Arrow tuning questions

[krumfola]

Looking to get into trad bow this spring with hopes of hunting with it next fall. Decided on a Samick Sage because of cost and ability to upgrade. Planning to start with ~35lb limbs. I understand that there will be a fair amount of arrow tuning to get it set up and shooting straight and accurately.

I’ve researched this for weeks but as I’m completely new to bow hunting, I still have a couple questions. When upgrading to higher poundage limbs in a couple of months, will I have to start from scratch with arrow tuning? Are wood/carbon/aluminum arrows more forgiving for new shooters? Is 35lb too heavy/light for a new shooter? I’m 37 (man) and in good shape but have read lots about starting at a low poundage to encourage good form.

Thanks

 

[Heydeerman]

You are correct about starting with lower weight and getting your form figured out. I was in my 30’s when I took up trad and I was told the same thing but didn’t listen because I could pull a heavier bow it was about 5 years later when I could not figure out why my shooting was so inconsistent that I finally listened and dropped down and started to really focus on form and developing a good shot.

Carbon arrows “can” be more forgiving. Sometimes it might be as simple as adjusting point weight to get them to fly out of multiple bow weights. Sometimes not so much.

I would recommend getting a test kit from 3Rivers Archery and experiment. They are very helpful and a phone call or email could get you headed in the right direction. Internet (forum) advise can be helpful but very confusing at times.

 

[Barking Mad]

I second the sentiment on starting with a low draw weight. There are a lot of challenges when starting out with a stickbow, draw weight should not be one of them. You could go even lower, 30# would not be out of line.

Wooden arrows are the most economical, but not by much when you start really picking individual shafts to make a matching set.
Aluminium and carbon are consistent right out of the box. Carbon probably gets the nod for durability (they do not bend) but aluminium is a solid choice and usually cost less than the carbon counterpart.

If you have access to hands- on guidance I highly recommend it. Barring that, there are a plethora of good videos in the net on the subject of shooting and tuning your bow.

Here's one:

A chart : https://stalkerstickbows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Bareshaft-tuning.pdf

Jimmy Blackmon is one of the greats in Youtube. But there are countless of others.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR0FGX9w9pPJKIAo5epF2PaqNxe4ZXTBR

Also, please bear in mind that one can only tune as well as one can shoot, so don't sweat with really fine tuning the setup when starting out. A ballpark tune will suffice.

And most of all, keep an open mind and have fun.

 

[michigandrake]

Great choice of bow and limb weight. Yes, if you upgrade limbs and everything else remains equal you will need to reshaft .... most likely. I would suggest going the test kit route. Pickup a carbon shaft test kit (Goldtip is my preference) and a field point test kit. They will give you the ability to bare shaft a multitude of combinations. When bare shafting you can work your form. Keep it close range to get a good feel for the equipment and your release. Eventually, you will figure out what shoots best. Buy a few shaft/tip combos based on that intel and shoot a bunch. Then when you upgrade limbs you have the tools available to figure out your new shaft and tip weight. Rinse and repeat for future setups.

 

[kbetts]

Err on the side of a stiffer shaft and don’t trim it too short. Leave it long and maybe you could trim it later when you move up in poundage. Use your field point kit to adjust spine.

Ill be the oddball here.....I wouldn’t start with a bow not legal to hunt with. If the goal is to hunt, get what you need to have and work up to it. But there is a difference from just wanting to be able to “shoot” and ”working” on trad bow strength. You have to shoot a lot to stay consistent.

 

[Heydeerman]

Err on the side of a stiffer shaft and don’t trim it too short. Leave it long and maybe you could trim it later when you move up in poundage. Use your field point kit to adjust spine.

Ill be the oddball here.....I wouldn’t start with a bow not legal to hunt with. If the goal is to hunt, get what you need to have and work up to it. But there is a difference from just wanting to be able to “shoot” and ”working” on trad bow strength. You have to shoot a lot to stay consistent.

35 pounds could be legal in his state. I’m in Ohio and 40 is the legal limit. 35 is the limit in several states.

 

[krumfola]

Lots of great info here. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[Deerman406]

Get a .700 spine cut it to 29"s if ya draw 27.5 to 28"s and put a 175 grain head on it and you will be right there. If you tell me your exact draw length I can get ya where ya need to be. You could also go to .800 spine and shoot a lighter head. Shawn

 

[Coleman011]

I know this doesn't relate to tuning but if you can afford it I would highly recommend taking Tom Clum's Shoot Solid Archery Mechanics online course. It was the best $200 I've spend on archery. I was really skeptical spending that much on an online course but it greatly improved my shooting for both traditional bows and my compound.

