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Chronic Overthinking...Is Trad Archery Simple???

I forgot to give you my setup...so here it goes:
  • Bear Grizzly 45#
  • 31.5" Axis Trad 500 spine
  • shooting 3 under (tab)
  • 175 gr zwickey bh (which I have heard now that I may need a lighter head ~100gr)
  • String...unknown (don't know how to tell what kind of string it is)
  • Also, I am a millenial......so if you could do everthing for me that would be great :)
Im assuming that era bow does not have a fast flight string and probably shouldn't have ff shot on it.
Also, arrow spine is dynamic. Several things can effect how stiff a spine you need...and I know...all of a sudden these trad guys are making this seem complicated. I really believe paper tuning can short cut a lot of answers.
If your spine is weak, here are possible solutions...
Shorten the shaft.
Lighten the point or add weight to the nock end.
Build out the window. Its easy to just add a little shim of varying thickness to see how it effects the flight. Temporarily tape a toothpick, paper clip, etc to the window and see if that helps a weak shaft. Make sure the contact point is directly above the push point of the handle.

And did I miss it? What exactly is your issue? Poor arrow flight, or bad groups?
And what are you expecting? 12 yard groups? 30 yard stuff?

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I think trad is way more mentally and physically complicated. I was recurve only for 6 years and always messing with my setup. I haven’t really touched my compound setup since I got it dialed in 2 seasons ago.

The problem with trad is there are too many variables that have a great change in the shot.
 
I bought myself a nice used recurve last year and started shooting. I started playing around with the “daily trad challenge” that was going on in a thread in here and it was fun. Lots of fun, actually, and I was shooting what I would classify as way better than I thought I would. In a short period of time I could come home, string my bow, grab 5 arrows, walk outside and shoot a group that would allow me to grab all 5 arrows with one hand at 15 yards. And it was fun, did I mention that!???

Then a hardcore trad friend of mine questioned my groups so I made a video and again I had a baseball sized group at 15 yards. Then the form critiquing started.....not doing this, not doing that, pull with this, squeeze that, be surprised by the shot.....ad nauseam. And my groups suffered. And it wasn’t fun no more. So I put the bow up and haven’t touched it since. So much for the damn zen. I have a SwitchbackXT that’s pure Zen. And a 25-06 that’s pure Zen. And a .270 that’s pure Zen

Seriously, after a week of shooting I was convinced that I would kill a deer with that recurve last year and a little over a week later I put it away and never thought about it again.

ETA: well damn, see what I mean??? I started out with the simple intention of answering your question then derailed into a rabbit hole of loathsomeness

To answer your question, yes, trad shooting is simple. Until you listen to the voices around you who wake up the voices inside you and suddenly the whole damn thing is over complicated
 
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The MENTAL side of Barebow is what’s hard no gadgets to cover up bad shot EXECUTIONAnd aiming has little to do with being very ACCURATE

go at it like this would u shot a rifle with out making sure all ur form was inline ?

TOOK ME ALONG TIME , to long to figure this out
 
I bought myself a nice used recurve last year and started shooting. I started playing around with the “daily trad challenge” that was going on in a thread in here and it was fun. Lots of fun, actually, and I was shooting what I would classify as way better than I thought I would. In a short period of time I could come home, string my bow, grab 5 arrows, walk outside and shoot a group that would allow me to grab all 5 arrows with one hand at 15 yards. And it was fun, did I mention that!???

Then a hardcore trad friend of mine questioned my groups so I made a video and again I had a baseball sized group at 15 yards. Then the form critiquing started.....not doing this, not doing that, pull with this, squeeze that, be surprised by the shot.....ad nauseam. And my groups suffered. And it wasn’t fun no more. So I put the bow up and haven’t touched it since. So much for the damn zen. I have a SwitchbackXT that’s pure Zen. And a 25-06 that’s pure Zen. And a .270 that’s pure Zen

Seriously, after a week of shooting I was convinced that I would kill a deer with that recurve last year and a little over a week later I put it away and never thought about it again.

