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Bad Penetration.....Again

weekender21

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Aug 19, 2018
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Hawaii and North Carolina
Kurt, I have been shooting Rage 3 blades for the last 15 years and have literally killed hundreds of hogs, deer and exotics. I recently switched to the trypans because I was tired of replacing the broad head after every animal. I always had pass throughs with the older 3 blades, but I have shot 4 animals with the trypans and none have passed through. If you look at the older cut on contact tip of the 3 blades the ferrule was slightly conical after the tip, which allowed the head to go around bone, I believe the chisel tip on the trypans has a tendency to lodge in bone as opposed to deflecting around it. I will switch away from the trypans after hearing your story, I thought my occurrences were flukes.
What are your thoughts on the newer blade capture on the trypans? It seems to require more force to open the broadhead but I don’t have a ton of experience with them.


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Wirrex

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Oct 8, 2016
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WI
If you listen to some of the top shooters in the world like Levi they don’t even worry about FOC that much and when asked Levi didn’t even know the foc of his hunting setup. Imo it’s not as important as a properly built arrow and tuned bow. Also it’s worth getting an arrow spinner to check for alignment of broadhead I’ve noticed that sometimes they need to be micro adjusted to get to spin true
It really doesn’t matter what they shoot if their shots are perfect every time.

The way I see it, having more weight up front is invaluable when shooting a fixed head. The potential for the broadhead to steer the arrow is much higher with a fixed blade. That’s why you never shoot a bareshaft with a broadhead on it. It’s the same as adding fletching to control the arrow just on the opposite end.
 

swampsnyper

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Mar 10, 2015
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Warrior, Al
I didn’t read all 200 plus post. But I seen someone say the inserts are slipping. That’s my thoughts also. Did you glue them yourself with the epoxy provided? Also axis style arrows offer that little cap piece that goes over the arrow end and performs like an outsert over the top of the shaft. I think they call them bar??? That may help. From the even mushrooming on the shafts, it seems to be impacting straight on. I think your tuning is fine.

I shot at an iron buck target where just the heart hole was cut out. If you miss the hole, you break your arrow.
That’s exactly how my shafts looked. It hit so hard it pushed the insert back.
 

Rg176bnc

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Mar 23, 2014
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210
That arrow failure is sucking all the momentum out of your shot. I have almost the exact same set up as yours minus the FMJ and unless I hit the main portion of the spine I get a pass thru.

Those Trypans are LEGIT! Im not a Rage fan and will be the first to say they were garbage the first couple years they were out. If you want to shoot fixed Im sure Ive got some I could trade you for the Trypans.
 

Apex7

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Jan 6, 2017
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Pittsburgh Pa
If you shot those arrows a lot that may have weakened over time . I have seen carbon arrows do that. Check your arrows by grabbing the shaft with both hands and twist in the opposite direction and check for cracks. Just a thought.
 

Southpawshooter

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Aug 22, 2018
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I prefer the standard Axis shafts over the FMJ for durability. The aluminum skin can bend or dent ruining the shaft. A full carbon shaft won’t do that. I didn’t see what glue you are using but a strong epoxy is recommended. Brass HIT inserts won’t bend like the aluminum insert will. A footing on the shaft will help prevent mushrooming. I cut up an aluminum arrow for footings. I shoot at the Muzzy stump shoot which is very rocky terrain and this arrow build has proven to be very durable.
 

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Kurt

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Nov 1, 2018
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Massachusetts
Don’t go too far down that rabbit hole, you’ll end up with a $400 spine tester to identify the stiff/weak side. It’s a slippery slope (ask me how I know). Honestly, I enjoy the process and the detailed method certainly will build your confidence.


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I do have to be careful, as I have a tendency to run with stuff. I do like the idea of not being tied to the local bow shop to much.
 

Kurt

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Nov 1, 2018
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Massachusetts
I concur about the BAR adapter I never used it. I do believe his arrows must have passed through and hit something hard to push insert back into arrow which I’ve had happen myself. My issues with the fmj were this as well as I’ve had them dent or bend from shooting groups. With the aluminum once then bend or get a dent mine as well throw them in the trash. I went to a full carbon shaft gt xt hunters and I’ve beet the crap out of these arrows. I’ve shot them into trees and just unscrewed the field point and put a new one on. I have also broke them but not nearly as brittle as the fmj imo. The concept is great for building a heavy arrow just not as durable.
The BAR as it turns out is only needed on some heads and not others. The Rage Trypan is one of them. The damage to the shafts are all due to the head hitting one rib, and the damage to the broad head tip and blade are all from rib bone. The tips seem to curl super easy. The Trypan doesn't have enough collar so the ferrule was being pushed down into the shaft at impact causing the shaft ends to split. The BAR I'm sure would take care of that problem if I wanted to continue to use the broad head. The force required to open the blade has to suck a ton of energy out of arrow, robbing penetration. I may buy a half dozen of FMJs and build a better arrow using that shaft, and a half doz. gold tips and making arrows with them as well. Either way It'll be a beefier version with more total weight and a higher FOC. I want a broad head, and components that can also withstand the rigors of bone and what all.
 

swampsnyper

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Mar 10, 2015
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I have been using Grizzly broadheads with steel broadhead adaptors on axis traditional shafts with brass hit inserts, 2in of aluminum arrow footing on the shaft, and no BAR. about 600gr of finished arrow from a 55# longbow at 25in draw and it has been smashing, bear, hogs and whitetail. Very impressed.
 

Gamover06

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Oct 24, 2018
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365
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SE Minneosta
Did not read everything but did the read the first page. I am pretty much 100% that your glue failed or the broadhead was not seated next to the shaft due to hit insert not bein installed properly. I am not a big fan of HIT inserts. If I really liked an arrow that used HIT I would also add a footing to help the arrow strength at the business end.
 

gameflogger

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Dec 2, 2014
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Texas
What are your thoughts on the newer blade capture on the trypans? It seems to require more force to open the broadhead but I don’t have a ton of experience with them.


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I am not that fond of the newer shock collars vs the old o ring style blade retention system. The only drawback to the 3 blade rages with the o ring was if you were stalking with them, they would open up from catching on grass and brush
 

Blacksmith

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Dec 10, 2018
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390
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Bucyrus OH

Jason Wandling

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Dec 2, 2018
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Scott Depot West Virginia
The BAR as it turns out is only needed on some heads and not others. The Rage Trypan is one of them. The damage to the shafts are all due to the head hitting one rib, and the damage to the broad head tip and blade are all from rib bone. The tips seem to curl super easy. The Trypan doesn't have enough collar so the ferrule was being pushed down into the shaft at impact causing the shaft ends to split. The BAR I'm sure would take care of that problem if I wanted to continue to use the broad head. The force required to open the blade has to suck a ton of energy out of arrow, robbing penetration. I may buy a half dozen of FMJs and build a better arrow using that shaft, and a half doz. gold tips and making arrows with them as well. Either way It'll be a beefier version with more total weight and a higher FOC. I want a broad head, and components that can also withstand the rigors of bone and what all.
Save your money and just buy a dozen gold tips and the FACT weighs. Get 300 spine, don’t bother with 340 if you’re planning on adding weight and shooting 70 pounds. For whitetail anything from 450-500 is sufficient. I like the GT Velocity because it’s a lighter shaft and my foc is greater without going crazy on weight. It’s very flat out to 40 yards. I’m going to be ordering another dozen soon and going with an extra 50 grain weight to bring the total to 500 with a 20% foc. Make sure to put a bit of lock tight on the weight screws though, they will loosen after a bit if you don’t. eBay sells all the components you need.
 
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