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Bad Penetration.....Again

Also, what weight are the rage broadheads that you used? I use the same aluminum HIT insert, and with a standard 100-125 grain head my FOC was extremely low. I had to bump my head weight up to 165-170 grains just to have decent FOC
 
Gotcha, I usually shoot the next stiffer spine on the Easton chart but if your draw weight, arrow length, and draw length are good on the chart then your arrows should be fine to shoot.

I’m assuming you haven’t been shooting that exact batch of a dozen arrows for seven years but if you were, I wouldn’t be surprised if that has something to do with it. I shoot standard FMJ’s with my recurve and have noticed “mushrooming” when I stump shoot.

I finally went back to Easton carbon Axis. Carbon is either broken or GTG, nothing in between. If you like the extra weight, try a stiffer spine with the 50 or 75 grain HIT inserts. I’m currently shooting 260 spine Axis (the stiffest available) with 75 grain brass insert and 100 grain BH. 532 grain total arrow weight. They fly awesome out of my compound and penetration is never an issue.

Confidence is everything and it might be time for you to change a few things. Good luck with your findings.


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I have nearly the same arrow setup. I think with the brass inserts you get a lot more contact with the shaft when glued. I use regular old hot melt and never have a problem. I also use the Easton collars. They seemed to help the mushrooming a little on the fmj’s and I just carried them over to my axis arrows.
 
Are you screwing the broadheads directly to the shaft? Easton makes broadhead adaptor rings meant to be used on micro diameter arrows that pretty much prevents the arrow from mushrooming like that. The other day I shot through my target, arrow deflected off of a root, and was found stuck in a fence, halfway down the broadhead. No damage to the FMJ shaftView attachment 21382
Ah..good ol zwickies.
 
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I love my Simmons tree sharks. I shoot them from my Centaur and turned my compound down to 55 and they fly like guided lasers from it too. 190gr and 2” cut on contact. They make some smaller stouter heads though in the 1 1/2” range around 160gr that should do for your high poundage. The blade design make the holes the cut pop open way bigger than the actual cut. They are nasty.
 
Where those paper shots with broadhead? How far away? For giggles take a razor and cut your vanes off one arrow and shoot through paper and compare to yours. Wether it be bow or my from that tear is an issue and will only amplify itself when you screw a fixed blade on. The gold tip xt is an excellent arrow been running them for at least 5-6 years (since I threw my FMJ in the trash :))
 
Tune your bow. It seems really clear to me that is the issue here. I don't care for mechs for other reasons, but they will kill just fine on a tuned arrow.

FMJ are probably the best hunting shaft on the market but if you don't get them square with the HIT inserts, you will get some that won't fly. Evrryone should be testing each individual hunting arrow to make sure it flies true.
 
Are you screwing the broadheads directly to the shaft? Easton makes broadhead adaptor rings meant to be used on micro diameter arrows that pretty much prevents the arrow from mushrooming like that. The other day I shot through my target, arrow deflected off of a root, and was found stuck in a fence, halfway down the broadhead. No damage to the FMJ shaftView attachment 21382
This is right. Especially with mechanicals you must use the adapter rings or the arrows will mushrooms out on impact
 
Just something to consider.If you are not getting a good tear flat footed on the ground Do you think it could be worse twisted out of a saddle and a little pumped with adrenaline.That arrow set up will shoot like a dart if tuned properly.As far as experience with that particular mechanical i have none . And even though i am not a huge fan mechanicals will do a good job for ya if on the right set up and you Stay away from the front shoulder.Good Luck
When I shot my buck I was twisted up. With the doe I was dead on my feet and shooting straight down on my strong side.

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Are you screwing the broadheads directly to the shaft? Easton makes broadhead adaptor rings meant to be used on micro diameter arrows that pretty much prevents the arrow from mushrooming like that. The other day I shot through my target, arrow deflected off of a root, and was found stuck in a fence, halfway down the broadhead. No damage to the FMJ shaftView attachment 21382
Yes I am. I had no idea those were needed. It definitely answers that question. Thank you

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Also, what weight are the rage broadheads that you used? I use the same aluminum HIT insert, and with a standard 100-125 grain head my FOC was extremely low. I had to bump my head weight up to 165-170 grains just to have decent FOC
I'm shooting 100 g.

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Are you screwing the broadheads directly to the shaft? Easton makes broadhead adaptor rings meant to be used on micro diameter arrows that pretty much prevents the arrow from mushrooming like that. The other day I shot through my target, arrow deflected off of a root, and was found stuck in a fence, halfway down the broadhead. No damage to the FMJ shaftView attachment 21382

Never heard of these I have been shooting micro diameter arrows for years. I’ve never had one do what his arrows are doing.


See you in a tree, Ricky
 
Where those paper shots with broadhead? How far away? For giggles take a razor and cut your vanes off one arrow and shoot through paper and compare to yours. Wether it be bow or my from that tear is an issue and will only amplify itself when you screw a fixed blade on. The gold tip xt is an excellent arrow been running them for at least 5-6 years (since I threw my FMJ in the trash :))
They were shot with field points.I'll shoot a bare shaft today to compare the results. @ Matki15 found the reason the shafts are blowing up. I failed to use a BAR (broadhead adapter ring).
 
