Big Woods Scouting mountain terrain in PA

[phatkaw]

I just spent 3 full days bear huntin' in the ANF.
I think I saw 3 deer...

When I was a kid there was herds of deer.

 

[ThePennsylvanian]

#1 thing in the big woods pertain to where to start scouting, is stem count, thick areas, edges, hard changes in vegetation.
I focus on this 90% more than terrain. Often times when you find these thick areas they're pretty vast, acres, or even whole hillsides but not always. Once you find these areas look for terrain changes and features that you'd look for anywhere else. This is the easiest way to break the "big woods" down. Not every thicket will consistently hold deer, but they consistently hold more deer than open woods. Stem count, terrain, food, water.

 

[raisins]

#1 thing in the big woods pertain to where to start scouting, is stem count, thick areas, edges, hard changes in vegetation.
I focus on this 90% more than terrain. Often times when you find these thick areas they're pretty vast, acres, or even whole hillsides but not always. Once you find these areas look for terrain changes and features that you'd look for anywhere else. This is the easiest way to break the "big woods" down. Not every thicket will consistently hold deer, but they consistently hold more deer than open woods. Stem count, terrain, food, water.

good post, i've been in the big woods sitting in what seemed like great terrain features, but if there is no other reason for a deer to be there travelling, then it is like a beautiful but empty highway connecting two ghost towns

 

[redsquirrel]

Funnels can be created by anything from geology to stonewalls, water, fields, roads or other structure that force deer to be pinched through a small area. Some are visible on a map, and many can only be located with boots on the ground.

I've had way more luck finding effective areas like this with boots on the ground rather than maps.

 

[Hall17]

Depends on where I am hunting. Our cabin which is 3.5 hours away I do a lot of e-scouting. Finding specific areas I want to scout and get boots on the ground. Its been awhile since I've been up there for archery so being up there the last few days of the rifle season we are typically hunting doe. We usually split up and scout different areas looking for feeding sign and then set up on that for the evening. We all prefer not to drive deer so locating deer sign is key. What might be good on the first day is no longer a good area by the time we get up. This means we are scouting the oak flats surrounded by clear cuts. Hard to access flats with steep terrain or a mile or so back in. But many times the places I e-scout don't hold much sign so that is why scouting earlier in the day and setting up on those feeding areas is key. If I were hunting a buck I would scout different areas most likely.

 

[raisins]

I don't think it has been mentioned here yet, in the big woods, google earth historic imagery can be really useful. At the top, there is a slider that allows you to go back in time. Leaf off images, especially with snow on the ground, will help you find old logging roads and also edges where conifers meet deciduous. Sometimes, you can go back far enough to see clearcuts created and growing up. I wish OnX had this functionality, but it does not. Unsure of other hunting-specific apps. You can move points and polygons from google earth to Onx though.

 

[woodsdog2]

#1 thing in the big woods pertain to where to start scouting, is stem count, thick areas, edges, hard changes in vegetation.
I focus on this 90% more than terrain. Often times when you find these thick areas they're pretty vast, acres, or even whole hillsides but not always. Once you find these areas look for terrain changes and features that you'd look for anywhere else. This is the easiest way to break the "big woods" down. Not every thicket will consistently hold deer, but they consistently hold more deer than open woods. Stem count, terrain, food, water.

What a super summation of what to scout!!! Like it!!

 

[woodsdog2]

I don't think it has been mentioned here yet, in the big woods, google earth historic imagery can be really useful. At the top, there is a slider that allows you to go back in time. Leaf off images, especially with snow on the ground, will help you find old logging roads and also edges where conifers meet deciduous. Sometimes, you can go back far enough to see clearcuts created and growing up. I wish OnX had this functionality, but it does not. Unsure of other hunting-specific apps. You can move points and polygons from google earth to Onx though.

Those old logging roads and two tracks were purposefully placed to drag timber out and those were the "benches" and other terrain features that help funnel deer movement. Find the old roads, find the benches and saddles.

