Consensus On Wind/Thermal Strategies For Saddle/Stand Setups (Ambush Strategy) For Big Bucks

[woodsdog2]

Over the years I've personally witnessed big deer use the absolute wrong wind or a tail wind numerous times. Day in and day out, early season, late season or rut, what is your basic wind and/or thermal strategy for setting up to kill big bucks consistently? I ask that because I saw more bucks this year using a tail wind more than not. Going back to bed, coming out to feed in the early season.... etc. I've also witnessed them doing it the right way and having opportunities with almost off (for me) winds. I want to know the self-analysis you big buck killers use each and every time you decide on a stand location. Then to make it even more realistic, what happens when you realize the wind is doing one thing and the thermals another? What do you do?? Please feel free to explain away.

 

[mike.podolan]

I am also very curious about this. I read something recently on an old thread over at the Hunting Beast where Dan (I’m almost positive it was him) mentioned that he noticed that bucks would often feed with the wind at their back, presumably to see out into the more open food source and have the wind at their back to smell any danger approaching from behind as they feed. Makes sense to me, but I don’t know about the route to get to the food.


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[GeoFish]

I know nothing. But Gene Wensel said, if the wind is in the bucks face he will travel in thicker cover. If the wind is at his back he will travel in more open cover and use his eyes.

 

[BTaylor]

@woodsdog2 just my 2 cents but I think you have to more specifically define "big buck". Are you talking about hunting a single deer that you have targeted or just consistently being able to shoot mature deer? Two significantly different ballgames imo.

 

[woodsdog2]

@woodsdog2 just my 2 cents but I think you have to more specifically define "big buck". Are you talking about hunting a single deer that you have targeted or just consistently being able to shoot mature deer? Two significantly different ballgames imo.

Good points. I guess both in each of the appropriate context.

 

[BTaylor]

Good points. I guess both in each of the appropriate context.

I have not proven to myself that I can consistently target a single buck and make him dead so I will mostly leave that for others to chime in on. I do have a buddy that does it on an annual basis though. He relies on cam intel a lot. For instance, the buck he killed last year would daylight at a particular stand on the first day the wind switch to north. Showed nearly everyday but almost entirely nocturnal other than the first day of north wind. It was a habit and it got him dead but it also clearly demonstrated that for that deer wind direction mattered as far as dayligthing at a certain location went.

I am more of a generalist as far a buck killing goes, I am looking foremost for a 4 or older deer, score is not nearly as important to me because odds are just generally low to run into a sure nuff big deer score wise where I do most of my hunting. I try to have a reasonable idea of where food and travel are on the public that I hunt the most because pretty much anywhere is good bedding cover. It is basically skillet flat so at best I can try to position so my wind is not going in the most likely travel lanes based general travel sign. On the private I hunt, it's rolling hill country and using terrain and thermals comes more into play but we also use cams a good bit so we have a good general idea of normal directions of travel and use wind direction and thermal influences more there.

 

[cville_bowhunter]

Not a big buck killer, but I was surprised to observe how often deer move with wind/thermal at their backs. I'm hunting in hilly, wooded terrain, and deer consistently moved in the same direction as the thermals. My hypothesis was that deer were doing this to get to a bedding position/feeding area that was advantageous for catching thermal updrafts/downdrafts until they switched again. Deer moved uphill just after sunrise when thermals began to pull consistently uphill and would come back downhill right as the sun was going down. I saw this with bucks and does of all ages.

This was the first year that I actually started to think about hunting for myself rather than just do what I had always been told was "right." I was always told that deer walk into the wind, so it was mind blowing to see them consistently do the opposite

 

[1simplemann]

I have not proven to myself that I can consistently target a single buck and make him dead so I will mostly leave that for others to chime in on. I do have a buddy that does it on an annual basis though. He relies on cam intel a lot. For instance, the buck he killed last year would daylight at a particular stand on the first day the wind switch to north. Showed nearly everyday but almost entirely nocturnal other than the first day of north wind. It was a habit and it got him dead but it also clearly demonstrated that for that deer wind direction mattered as far as dayligthing at a certain location went.