She was standing EXACTLY broadside, EXACTLY. If you look at the entry and exit it would look like she was standing quartering to, she was not. It's some sort of deflected arrow penetration. It hit where I aimed and the exit is further back than it should be. Somebody tell me how that happens.
I believe that the deer changes its angle AFTER the arrow is released. We've all seen the slo mo vids of how much a deer drops or spins at the sound of the shot.
My buck this year was similar to your story except my shot was a quartering away angle. I aimed for the far shoulder which put the entrance back just behind the last rib. I hit where I was aiming but the exit ended up slightly farther back...I ended up with a one lung hit. I conclude that the deer spun as the arrow was in the air. What SHOULD have been a sharp quartering angle turned out to be slightly more towards broadside by the time the arrow arrived. My arrow entered at the aiming point but the deer changed its angle so, in the end, the aiming point was no longer the correct spot. My shot went where I aimed, but the deer changed angles.
Broadheads can also deflect on bone and the larger the head, the more chance it can happen. A wide blade head, like most mechanical heads are, can deflect on ribs if it hits at just the wrong angle.
We can be the greatest shot but things can happen AFTER we've released the arrow that is totally out of our control.
 
Reading your arrow weight and how that looks on paper(not terrible) i think your culprit is the BH cut is too large. The mechanical action of the BH(no matter the brand) requires energy and the blade's surface area require energy. I think you'll see better results with a smaller cutting head. A few 2" mechanical cutting heads require a MINIMUM of 65 ft-lbs of KE. You can use the info provided by the link to determine yours but thats my educated guess.


Using the KE info you sent it looks like I have plenty. Thank you.
 
I believe that the deer changes its angle AFTER the arrow is released. We've all seen the slo mo vids of how much a deer drops or spins at the sound of the shot.
My buck this year was similar to your story except my shot was a quartering away angle. I aimed for the far shoulder which put the entrance back just behind the last rib. I hit where I was aiming but the exit ended up slightly farther back...I ended up with a one lung hit. I conclude that the deer spun as the arrow was in the air. What SHOULD have been a sharp quartering angle turned out to be slightly more towards broadside by the time the arrow arrived. My arrow entered at the aiming point but the deer changed its angle so, in the end, the aiming point was no longer the correct spot. My shot went where I aimed, but the deer changed angles.
Broadheads can also deflect on bone and the larger the head, the more chance it can happen. A wide blade head, like most mechanical heads are, can deflect on ribs if it hits at just the wrong angle.
We can be the greatest shot but things can happen AFTER we've released the arrow that is totally out of our control.
I'm thinking I have determined through all the help everyone has offered that the culprit is an improperly assembled arrow. Thanks to @Matki15 who pointed out that Easton requires a broad head adapter ring to protect the shaft. Shaft integrity was compromised. I can imagine that anything can happen when the broad head is no longer solidly fixed on the shaft. I do agree with you about the deer's change in position effecting impact point and trajectory of the arrow after impact. Couple that with a an arrow that comes apart on impact and I'm pretty sure we answered the questions I needed answers to. Now moving forward, I need to think about my arrow set up, bow tuning, and broad head selection.
 
Recently used some flight time to read some of the ashby studies. Pretty interesting stuff to consider before building an arrow. I had watched the videos and they say essentially the same stuff, just more detailed. Just wish he would mention limits on game animals. He may and I just haven't gotten to that paper yet. Guess it doesn't hurt to overbuild though....that's kind of what brings the topic up.

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I believe that the deer changes its angle AFTER the arrow is released. We've all seen the slo mo vids of how much a deer drops or spins at the sound of the shot.
My buck this year was similar to your story except my shot was a quartering away angle. I aimed for the far shoulder which put the entrance back just behind the last rib. I hit where I was aiming but the exit ended up slightly farther back...I ended up with a one lung hit. I conclude that the deer spun as the arrow was in the air. What SHOULD have been a sharp quartering angle turned out to be slightly more towards broadside by the time the arrow arrived. My arrow entered at the aiming point but the deer changed its angle so, in the end, the aiming point was no longer the correct spot. My shot went where I aimed, but the deer changed angles.
Broadheads can also deflect on bone and the larger the head, the more chance it can happen. A wide blade head, like most mechanical heads are, can deflect on ribs if it hits at just the wrong angle.
We can be the greatest shot but things can happen AFTER we've released the arrow that is totally out of our control.
This happened to me as well this year. The buck went from broadside to quatering away. The 1.5 inch rage went in near the 3rd to last rib and exited the far front shoulder.

It was my first year using the rage but have been using mechanicals for a while now. Not due to any issues with fixed but the blood trails are way better than what I was used to with the fixed heads.

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I'm thinking I have determined through all the help everyone has offered that the culprit is an improperly assembled arrow. Thanks to @Matki15 who pointed out that Easton requires a broad head adapter ring to protect the shaft. Shaft integrity was compromised. I can imagine that anything can happen when the broad head is no longer solidly fixed on the shaft. I do agree with you about the deer's change in position effecting impact point and trajectory of the arrow after impact. Couple that with a an arrow that comes apart on impact and I'm pretty sure we answered the questions I needed answers to. Now moving forward, I need to think about my arrow set up, bow tuning, and broad head selection.
Glad i could help out! Also, I entered some of you arrow info into an FOC calculator, and your FOC was rather low, between 7-8 percent. Along with broadhead adaptor rings, you may want to also consider bumping up to a heavier head
 
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