 

[Jammintree]

Also, looking for saddles and funnels that are clearly visible on a map is a sure way to locate other peoples tree stands. If you can see it on a map someone else already has.

 

[Plebe]

Also, looking for saddles and funnels that are clearly visible on a map is a sure way to locate other peoples tree stands. If you can see it on a map someone else already has.

This can be true. Doesn't necessarily render such spots unproductive. In fact they may still be prime hunting areas.

Or there may not be any treestands, but getting pressured nonetheless.

Or there may be no treestands and no pressure, or limited pressure.

Just depends.

Also, don't assume because there is a treestand it's some dump of a hunter. One of the best hunter/guides on ANF sets up ladderstands for his clients. It takes a bit of work hauling semi-permanent treestands in, often enough that goes hand and hand with more than just map scouting.

On the big land I've hunted, treestands are few and far between. But hunters do gravitate to those types of spots. Some get nice deer at such spots. Rarely are there hunters who string together numerous days afield where I've hunted, so pressure doesn't build like it does at some of the small parcel private I hunt.

In conclusion, geography isn't something to overlook or make assumptions about, necessarily. Saddles and funnels could be the ticket, or might not be bad jumping off points when scouting.

 

[Topdog]

To be honest I haven’t read through all the posts, but hands down the #1 way to scout big woods is on snow, if you have that luxury, about 3” of snow that is a few days old will solve a lot of questions, scout, scout, and more scouting on snow, marking everything you find with ONX, and then look at those waypoints and how they relate to saddles/funnels you mite find on maps, once you think you have things figured out, go back and scout it again, connect the dots. This is how you find camera/stand spots in the big woods, anything else is a pig in a poke.

 

[MJH]

What is the rough scale of this photo? 2km x 3km?

 

[Hlzr]

Hunting the big woods of the ANF I look at the topo for terrain features and then look for hard edges that coincide with that, as stated above add in old logging roads that the deer can use around these areas and you have a start, for pre rut its imperative that you find the preferred food source of the buck and also the nearest doe groups, acorns are the obvious first choice, but when they aren't available I begin with the clearcuts.

I will weigh in on some of the opinions stated above about the deer herd in the ANF, I have hunted the southern edge off of the Kinzu reservoir since I was a kid, I think it was 82, and have seen a lot change over the decades, and I know from spending time further east in the Potter area that it is completely different. That being said the areas we hunt have more than enough clearcuts both fenced and non fenced of all different ages, there are also plenty of overgrown and unused access roads and gas wells that add edge cover, I find that there is no shortage of deer cover or opp to browse. You can also consider that the amount of blow downs consistently spread throughout what was once standing hardwoods add even more thick cover, dare I say too much cover to allow a guy to narrow it down easily. The amount of deer tracks I saw the first 3 days of fresh snow during rifle season was overwhelming to be honest, after seeing that I will never concede that the herd is anything but healthy. IMO there are some things that have changed hunting up there that force us to change, back in the good old days the camps on the outskirts were filled with fellows that hunted for multiple days and never were more than a 1/4 mile from camp, this worked because back then the winters were more severe and the deer tended to "yard" up close to the agriculture that was present then, it has lessoned considerably both because of the milder winters and less agg. Many of these guys who sat the same ridge or on the same rock for years were the ones who blamed everything from coyotes to the doe harvest, and literally everything in between, on there lack of success. I also have been thinking about the social dynamics of the deer herd up there since the antler restrictions were put in place, I believe it foolish to not think that giving the overall herd the opportunity to extend the age structure of Buck and the herd in general has not had an effect on the social structure and behavior of the mature deer we all aspire to harvest, not having 2 year old PA 8 pointers running around breeding every doe they could find, and many of them being shot before they turned 3, definitely has had an effect, I believe that's why doe groups are smaller and scattered everywhere and the Buck have there ladies lined up long before NOV. Just some ramblings, I'd like to see a Pa ANF thread to hear what others think about some of this stuff.