I'm a small guy, but have always shot between 60-70# with all my bows. Now I'm 46 and starting to back off because of listening to guys like you. Loving my low/mid 50's bow these days.
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Are 2 blades actually bad for low lbs?
- Thread starter HuumanCreed
- Start date
I'm a small guy, but have always shot between 60-70# with all my bows. Now I'm 46 and starting to back off because of listening to guys like you. Loving my low/mid 50's bow these days.
You are doing it all wrong. You are going to completely miss out on being able to say "they warned me about shooting them heavy bows" while you rehab.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2020
- Messages
- 786
Another video to add to points already made. @Razorbak66 sent this to me when we were texting about a back up bow I have 40# ilf limbs on.
Iron_llama
Well-Known Member
Without watching all of your video, I'll offer one of Ron Kulas' (the StaySharp broadhead sharpening guide guy):
My takeaway:
As per Dr. Ashby, an arrow is always flying between launch and when forward motion stops; it may fly through the air, an animal, or a few inches of dirt or tree trunk, but it is flying. As such, when it is flying through the air, its rotation is controlled by the fletching. Once it starts flying through meat and bone, its rotation will be controlled by the broadhead. While foam is a poor substitute for meat, it does serve to illustrate how broadheads react when flying through something more solid than air. This video shows that broadhead rotation through meat is controlled by the bevel, not the fletching. So, neither a double-bevel broadhead, 3-blade, or 4-blade will rotate any appreciable distance through meat. If rotation through meat is important to you, you will need a single-bevel broadhead.
To answer your question:
As per Dr. Ashby, a 3:1 ratio, double-blade broadhead will penetrate deeper in game than any other design. A single-bevel, double-blade broadhead will achieve superior penetration through bone than any other design. I'm not aware of any information suggesting a link between depth of penetration, and whether or not a broadhead rotates through meat; the advantage to rotation is twofold: splitting rather than puncturing bone, and more surface area cut in soft tissue. I would expect that two equally sharp, otherwise identical broadheads, 1 double-bevel and 1 single-bevel, shot through soft tissue, would penetrate about equally, regardless of rotation.
As I apply my understanding of Dr. Ashby's research, a larger cutting diameter - be it from a 3-blade or mechanical or extra-wide two-blade - will be achieved at the expense of penetration. Now, if 1 head is good for 36" of penetration and another is good for 48", but both are shot at a broadside doe 18" across... the benefit is moot because both passed through. The penetration advantage of the second broadhead would only be realized if the doe were to duck the string or spin away from an 18" broadside aspect to a hard quartering one.
So, what broadhead should you shoot? You buy what you want with your money. I shot 3-blade Montecs for years and am switching to single-bevel Maasais and Grizzlies on my wheelie bow for adult arrows, and Magnus Stingers on my backup Twizzlers. Wenzel Woodsman 3-blades are very popular and are similar to the VPAs, the Cutthroats and Tuffheads also look excellent.
If you have Stingers that fly well on your arrows, my advice is, MN season opens in like a week; shoot what you have this year and spend the winter and next summer building up another setup if you decide you're not satisfied with what you have.
My takeaway:
As per Dr. Ashby, an arrow is always flying between launch and when forward motion stops; it may fly through the air, an animal, or a few inches of dirt or tree trunk, but it is flying. As such, when it is flying through the air, its rotation is controlled by the fletching. Once it starts flying through meat and bone, its rotation will be controlled by the broadhead. While foam is a poor substitute for meat, it does serve to illustrate how broadheads react when flying through something more solid than air. This video shows that broadhead rotation through meat is controlled by the bevel, not the fletching. So, neither a double-bevel broadhead, 3-blade, or 4-blade will rotate any appreciable distance through meat. If rotation through meat is important to you, you will need a single-bevel broadhead.
To answer your question:
As per Dr. Ashby, a 3:1 ratio, double-blade broadhead will penetrate deeper in game than any other design. A single-bevel, double-blade broadhead will achieve superior penetration through bone than any other design. I'm not aware of any information suggesting a link between depth of penetration, and whether or not a broadhead rotates through meat; the advantage to rotation is twofold: splitting rather than puncturing bone, and more surface area cut in soft tissue. I would expect that two equally sharp, otherwise identical broadheads, 1 double-bevel and 1 single-bevel, shot through soft tissue, would penetrate about equally, regardless of rotation.
As I apply my understanding of Dr. Ashby's research, a larger cutting diameter - be it from a 3-blade or mechanical or extra-wide two-blade - will be achieved at the expense of penetration. Now, if 1 head is good for 36" of penetration and another is good for 48", but both are shot at a broadside doe 18" across... the benefit is moot because both passed through. The penetration advantage of the second broadhead would only be realized if the doe were to duck the string or spin away from an 18" broadside aspect to a hard quartering one.
So, what broadhead should you shoot? You buy what you want with your money. I shot 3-blade Montecs for years and am switching to single-bevel Maasais and Grizzlies on my wheelie bow for adult arrows, and Magnus Stingers on my backup Twizzlers. Wenzel Woodsman 3-blades are very popular and are similar to the VPAs, the Cutthroats and Tuffheads also look excellent.
If you have Stingers that fly well on your arrows, my advice is, MN season opens in like a week; shoot what you have this year and spend the winter and next summer building up another setup if you decide you're not satisfied with what you have.