I am more of a generalist as far a buck killing goes, I am looking foremost for a 4 or older deer, score is not nearly as important to me because odds are just generally low to run into a sure nuff big deer score wise where I do most of my hunting. I try to have a reasonable idea of where food and travel are on the public that I hunt the most because pretty much anywhere is good bedding cover. It is basically skillet flat so at best I can try to position so my wind is not going in the most likely travel lanes based general travel sign. On the private I hunt, it's rolling hill country and using terrain and thermals comes more into play but we also use cams a good bit so we have a good general idea of normal directions of travel and use wind direction and thermal influences more there.

Was it the north wind? or was it the front that came w/ the north wind that got him on his feet early.? The idea that all big bucks only travel w/ the wind in their face is a misconception. If that theory was true then a big buck would only travel in one direction till the wind switched directions. We have primarily a SW wind here. It can stay that direction for days. My bucks would end up in CA if that were true. I've killed several big bucks here w/ a SW wind in the AM. The wind was almost directly at their backs. I have also witnessed many bucks traveling downwind looking for does. However They will circle a doe bedding area w/ the wind in their face and then move on the the next bedding area. Many times that will be w/ the wind at their backs. The key is that they have to feel safe.

 

[rhagenw]

I believe they use tail winds at times for they can smell behind them and have visual advantages out front. Also notice bedding with wind to back very often. The rut and high pressure throws a wrench in everything. Old school Dan DVDs explain a lot of well. Saying that it's only a piece of the puzzle.

 

[BigAl]

Someone mentioned Mr. Wensel......he states that older bucks travel alot with a wind on a rear quarter to see what's ahead while traveling along doe bedding areas to wind check for hot does. In my opinion.....cross winds in pinches near bedding is hard to beat...but that's not something easily pin pointed. Not every deer uses wind the same or perfectly of course. Mr. Wensel also states that the smarter deer learn to use wind the best....so being a student of wind and thermals will help us pick spots....the process learning is what some of us hunters are better than others!

 

[BTaylor]

Was it the north wind? or was it the front that came w/ the north wind that got him on his feet early.? The idea that all big bucks only travel w/ the wind in their face is a misconception. If that theory was true then a big buck would only travel in one direction till the wind switched directions. We have primarily a SW wind here. It can stay that direction for days. My bucks would end up in CA if that were true. I've killed several big bucks here w/ a SW wind in the AM. The wind was almost directly at their backs. I have also witnessed many bucks traveling downwind looking for does. However They will circle a doe bedding area w/ the wind in their face and then move on the the next bedding area. Many times that will be w/ the wind at their backs. The key is that they have to feel safe.

That particular deer would only daylight at that stand with north wind. That was the pattern for that particular deer. If the wind was another direction, he would still show up there it just wasnt in daylight. A lot of other bucks including a couple of really big mature deer would daylight there on seemingly any wind. Just a demonstration of how every mature buck has their own pattern and ways of moving in their core areas. Sometimes wind direction matters, sometimes it doesnt, depends on the particular deer.

 

[Jammintree]

I’m no expert here. But what ive seen suggests that it depends on the bucks intentions. Is it early October and they are focused on feeding? Pre rut and they are accessing doe location and competition? Rut and cruising for a hot doe? Gun season and avoiding heavy hunting pressure? Recovery and looking to disappear and vacuum up calories? I don’t think we can ever simply say: bucks do this and that. But if you really want some insight, follow a fresh buck track in snow. While you can’t always know what their objectives are or what they are reacting to, you can experience for yourself just how much their use of wind varies over the course of a couple miles.

The other question I’d ask is: where along their travel path are you setting up? Are you hunting bedding, food, a travel corridor, perhaps a geological funnel that forces them to betray normal wind patterns, or maybe you’re set up on an escape route?

Sometimes a buck is just going to take the fastest route from point A to B, regardless of wind.

We all know about the classic J hook technique deer use for approaching a destination. During the hook they get wind blowing at their body from all angles. There’s somewhere on that hook you can be without getting winded.

I’d also surmise that regional factors are huge: are there wolves in your area? Just how much hunting pressure is there?