ETA: well damn, see what I mean??? I started out with the simple intention of answering your question then derailed into a rabbit hole of loathsomeness

To answer your question, yes, trad shooting is simple. Until you listen to the voices around you who wake up the voices inside you and suddenly the whole damn thing is over complicated

Yes and amen to all this....insane parallel to my experience fly fishing as well.
Zen...advice...critiques...rabbit holes...frustration...back to zen

Luckily I feel now that I have a good starting point. After starting this thread. Use and tune what I have. Shoot. Have fun. Fine tune incrementally/gradually. Shoot more. Kill deerses


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Im assuming that era bow does not have a fast flight string and probably shouldn't have ff shot on it.
Also, arrow spine is dynamic. Several things can effect how stiff a spine you need...and I know...all of a sudden these trad guys are making this seem complicated. I really believe paper tuning can short cut a lot of answers.
If your spine is weak, here are possible solutions...
Shorten the shaft.
Lighten the point or add weight to the nock end.
Build out the window. Its easy to just add a little shim of varying thickness to see how it effects the flight. Temporarily tape a toothpick, paper clip, etc to the window and see if that helps a weak shaft. Make sure the contact point is directly above the push point of the handle.

And did I miss it? What exactly is your issue? Poor arrow flight, or bad groups?
And what are you expecting? 12 yard groups? 30 yard stuff?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Inconsistent groups 15-20 yds. High likelihood I’m blaming my setup when I should be blaming my poor technique


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Inconsistent groups 15-20 yds. High likelihood I’m blaming my setup when I should be blaming my poor technique


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know about that ..... could be the case but my 45# grizzly is a really heavy bow @30". I would bet you are drawing a lot more weight than you think @31". Short recurves with long draw lengths are top of the food chain hard to shoot. You can do it but not a real forgiving setup. I'll bet your spine is off on the light side and that is not helping you out. Go into 5-10 yards and get some groups. If you can do that then you can punch some paper and really see what is going on.
 
I bought myself a nice used recurve last year and started shooting. I started playing around with the “daily trad challenge” that was going on in a thread in here and it was fun. Lots of fun, actually, and I was shooting what I would classify as way better than I thought I would. In a short period of time I could come home, string my bow, grab 5 arrows, walk outside and shoot a group that would allow me to grab all 5 arrows with one hand at 15 yards. And it was fun, did I mention that!???

Then a hardcore trad friend of mine questioned my groups so I made a video and again I had a baseball sized group at 15 yards. Then the form critiquing started.....not doing this, not doing that, pull with this, squeeze that, be surprised by the shot.....ad nauseam. And my groups suffered. And it wasn’t fun no more. So I put the bow up and haven’t touched it since. So much for the damn zen. I have a SwitchbackXT that’s pure Zen. And a 25-06 that’s pure Zen. And a .270 that’s pure Zen

Seriously, after a week of shooting I was convinced that I would kill a deer with that recurve last year and a little over a week later I put it away and never thought about it again.

ETA: well damn, see what I mean??? I started out with the simple intention of answering your question then derailed into a rabbit hole of loathsomeness

To answer your question, yes, trad shooting is simple. Until you listen to the voices around you who wake up the voices inside you and suddenly the whole damn thing is over complicated

Truth! The internet is full of experts! Hell, I’m the best expert there is, just ask my wife!

Traditional is the old way. It has its own challenge different from modern archery and relies more on your efforts and less on technology. As with the compound your shooting form is important and it deserves attention if you want to have consistency. Your bow and arrow set up is important and deserves attention if you want to have consistency. Practice, practice, more practice, then a little more is important....

Many voices can get confusing, focus on one or two and ignore the others.
 
I think it's important to keep realistic expectations. Especially when going trad after years of shooting tech bows.
Guys get so proficient with the tech gear and quickly learn to shoot tight groups out to distances beyond what they will actually shoot on game. Then they pick up a trad bow and reality sets in.
For me, my compound got boring, and that was way back in the 1980s when compounds were a little more difficult to shoot than they are today.
So I went trad and expected that I would shoot somewhat acceptable out to 20 yards...NOPE. Okay, how about 17 yards? Better but still not acceptable. I had to get down to around 14 yards before my groups were decent. Meanwhile, I was developing bad habits and losing confidence. I expected too much of myself when I went from the compound to the recurve and I struggled for a while.
The biggest challenge was just accepting the fact that I was cutting off at least 15 or 20 yards off my ethically effective range. I'd killed a fair number of deer at that point in my life, so it wasn't a big deal not filling my tag every year. I began to take pressure off of myself, and lo and behold my shooting and success rate started going way up.

Everyone can hunt with trad gear. It's just a matter of accepting that your effective range will probably be cut in half of what it was with wheels, sights, and releases.
Get very close to a bare bale and shoot until your groups are tight and your confidence is steady. Then work your way farther back until you discover what yardage that your groups degrade. Then accept that reality.
 