Iron_llama
Well-Known Member
I like the Ethics Archery components. If you want to go overboard, you can use a glue-on broadhead adapter for .166 ID arrows. If you want to stay conventional, they have halfouts and outserts that will fit .166 ID arrows.
Bntarrw
New Member
BenG
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2017
- Messages
- 412
Why does anyone care if the broadhead is spinning. Aside from what Ashby found to be able to split bone more easily, is there any other purpose. I would actually think you’d lose a tiny tiny bit of penetration by spinning. Not that I think any of this matters but since we’re splitting hairs. Also the meat eater podcast with Bill Vanderheyden was a good listen. I find this stuff pretty interesting but I admittedly still shoot muzzy 4-blades and never had an issue with them in over 20 years (other than 1 or 2 misses of my own fault). I did have an issue when I switched to mechanicals for one year because the giant holes and massive blood trails was all the rage.
Spinning through the cut makes a much bigger hole allowing more blood to hit the ground. Shooting deer is good, finding them easily is really nice.
Bntarrw
New Member
I have been bow hunting for 40 years. What I have came to the conclusion unless you are hunting dangerous game it really doesn’t matter what broadhead you shoot. (My humble opinion ) All of us hunters owe it to the animal to take ethical shots to make a well placed arrow in the vitals to minimizing any suffering we inflict.. Ben I have shot Muzzy 3-blades for years with great success and I have tried different mechanical‘s and I have had better success with the Swacker’s than others.
Bntarrw
New Member
Iron Llama
I used a Victory VAP 300 with the Ethic Archer 180gr SS components on my Africa trip with a single bevel 2 blade BH with AMAZING penetration!!! 670 gr. Total arrow weight
I used a Victory VAP 300 with the Ethic Archer 180gr SS components on my Africa trip with a single bevel 2 blade BH with AMAZING penetration!!! 670 gr. Total arrow weight
I'd like to point out that the OP asked this question in the Trad category of the forum. Therefore when he's asking about low poundage bows we can assume it's a longbow or recurve with less energy imparted to the arrow per pound of draw than a compound. That doesn't make anyone's experience with 2 blades, single bevel or not, irrelevant. It's just not an apple's to apples comparison.
I'm shooting a 56" carbon supercurve this year. With a 650 grain arrow I can't break 160 fps, 46# at 28 inches. Single bevel 2 blades are what I'll terminate my arrows with this year because experience has shown me better blood trails with them.
I've been at it awhile myself. This season will be number 49 for me.
I'm shooting a 56" carbon supercurve this year. With a 650 grain arrow I can't break 160 fps, 46# at 28 inches. Single bevel 2 blades are what I'll terminate my arrows with this year because experience has shown me better blood trails with them.
I've been at it awhile myself. This season will be number 49 for me.
Yes sir. Just in my opinion, the technical advantage of compound bow can overcome a lot of the debates when it come to arrow designs. 2/3/4 blades are all deadly from even a 50lbs compound bow.
But diving into the trad bow. I feel like it is part of my responsibility to suck as much accuracy and attention to details as I can from the community. Because I need to be confident in my setup and try my utmost to tune my gear. Am I overthinking it sometimes? I'm sure I am, but I rather be learning about best BHs or best fletching setup then watching TV. I'm planning to hunt with a 41lbs longbow, and knowing that I put my all into my setup give me a sense of being respectful to the deer. That I did not take for granted that I am using the most effective tool to take his/her life while minimalizing their suffering.
Ok, honest moment here. I dislike it when people tell me ' Oh people had been killing animals with stone BHs for thousands of years'. Well....I have read some of the materials on primitive archery and I don't see any mention of success rates. All I read are 'effective'. Plus, I'm not a hunter by trade. I don't have time to go gather proper stones to shape into BH, then spend hours practicing because my family depend on me bringing home meat (because they're screwed then). I live in a modern time where I can take advantage of the fact that I can ask strangers for their advices and experience online. And you know what I do, I listen to them, try what they suggest, then use what I think works best for me.
I like topic like this because people come with a lot of different view points and their reasoning for what they use and why it works for them. So keep them coming folks. I want to thank you all for your time to reply and I benefit from just reading the points that been made.
Bntarrw
New Member
I am trying to ween myself off my training wheel in my compound and started shooting my dads favorite recurve ( god bless his soul) its a 1969 Herters Perfection MAG 58” 60# @ 28. Trying build confidence with it.. once I get my self confidence up my arrows will be tipped with VanDieman 125 gr. 575 gr total weight.
I am pretty sure a Herters perfection Mag is the bow I shot my first archery deer with almost 30 yrs ago. It was a bow my dad borrowed off of a coworker so I only had it a short time.
Bntarrw
New Member
I tried to load a pic of it and the pic is too large to load
Try taking a screenshot and posting that.
Ashby does talk about 2 different mechanical advantages.
The one advantage is the low incline of 3:1 ratio heads as measured along the LENGTH of the head.
But he also talks about the low incline across the bevel itself. That low bevel incline allows the head to cut with less applied force. Bevel angles are measured from the cutting edge so a 25 degree single bevel is truly 25 degrees. A 25 degree bevel on a double bevel head actually has a less acute angle which means it needs more applied force to cut.
So when single is compared to double, the single will cut with less force.
Bntarrw
New Member
Bntarrw
New Member
Sipsey
Well-Known Member
I wish ole Fred Bear was still alive. His two-blade design with bleeders took a lot of game before modern equipment came along.