree workers use ropes like nobody else! Whether you are flying through the canopy on your climbing rope or bringing down trunk sections over a house, you're putting it all on the line. Let WesSpur get you the best rope for your job.
www.wesspur.com www.wesspur.com

Arborist Rope for Tree Climbing | Treestuff

Treestuff has the best selection of the arborist ropes. Whether you need rigging ropes, 16-strand, or winch rope, you can find the tree climbing rope you need.
www.treestuff.com www.treestuff.com

I've purchased rope from all three of these companies and have nothing but good things to say about them. I'm 6', 230 with large hands too and I've used everything from 1/2" to 8mm. Most of my saddle hunting time has been spent on 11mm Samson Predator or Teufelberger Tachyon although last year I primarily used 8mm Oplux as my rappel line.

As others have suggested, I too have moved from the Ropeman 1 for a tether adjust to a friction hitch cord (Distel Hitch for me). Ultimately it adjusts just as easily and I feel a little more safe if for some reason I were to experience a fall that resulted in an impact load (sudden stop at the end of a slack line).

I think I've finally settled on 9mm as a comfortable compromise between grip size and packability. I just received some of the Maxim Canyon "Camo" Elite from Eastern Woods Outdoors yesterday and my initial impression is very favorable.

I realize more options probably doesn't help with your "analysis paralysis" but fortunately the rope you're using is an easy change in your system. I can count at least seven different ropes I played with in the last 6 years without even really thinking about it. What I'm really trying to say is don't sweat it too much, just pick a safe combination.
 
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