Continous Loop Question - Amsteel

[jhunter13]

I was going to attempt making a few amsteel continuous loops to attach to my saddle to make an adjustable bridge. This is the video I am using:

When I follow this method, it doesnt make a "locked brummel" as the loop expands when pulled. I understand that burying the ends is what actually holds the brummel locked.

Wondering if anyone just tried a locked brummel like we use on daisy chains and bury the ends back into the loop?

Pics attached of my brummel, fingers are on the loop sides.

 

[Squirrels]

He burries the tag ends in the wrong direction in the video.

 

[Old squirrel]

You have your locks wrong, when you pull on loop it should stop not pull apart.

 

[Old squirrel]

Its exactly backwards when you pull on tag ends yours is locking.

 

[drew13]

He burries the tag ends in the wrong direction in the video.

Do you mean that by burying in this direction he is not creating a locked Brummell but is instead just making a loop splice that relies on the friction of the bury to keep it from coming open? Can you clarify? Also, if you have a long enough bury does it matter?

Thanks. Looking to learn...

 

[Old squirrel]

A locked bummer is locked without burying ends. If he tied tag ends together he would have a locked brummel on that loop. Hard to explain, tons of videos on YouTube. Be safe!!!

 

[Old squirrel]

I think Greg on tetherd has some good vids.

 

[jhunter13]

A locked bummer is locked without burying ends. If he tied tag ends together he would have a locked brummel on that loop. Hard to explain, tons of videos on YouTube. Be safe!!!

This is why I asked the question. A contious loop (all videos Ive found) is predicated on the friction of the bury holding the brummel (which they call locked, but its in fact not locked). I can splice a locked brummel and just bury the tag ends back into the loop no problem. I was wondering what others were doing. Buttom line - I don't like the idea of the bury being what holds my loop together.

 

[drew13]

This is why I asked the question. A contious loop (all videos Ive found) is predicated on the friction of the bury holding the brummel (which they call locked, but its in fact not locked). I can splice a locked brummel and just bury the tag ends back into the loop no problem. I was wondering what others were doing. Buttom line - I don't like the idea of the bury being what holds my loop together.

This guy is doing a locked Brummell continuous loop, I believe:

 

[jhunter13]

This guy is doing a locked Brummell continuous loop, I believe:

Awesome. That answers question. Thanks

 

[Squirrels]

Do you mean that by burying in this direction he is not creating a locked Brummell but is instead just making a loop splice that relies on the friction of the bury to keep it from coming open? Can you clarify? Also, if you have a long enough bury does it matter?

Thanks. Looking to learn...

The video of what you posted is how I do mine and what I was referring to. I did a poor job conveying that in my statement.

 

[raisins]

I was perplexed by this, but several show the method that OP started (where you aren't doing a locked brummel first) and I've done it that way and if your bury is long it holds fine (finger trap design when under weight).

Here's a video showing OP's orientation (although he didn't bury).

Then there are methods that do a locked brummel first.

And compared

I tried to look up Samson resource, but couldn't find a guide, though they do have some amsteel splicing resources.

I don't think this is clear cut and I only know enough to say that, and there is obviously not just one answer.

If I were to do this, I would do a straight splice and then sew through the bury with some zing it (dyneema thread, sewing a splice like this is shown in a Tethrd DIY video on bridge making and they quote Samson on this as recommended method). But in the end, I would never use splice amsteel as life support. I feel that a brummel lock might only be as strong as either side where the split occurs, cutting strength in half (and it is bent 180 back on itself, which weakens it further). Brummel locks to make daisy chains are only used by saddlehunters, hammock guys, and a sailor that was killed by one (no joke). I did use a brummel lock to break a tree recently, but I only use them for sticks/steps/platform and not direct life support (tether, saddle, lineman's).

 

[jhunter13]

I was perplexed by this, but several show the method that OP started (where you aren't doing a locked brummel first) and I've done it that way and if you bury is long is holds fine.

Here's a video showing OP's orientation (although he didn't bury).

Then there are methods that do a locked brummel first.

And compared

I tried to look up Samson resource, but couldn't find a guide, though they do have some amsteel splicing resources.

I don't think this is clear cut and I only know enough to say that, and there is obviously not just one answer.

If I were to do this, I would do a straight splice and then sew through the bury with some zing it (dyneema thread). But in the end, I would never use splice amsteel as life support. I feel that a brummel lock might only be as strong as either side where the split occurs, cutting strength in half. Brummel locks to make daisy chains are only used by saddlehunters, hammock guys, and a sailor that was killed by one (no joke). I did use a brummel lock to break a tree recently, but I only use them for sticks/steps/platform and not direct life support (tether, saddle, lineman's).

I dont plan on using for life support - was using it to test for lengths to order some sewn 6mm loops. During the process I posted the question.

Thanks for adding to the discussion

 

[raisins]

I dont plan on using for life support - was using it to test for lengths to order some sewn 6mm loops. During the process I posted the question.

Thanks for adding to the discussion

Yep, and good. Sorry if I missed that. There is no authoritative guide on this. There is no climbing knot manual like how you tie a figure 8 and everyone agrees. There's no certified course in this.

So, I just wanted to make clear that we are all somewhat just telling you what some guys on the internet said or what we tried and seemed to work.

 

[raisins]

This is why I asked the question. A contious loop (all videos Ive found) is predicated on the friction of the bury holding the brummel (which they call locked, but its in fact not locked). I can splice a locked brummel and just bury the tag ends back into the loop no problem. I was wondering what others were doing. Buttom line - I don't like the idea of the bury being what holds my loop together.

Starts at 16 minutes in roughly

securing the splice type you are concerned with using lock stitches. It is making an end loop instead, but the concept is exactly the same that you are facing.

Greg references Samson here.

First hit is Samson but haven't read it, see search below for additional resources.

amsteel lock stitch - Google Search

 

[vbryan00]

The ones I made hold well, don't remember where I found out how. But I burried the ends to where they are almost touching in the loop. Aldo don't forget to taper the burried ends.

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[Brocky]

If there is room to do a full length bury each way the lock brummel would add some security from it pulling apart, so would stitches, but it would also be weaker by 5-10%. The splice can equal the breaking strength of the rope with a 72 diameter bury each way.

 

[vbryan00]

I had more than enough extra amsteel, so I had to cut some off so it wouldn't be too long. Of course that's after you have weaved (don't remember the technical term) the amsteel through twice.

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