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Been shooting trad now for 2 years. my biggest advice I can give from my experiences is, STAY CONSISTENT. If you have "bad form" so what its YOUR FORM! I'd rather have bad form and hit a golf ball at 20 yards then good form and not hit a beach ball at 10. when you don't stay consistent things start changing and you cant figure out WHY!!! Your draw length, your anchor, your release, keep it all the same every time. Now that's the hard part of it. it will be hard as all get out to tune a arrow if your not consistent. spend a week or 2 just shooting getting your mechanics down being consistent, then try to tune a arrow for good strait flight. but most of all KEEP IT FUN. as soon as its not fun or frustrating put the bow down walk away you will just make things worse.
 
Been shooting trad now for 2 years. my biggest advice I can give from my experiences is, STAY CONSISTENT. If you have "bad form" so what its YOUR FORM! I'd rather have bad form and hit a golf ball at 20 yards then good form and not hit a beach ball at 10. when you don't stay consistent things start changing and you cant figure out WHY!!! Your draw length, your anchor, your release, keep it all the same every time.

I have a friend who shoots longbows and he is the guy you can point to and say “don’t do anything he does” and he doesn’t miss.
 
I bought myself a nice used recurve last year and started shooting. I started playing around with the “daily trad challenge” that was going on in a thread in here and it was fun. Lots of fun, actually, and I was shooting what I would classify as way better than I thought I would. In a short period of time I could come home, string my bow, grab 5 arrows, walk outside and shoot a group that would allow me to grab all 5 arrows with one hand at 15 yards. And it was fun, did I mention that!???

Then a hardcore trad friend of mine questioned my groups so I made a video and again I had a baseball sized group at 15 yards. Then the form critiquing started.....not doing this, not doing that, pull with this, squeeze that, be surprised by the shot.....ad nauseam. And my groups suffered. And it wasn’t fun no more. So I put the bow up and haven’t touched it since. So much for the damn zen. I have a SwitchbackXT that’s pure Zen. And a 25-06 that’s pure Zen. And a .270 that’s pure Zen

Seriously, after a week of shooting I was convinced that I would kill a deer with that recurve last year and a little over a week later I put it away and never thought about it again.

ETA: well damn, see what I mean??? I started out with the simple intention of answering your question then derailed into a rabbit hole of loathsomeness

To answer your question, yes, trad shooting is simple. Until you listen to the voices around you who wake up the voices inside you and suddenly the whole damn thing is over complicated
first thing you should do is pick the bow back up and get shooting again, going back to fun, forget about your friends and just shoot.
 
first thing you should do is pick the bow back up and get shooting again, going back to fun, forget about your friends and just shoot.

yep, and second thing you should do is listen to folks...particularly internet keyboard experts.
Someone mentioned flyfishing -I had a similar experience - stareted up, read, listened to everything about how technical it was and what not. Got in my head a little. Then I said screw it I was catching fish my way. I don't even use fly line, I use 30# monofilament and slang them flies like I am swatting at a yellow jacket about to sting me. It catches fish. And my 9 year old could probably out flyfish half of those expert casters.

In fly fishing there is a saying that pretty flies will catch anglers, but not fish. After checking rather meticulous notes on my first year of fly fishing I found that the trout near me, and in Utah, the one place I've fished abroad like dark, black and brown things under the water, and yellow or black small things on the top of the water. Much like in flyfishing, I think perfect form, bow, etc impresses archers, but does not matter if the arrow goes through the vitals on a deer, elk, moose, bear, squirrel, rabbit, etc. You know there is a perfect way to throw a ball too, But if you happen to watch any professional quarterback or pitcher... you get the idea.

Get it to be fun again.
As @Allegheny Tom mentioned effective distance will be reduced. Fortunately, I did not have to battle with that fact too much, because last year was my first ever season and all three deer I shot were at 15 yards or closer.

In a moment of panic about the upcoming season, I decided to go get my compound tuned up and then shoot it. I could hit the vitals on my 3D targets from the neighbors front yard, I did not do that, but I am sure I could. It was boring. Like autopilot. I found myself not even thinking about the archery shot just yanking and shooting. Not to say I won't use it and it's not a lethal weapon, I just think there is something fun about not being in autopilot/cruisecontrol

Just my two cents. I am sure, very certain in fact, that my buddies that use crossbows and 1000$ compounds will kill more animals than me this year. I am ok with that.
 
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