Point being, I think there are so many variables and regional variations that it’s almost misleading to talk about the “how” on a nationwide forum.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

I don’t think the deer care about the wind until they need to. In other words, they have a place they wanna go and a route they start on. If they can use the wind on that route they will use it regardless of direction, but may alter their travel as they gain intel from the wind. I don’t believe they necessarily base their movement on the wind primarily, but deal with the wind as they do any other feature (topography, stem count, etc.) to inform their movements in real time.
I’ve only killed one big buck, but I sure saw quite a few more this year than ever before, and had many sits where deer came from multiple directions at once. I try to always be down- or crosswind from suspected travel, but didn’t notice a particular correlation between wind direction and a deer’s chosen route of approach, but more what they would choose to do when the wind hit them from that chosen approach.

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

I used to think that big bucks wouldn't with the wind at their backs. Not sure where I picked that up. Took me years of observing the opposite to get it in my head that they don't. I think sometimes they will move at different places because they bed at different places based on the wind direction. Meaning they will be at a different place moving a different direction to get from food to bed on different winds. That is something entirely different than them only moving a direction based on the wind direction. Sometimes this will make them look really smart because it all lines up to make them all but impossible to hunt on certain days. With that being said that only applies to normal bedding and feeding. I agree with @Jammintree it is dependant on so many factors it's hard to make any good generalizations on what they are going to do.

 

[1simplemann]

That particular deer would only daylight at that stand with north wind. That was the pattern for that particular deer. If the wind was another direction, he would still show up there it just wasnt in daylight. A lot of other bucks including a couple of really big mature deer would daylight there on seemingly any wind. Just a demonstration of how every mature buck has their own pattern and ways of moving in their core areas. Sometimes wind direction matters, sometimes it doesnt, depends on the particular deer.

I can't speak for your area or that particular deer but here in MT when we have a N wind it means a Front is coming through. As we all know, when a front is coming through then you better be in a tree cause deer are usually on the move earlier. When we get a front and the accompanying N wind, Our fields stack up w/ deer 2 hours before dark instead of the usual last hour. That would explain why he got him. He was bedded further away from your buddy's tree and didn't get there in time on a regular wind cause he held tight. That means he was a smart buck. Some are smarter than others and just won't move until weather gets them on their feet. Anyway, a Front comes through, he get's up earlier, travels further, and gets whacked. That's a Classic situation of why so many big deer get killed. Ask your buddy if the wind was at the buck's back, in his face or a crosswind when he killed him. then ask him what the was the wind direction when he showed up in the dark. I've seen them move w/ it in all different directions so it's hard to pin them down exactly which wind direction they prefer. I have some spots that are VERY wind direction and time oriented for you to kill them. N wind in the AM. Nope. N wind in PM. Game on. or just the opposite , SW in the evening. Nope. SW in the AM. Keep your bow in you hand cuz it's gonna be good! Something about those locations is just right for that particular tree, that particular day, at that particular time, on that particular wind. The trick is to figure out what it is that triggers that. With that said, I really stunk at figuring that out this year. It seemed like I was a step behind them most of the time.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

I used to think that big bucks wouldn't with the wind at their backs. Not sure where I picked that up. Took me years of observing the opposite to get it in my head that they don't. I think sometimes they will move at different places because they bed at different places based on the wind direction. Meaning they will be at a different place moving a different direction to get from food to bed on different winds. That is something entirely different than them only moving a direction based on the wind direction. Sometimes this will make them look really smart because it all lines up to make them all but impossible to hunt on certain days. With that being said that only applies to normal bedding and feeding. I agree with @Jammintree it is dependant on so many factors it's hard to make any good generalizations on what they are going to do.

Bedding/feeding are two activities that I would agree they actually consider the wind before deciding on a spot to do said activities. This is helpful in guessing where deer are possibly coming from or might end up. But moving, browsing, socializing, I don’t think they care until they need to.

 

[1simplemann]

I used to think that big bucks wouldn't with the wind at their backs. Not sure where I picked that up. Took me years of observing the opposite to get it in my head that they don't. I think sometimes they will move at different places because they bed at different places based on the wind direction. Meaning they will be at a different place moving a different direction to get from food to bed on different winds. That is something entirely different than them only moving a direction based on the wind direction. Sometimes this will make them look really smart because it all lines up to make them all but impossible to hunt on certain days. With that being said that only applies to normal bedding and feeding. I agree with @Jammintree it is dependant on so many factors it's hard to make any good generalizations on what they are going to do.

