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Are 2 blades actually bad for low lbs?

Basically because 2 blades stop spinning once they enter body, they will not penetrate as well as 3 blades and leave inferior blood trail. I'm not experience enough to argue against his points. So is he correct? Should I switch to 3 blades?
2 blade broadheads do not spin.
Single bevel 2 blade broadheads spin, because of the single bevel. :cool:

This is very different than most other advices that I got. I decided to go with 2 blade Magnus stingers because of the good balance between penetrations and blood trail.
Blood trails can not be predicted by the type of broadhead, number of blades, shot placement, bow poundage, etc. :rolleyes:
3 blade broadheads offer poor or less penetration than 2 blades, due to their "wedge" design. This has been proven, many times, by many people.

Take the time to read the Ashby Foundation data results of the thousands of animals that have been shot in Africa with 2 blade broadheads....and dropped within sight of the hunter. By their own admission, they don't care about blood trails, because the animals falls within sight of the hunter.
A video well worth the time to watch and learn from by Dr. Ed Ashby.
 
Ashby results are based on penitrating bone, shoulders.
That is not correct.
Take the Natal study for example where they were trying to quantify hits from all/any angle or location. They were trying to learn exactly what damage a broadhead can do in all scenarios.
It wasn't just about bone hits.
Ashby has also studied and proven that single bevel heads can produce a starburst wound pattern when shot through intestines. They injected dye into intestines which revealed cuts that were several inches away from the primary wound.

When Ashby was a professional guide in Africa, he became very aware that the recovery rate was directly correlated to having an exit wound. TWO holes equals a higher rate of recovery than one hole.
With that being established, when broadhead integrity is maintained, 2 blades penetrate with less force than 3 blades. It's basic physics.
 
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Single bevel 2 blade heads do indeed spin after impact. When I pull mine out of the broadhead target if I don't spin them back through they pull out huge chunks of foam. The target wouldn't last very long at all.
Agreed, still chews my target right up but it's definitely a spiral path. Undoubtedly.

Where do the s-shaped two blade wound pictures come from if they aren't still rotating while penetrating?
 
When Ashby was a professional guide in Africa, he became very aware that the recovery rate was directly correlated to having an exit wound. TWO holes equals a higher rate of recovery than one hole.
With that being established, when broadhead integrity is maintained, 2 blades penetrate with less force than 3 blades. It's basic physics.
This is very accurate! :cool:
Dr. Ed Ashby produced 118 data points, per shot. NOBODY else has produced that much data, even in the firearms groups.
I would rather listen, read and learn from his years of experience, because there's no way I'll ever come close to killing that many animals to have that much experience. :)

Here's some information from the United Blood Trackers and one of their members, Shane Simpson, which produces The Callie Chronicles:
* Mechanical broadheads had a pass-thru rate of 41%, while fixed broadheads had a pass-through rate of 74%.
* Recovery rates for all pass-thru shots were 59%.
* Recovery rates for all non pass-thru shots were 21%.
 
Does anyone make a 2 blade single bevel broadhead with a 5/16" or smaller ferrule for these small diameter carbon arrows?
 
Does anyone make a 2 blade single bevel broadhead with a 5/16" or smaller ferrule for these small diameter carbon arrows?
Good question. I'm not aware of any specifically made for smaller diameter shafts but I would think that as long as you had good, square contact to the arrow adapter and base of the broadhead it should be fine to use a regular size. The smaller shaft behind the broadhead should aid penetration as long as structural integrity remains.
 
Does anyone make a 2 blade single bevel broadhead with a 5/16" or smaller ferrule for these small diameter carbon arrows?
A smaller shaft diameter is an advantage for penetration. It's also #5, of the "12 Arrow Penetration Factors", from the Ashby Reports.
So, to answer your question, "No", it's not necessary. The larger ferrule diameter of the broadhead, allows for easier penetration of the arrow shaft. This especially true of bone splitting performance.
Ashby Foundation Reports: https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-arrow-penetration-factors

Notice how the levering action of the single bevel has made room for the shaft to pass thru:
z single bevel.jpg
 
There's a lot of good discussion/info/advice on this thread - I applaud everyone on stating their opinions/experiences without bashing someone else...

I would like to add that while I think Ashby presents a lot of good information, if you are hunting whitetail deer, you don't need an arrow that will take down a Cape buffalo. If I was hunting larger African animals or North American game such as Elk or Moose, then penetration would be more of a consideration to me than on whitetail deer sized game and I might gravitate to a narrower 2 blade with a 3:1 type ratio for those larger animals....