 

[JSEXTON23]

Get a .700 spine cut it to 29"s if ya draw 27.5 to 28"s and put a 175 grain head on it and you will be right there. If you tell me your exact draw length I can get ya where ya need to be. You could also go to .800 spine and shoot a lighter head. Shawn

No offense meant, but I would disagree with anybody suggesting they could tell somebody else what spine arrow to shoot.

The main reason I say this is personal form, what you are ACTUALLY drawing at a good, solid anchor, your release (I pluck sometimes and get a weak bare shaft with the stiffest of arrows), and most importantly (and what I believe to be the biggest factor in what would determine spine requirements outside of draw length and draw weight.) the center cut of YOUR bow (even two bows made by the same bowyer or same mass production company are not the same). A 1/8" difference in center cut of a riser is the difference between at least one, if not two spine groups.

I would suggest a 35 pound bow or lighter. Even my 42# longbow could be misused to develop bad shooting form if put into the hands of the uninitiated. Honestly, an idea that I have had, if I could go back in time and start over, is get an old 20 pound fiberglass bow that could safely be dry fired. Practice form with that and get a 40# bow as my actual shooting bow. Do the bulk of form practice with the fiberglass bow ( or any super light bow, you can even get .1000 spine arrows that shoot acceptably out of it). Then only shoot 5 or 10 very well executed shots with the 40# bow. Do that for a month, and slowly build up to the 40# bow to the point you can execute your shot cycle for 60-80 arrows.

 

[kbetts]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around such light weights. Does anyone even try to pull a bow over 45#? We are grown men in most cases, with many shooting 70# compounds. I’m all for training light, but in hunting you are looking at one shot mostly. A 35# legal bow, tuned to a 10 gpi arrow is 350 grains. Most of my broadheads are 200. I do not think I’d consider shooting a deer with a 350 grain arrow.

I started with a 60+# Black Widow MA bought from an older gentleman in my town. I’d shoot a few a day. Two weeks in I stuck my first nock....ever......compound included. Look at a form clock first. Learn to bear down and concentrate on the smallest spot you want to hit, draw, anchor, let it slide. The stronger you are, the better you’ll shoot. Fact.

 

[Wodje96]

I know this doesn't relate to tuning but if you can afford it I would highly recommend taking Tom Clum's Shoot Solid Archery Mechanics online course. It was the best $200 I've spend on archery. I was really skeptical spending that much on an online course but it greatly improved my shooting for both traditional bows and my compound.

This is a great suggestion. It will save you soo much time and money in swapping out gear in the future and you'll be able to actually hit things!

 

[Allegheny Tom]

No offense meant, but I would disagree with anybody suggesting they could tell somebody else what spine arrow to shoot.

The main reason I say this is personal form, what you are ACTUALLY drawing at a good, solid anchor, your release (I pluck sometimes and get a weak bare shaft with the stiffest of arrows), and most importantly (and what I believe to be the biggest factor in what would determine spine requirements outside of draw length and draw weight.) the center cut of YOUR bow (even two bows made by the same bowyer or same mass production company are not the same). A 1/8" difference in center cut of a riser is the difference between at least one, if not two spine groups.

I would suggest a 35 pound bow or lighter. Even my 42# longbow could be misused to develop bad shooting form if put into the hands of the uninitiated. Honestly, an idea that I have had, if I could go back in time and start over, is get an old 20 pound fiberglass bow that could safely be dry fired. Practice form with that and get a 40# bow as my actual shooting bow. Do the bulk of form practice with the fiberglass bow ( or any super light bow, you can even get .1000 spine arrows that shoot acceptably out of it). Then only shoot 5 or 10 very well executed shots with the 40# bow. Do that for a month, and slowly build up to the 40# bow to the point you can execute your shot cycle for 60-80 arrows.

Definitely correct on shaft advice. Its impossible to know the amount of center cut and yep, an eighth inch difference can make a big difference in which shaft is right.

For "dry firing" trad bows, get an Astra Shot Trainer. They are a useful tool for developing form and strength.
There are some DIY versions of the Shot Trainer, too.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Deerman406]

Been tuning recurves for a lot of years and I have owned hundreds of customs as well as production bows. It is not hard at all to get someone close if you know the bow and their draw length. I started shooting 90 plus pound recurves in the 80s and now shoot 42-48# bows due to shoulder injuries. I assure anyone and you can ask a lot a folk in the so called "Trad community if I know my ****e and they will tell you I do. Again my recommendation will be very close!! Shawn

 

[JSEXTON23]

Been tuning recurves for a lot of years and I have owned hundreds of customs as well as production bows. It is not hard at all to get someone close if you know the bow and their draw length. I started shooting 90 plus pound recurves in the 80s and now shoot 42-48# bows due to shoulder injuries. I assure anyone and you can ask a lot a folk in the so called "Trad community if I know my ****e and they will tell you I do. Again my recommendation will be very close!! Shawn

challenge accepted. 60” Maddog Prairie Predator 46#@28”. I draw 28”. I’d like to know the arrow spine and length I need to shoot to tune 200 grains up front.