You got it from the magazines and the "big name" hunters. They preached that crap all the time. That really screwed me up for years. Then I saw different in the woods. They move in all directions or least in an agriculture setting they do. The key is to find that chink their armor that allows you to get close enough to kill em' w/ a bow on that particular wind direction. I'm Not sure about a big woods setting but In agriculture, They have their preferred feeding areas and preferred bedding areas and use them daily. When The wind switches direction, they don't leave cuz they can't. It's their home. They will still continue to use them. They still have to eat and they still have to use security cover every day regardless of wind direction. I've never seen them ONLY move on a particular wind direction. That's a myth.

 

[woodsdog2]

I recently listened to one of the Before The Echo Video podcasts with Dan Infalt and Josh Tuelker. Someone asked a similar question as mine and they both believe that going to food, deer don’t regard the wind. It’s going to bed where they j hook or get downwind of where they plan to bed. They both said they just make sure the wind is right for them when setting up. So downwind or crosswind of suspected travel or just off wind. Now some people beleive the bigger bucks will not go to a food source unless the can smell it first and will work along the edge where they can scent check it first. I don’t agree with that as I’ve seen it happen both ways.

 

[BTaylor]

I can't speak for your area or that particular deer but here in MT when we have a N wind it means a Front is coming through. As we all know, when a front is coming through then you better be in a tree cause deer are usually on the move earlier. When we get a front and the accompanying N wind, Our fields stack up w/ deer 2 hours before dark instead of the usual last hour. That would explain why he got him. He was bedded further away from your buddy's tree and didn't get there in time on a regular wind cause he held tight. That means he was a smart buck. Some are smarter than others and just won't move until weather gets them on their feet. Anyway, a Front comes through, he get's up earlier, travels further, and gets whacked. That's a Classic situation of why so many big deer get killed. Ask your buddy if the wind was at the buck's back, in his face or a crosswind when he killed him. then ask him what the was the wind direction when he showed up in the dark. I've seen them move w/ it in all different directions so it's hard to pin them down exactly which wind direction they prefer. I have some spots that are VERY wind direction and time oriented for you to kill them. N wind in the AM. Nope. N wind in PM. Game on. or just the opposite , SW in the evening. Nope. SW in the AM. Keep your bow in you hand cuz it's gonna be good! Something about those locations is just right for that particular tree, that particular day, at that particular time, on that particular wind. The trick is to figure out what it is that triggers that. With that said, I really stunk at figuring that out this year. It seemed like I was a step behind them most of the time.

To be clear I am not disagreeing with anything you posted this deer was just different than all the rest where he was hunting. The deer was bedding in the 125-150 yard range and daylighted there coming in with the wind in his face. On a north wind he always used the same trail in and the stand was set where the wind was only 5-10 degrees from being dead wrong. He got there late on other winds because he would circle before coming in. Three years of cam data for that deer and he was as consistent as the sun coming up in the east. If there was five days in a row of north wind he daylighted all of them as soon as it changed he would be after dark arriving. The way that particular spot lays with where the bedding is and fields are it is conducive for that type movement. For sure not nearly every buck does that and I also think terrain plays a role too for some bucks. This scenario though is specific to targeting a single deer rather than just being in position to kill a mature deer. There have been multiple big deer killed from that tree taking advantage of that specific bedding area and he was the only one to date with such a consistent travel pattern based on wind. Others have moved much more along the lines of what you described with a front, temp drop, etc that got them up on their feet. And don’t feel alone with the being behind em or just off this year. I got it handed to me as well. Had 6 mature bucks 60 yards or closer and never put tension on the string. Just couldn’t get dialed all the way in on much of anything this year. It happens but I don’t like it.


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[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Now some people beleive the bigger bucks will not go to a food source unless the can smell it first and will work along the edge where they can scent check it first. I don’t agree with that as I’ve seen it happen both ways.

I’ve seen both as well. Inconclusive for me but I do know that big bucks seem to blast into view on a field edge right where the does came out, so maybe there’s some edge scent-checking going on to get on the nearest hot doe trail. I also saw a buck bed within 50 yards of my tree on the downwind of a field full of does and bucks, then once the fielded deer worked into the woods he sprang into action and separated the does from the subordinate bucks. I was just off-wind if him and downwind of field, and he was down/off from me while being directly downwind of field. Eyes peeking crosswind and just chillin’ while he waited for a date. Just some observations from a pinch point stand with high visibility, between two large soybean fields, and another alfalfa field near my house…