While I agree a passthru is important to good blood trails, I've found the narrower 3 blade heads penetrate comparably to two blade heads on deer sized game and I usually have two holes in the deer I shoot - but maybe the arrow isn't buried 6 inches in the dirt on the other side....

It blows my mind how many compound shooters pulling 70 lbs have gravitated to 2 blade heads due to penetration concerns....In todays modern compounds pulling 70 lbs penetration would not be a consideration for my choice of broadhead design except I would stay away from a mechanical more than 2" wide.....

I think broadhead design should be geared toward the game we hunt....For smaller big game such as whitetail deer maximum damage while achieving two holes in the animal is a good strategy. If hunting larger game maybe a different broadhead that is based on maximum penetration is smart...
 
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There's a lot of good discussion/info/advice on this thread - I applaud everyone on stating their opinions/experiences without bashing someone else...

I would like to add that while I think Ashby presents a lot of good information, if you are hunting whitetail deer, you don't need an arrow that will take down a Cape buffalo. If I was hunting larger African animals or North American game such as Elk or Moose, then penetration would be more of a consideration to me than on whitetail deer sized game and I might gravitate to a narrower 2 blade with a 3:1 type ratio for those larger animals....

While I agree a passthru is important to good blood trails, I've found the narrower 3 blade heads penetrate comparably to two blade heads on deer sized game and I usually have two holes in the deer I shoot - but maybe the arrow isn't buried 6 inches in the dirt on the other side....

It blows my mind how many compound shooters pulling 70 lbs have gravitated to 2 blade heads due to penetration concerns....In todays modern compounds pulling 70 lbs penetration would not be a consideration for my choice of broadhead design except I would stay away from a mechanical more than 2" wide.....

I think broadhead design should be geared toward the game we hunt....For smaller big game such as whitetail deer maximum damage while achieving two holes in the animal is a good strategy. If hunting larger game maybe a different broadhead that is based on maximum penetration is smart...
Ashby has compared the rib of an Asian water buffalo to that of a ball joint in a whitetail. The whitetail joint is actually harder to penetrate that the buffalo rib.
 
There's a lot of good discussion/info/advice on this thread - I applaud everyone on stating their opinions/experiences without bashing someone else...

I would like to add that while I think Ashby presents a lot of good information, if you are hunting whitetail deer, you don't need an arrow that will take down a Cape buffalo. If I was hunting larger African animals or North American game such as Elk or Moose, then penetration would be more of a consideration to me than on whitetail deer sized game and I might gravitate to a narrower 2 blade with a 3:1 type ratio for those larger animals....

While I agree a passthru is important to good blood trails, I've found the narrower 3 blade heads penetrate comparably to two blade heads on deer sized game and I usually have two holes in the deer I shoot - but maybe the arrow isn't buried 6 inches in the dirt on the other side....

It blows my mind how many compound shooters pulling 70 lbs have gravitated to 2 blade heads due to penetration concerns....In todays modern compounds pulling 70 lbs penetration would not be a consideration for my choice of broadhead design except I would stay away from a mechanical more than 2" wide.....

I think broadhead design should be geared toward the game we hunt....For smaller big game such as whitetail deer maximum damage while achieving two holes in the animal is a good strategy. If hunting larger game maybe a different broadhead that is based on maximum penetration is smart...

It shouldn’t blow your mind.

Without too much boring detail, I’ve killed a dozen or so deer with small two blade heads over the last five years. 500ish grain arrow for most of them. I’ve had exactly 2 deer “run” at shot. One saw me prior to shot and was on alert, and died within 75 yards with crazy blood trail. The other died within 200 yards and was gut shot and was recovered a few days later due to rain storms, lack of dog, and familiarity with property(not excuses just circumstances). The rest died within earshot or eyesight, most continued the activity engaged in before being shot.

I’ve shot a half dozen or so with exodus heads. Same results mostly.

It also allows me to shoot same bow/poundage/arrow build/tune/etc. for elk and such.


Broadhead cutting width does not correlate strongly with blood trail quality. No one has tested this rigorously. But there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the idea. I’m speaking specifically to the range of heads actually used 7/8”-2”. Of course if you could get a 6” blade through a deer it would stand out. This would be an easy data gather to set up. It would require honesty and participation by a lot of people though.