 

[Deerman406]

You can go with a 29" .600 spine or you can go with a long .500 spine, if you do than 33"s and even at that ya may be a bit stiff. Carbon recovers from paradox way quicker than wood or aluminum thus you can shoot a lighter spine with traditional bows. I know many guys shooting hill style bows who hog hunt, they all shoot around a 28" draw and a lot of them shoot a .500 spine cut to 29-30"s with anywhere from 325 to 400 grains up front. I know your bow is not a Hill style but a mild R/D and Mike makes a pretty good performimg bow so like I said you will be very close with my recommendations. I would start with a 30" ,600 and the 200 grains and cut back a half inch if it is a bit weak at 30"s but as I said 29"s should have you balls on. Shawn

 

[Brokefarmer]

I've got another challenge for you Deerman! Currently shooting a Samick discovery riser off a bear weather rest and tradtech stubby plunger with 45" @ my 26" draw medium length limbs. Right now I'm shooting Big Jim dark timber 600's @ 28" with 50 grain brass inserts and 150 gr points for 440 gr total. Bare shafts and fletched fly great. Now the question, I'd like to turn the limb bolts in for 48# @ my 26", should I stick with 600's or bump up to 500's? I'd like to stay in the 9-10 grains per lb range. With my current set up and 3 under my point on is 18ish yds so I don't want to go much heavier! New to this crap and it's driving me crazy!!! Thanks for any help!

 

[JSEXTON23]

You can go with a 29" .600 spine or you can go with a long .500 spine, if you do than 33"s and even at that ya may be a bit stiff. Carbon recovers from paradox way quicker than wood or aluminum thus you can shoot a lighter spine with traditional bows. I know many guys shooting hill style bows who hog hunt, they all shoot around a 28" draw and a lot of them shoot a .500 spine cut to 29-30"s with anywhere from 325 to 400 grains up front. I know your bow is not a Hill style but a mild R/D and Mike makes a pretty good performimg bow so like I said you will be very close with my recommendations. I would start with a 30" ,600 and the 200 grains and cut back a half inch if it is a bit weak at 30"s but as I said 29"s should have you balls on. Shawn

30.25 500 with 300 up front is in fact a bit stiff. You’ve earned my approval. I stand corrected.

I might get some 32” Dark Timber 500s and give them a try

 

[Sempertodd]

If you do not have a mentor, or find one at a 3d shoot, I recommend go with light bow, get some carbon arrows WITH feathers (easier to find today). Then, adjust the brace height to the spec they recommend, or right in middle of it (distance from handle to bowstring), put a nock on the string, about 1/2" higher than level. No rest on bow, now stand about 5-7 yards from target, come up and work on form. If need be stand closer, no shame in learning proper form. We need to get good form first, do not worry about where on target hitting. We are trying to get a group! Once we have a group, this means your form is consistent. At that stage we can begin to learn aiming, and fine tune bow/arrows. No sense in trying to get everything tuned up when your form is off, once fixed it will change. Just get form down first.

 

[raisins]

No offense meant, but I would disagree with anybody suggesting they could tell somebody else what spine arrow to shoot.

The main reason I say this is personal form, what you are ACTUALLY drawing at a good, solid anchor, your release (I pluck sometimes and get a weak bare shaft with the stiffest of arrows), and most importantly (and what I believe to be the biggest factor in what would determine spine requirements outside of draw length and draw weight.) the center cut of YOUR bow (even two bows made by the same bowyer or same mass production company are not the same). A 1/8" difference in center cut of a riser is the difference between at least one, if not two spine groups.

I would suggest a 35 pound bow or lighter. Even my 42# longbow could be misused to develop bad shooting form if put into the hands of the uninitiated. Honestly, an idea that I have had, if I could go back in time and start over, is get an old 20 pound fiberglass bow that could safely be dry fired. Practice form with that and get a 40# bow as my actual shooting bow. Do the bulk of form practice with the fiberglass bow ( or any super light bow, you can even get .1000 spine arrows that shoot acceptably out of it). Then only shoot 5 or 10 very well executed shots with the 40# bow. Do that for a month, and slowly build up to the 40# bow to the point you can execute your shot cycle for 60-80 arrows.

Some folks are either blessed with or develop a "quiet" release and and can shoot lighter spine arrows (not that it is suggest to do just to do). I'm convinced that a slow mo video would show a less violent archer's paradox. A quiet release hand moves backward at the shot in a straight line in a graceful way without any obvious flutter. I found shooting a tab with a deep bite on the string helped this.