Hitting a deer in large diameter high pressure plumbing correlates strongly with blood trail quality. And how fast deer die. Where’s that plumbing? Neck to point of elbow horizontally speaking. You hit between the front of shoulder and point of elbow, and make two holes, you’re getting a good blood trail, and it likely means the deer is tipping over in sight.

behind that, dorsal aorta and femoral artery. Luck and only luck determines whether you hit those.


The only deer I’ve lost to a broadhead issue in 10+ years? Buck of a lifetime last year with a rage in a shoulder. 500gr arrow going 280fps. My guess is an exodus gives me 60/40 chance of getting through. Any of the small two blades I shoot 100% that deer is dead.

I’m not saying 3 blades are bad options at all. I use them too.

I’m saying it shouldn’t blow your mind that small 2 blade heads are really effective, and aren’t settled on, but actively chosen by thoughtful smart people.
 
It shouldn’t blow your mind.

Without too much boring detail, I’ve killed a dozen or so deer with small two blade heads over the last five years. 500ish grain arrow for most of them. I’ve had exactly 2 deer “run” at shot. One saw me prior to shot and was on alert, and died within 75 yards with crazy blood trail. The other died within 200 yards and was gut shot and was recovered a few days later due to rain storms, lack of dog, and familiarity with property(not excuses just circumstances). The rest died within earshot or eyesight, most continued the activity engaged in before being shot.

I’ve shot a half dozen or so with exodus heads. Same results mostly.

It also allows me to shoot same bow/poundage/arrow build/tune/etc. for elk and such.


Broadhead cutting width does not correlate strongly with blood trail quality. No one has tested this rigorously. But there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the idea. I’m speaking specifically to the range of heads actually used 7/8”-2”. Of course if you could get a 6” blade through a deer it would stand out. This would be an easy data gather to set up. It would require honesty and participation by a lot of people though.

Hitting a deer in large diameter high pressure plumbing correlates strongly with blood trail quality. And how fast deer die. Where’s that plumbing? Neck to point of elbow horizontally speaking. You hit between the front of shoulder and point of elbow, and make two holes, you’re getting a good blood trail, and it likely means the deer is tipping over in sight.

behind that, dorsal aorta and femoral artery. Luck and only luck determines whether you hit those.


The only deer I’ve lost to a broadhead issue in 10+ years? Buck of a lifetime last year with a rage in a shoulder. 500gr arrow going 280fps. My guess is an exodus gives me 60/40 chance of getting through. Any of the small two blades I shoot 100% that deer is dead.

I’m not saying 3 blades are bad options at all. I use them too.

I’m saying it shouldn’t blow your mind that small 2 blade heads are really effective, and aren’t settled on, but actively chosen by thoughtful smart people.
Well it does blow my mind based on my experiences - but to each his own. The main thing is to hunt with what you are confident with and that's what I do......
 
There's a lot of good discussion/info/advice on this thread - I applaud everyone on stating their opinions/experiences without bashing someone else...

It blows my mind how many compound shooters pulling 70 lbs have gravitated to 2 blade heads due to penetration concerns....In todays modern compounds pulling 70 lbs penetration would not be a consideration for my choice of broadhead design except I would stay away from a mechanical more than 2" wide.....
@Longbowwally ,
I agree and am impressed with the amount of "non-bashing" within this post. Which is a good thing! :cool:

My mind is somewhat "blown" by guys still pulling 70+ lbs., in their quest for improved penetration. While there are women with 24" draw lengths, shooting 42# with a 720 grain arrow is blowing thru the shoulders of an Eland. :) If a person is capable of pulling that amount of draw weight, is shooting a heavy arrow, but is trying to gain some speed to increase to flatten the trajectory....that's understandable. Here in Ohio, the need to shoot further yardages isn't as popular as it is out in the western states.

Personally, I've watched guys going through rotor cuff surgeries, when they could've dropped their bow poundage, years earlier and saved themselves the pain and suffering. :rolleyes: I'm drawing 57# with a 520 TAW and 20.5% FOC. I've been shooting under 60# for many years and am still killing deer. I just retired and hope to keep the ability to draw a bow for many years to come.
 
BowhunterXC - I'm one of those who hunted with way to heavy bows in the early days and am paying for it now with a shoulder surgery a few years ago and shoulder pain if I shoot to many arrows even now....I shot compounds at 80 lbs for several years and 70 lbs for many other years - that along with literally hundreds of thousands of arrows shot with my trad bows over the years has caused me problems to where I don't hunt with the trad as much as I have in the past - which I am not happy about - and am using a compound more these days because they don't bother my shoulders as much...
 
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