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Cruzr xc reinforced

Benb

New Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
28
So I just learned a bit about sewing from my mother in law today. I am thinking of reinforcing the top and bottom of my saddle to the seat part for fun. I know there will be dogmatic dudes who preach "trust your gear" but while my newborn is asleep, I want to reinforce for fun.. Anyone else do this unnecessary but fun "improvements"?
 
I haven't. I have a Cruzr XC though and first thing I did was put a 1.5 inch (I think, better measure first) rated Cobra buckle with dual adjusts on it and then put Suncor stainless triglides (that are way stronger than what comes on it) on both tag ends. I also changed out the bridge. I would have changed the leg buckles, but it was going to be too tedious.

The webbing and stitching of the Cruzr XC are great, and not what I would reinforce. The rest of the saddle is kind of cheap (belt webbing is too thin, all buckles are crap, bridge is barely passable for me).

Those buckles are knockoffs from either ebay or alibaba and the ratings on them are not legitimate and are just something the Chinese company that makes them put on them to look legit.

Woods Hunting Saddles makes an amsteel replacement bridge that is better. Or you can make one with rope on your own, it's not that hard.
 
I do know that you can sew material too much, creating an unnecessarily high stitch count resulting in a weaker end product. IMO “trust your gear” and “trust the professionals who sewed the saddle to begin with” are two different things. Lot’s of things go into stitching a strong saddle, be ashamed if you made it weaker just for fun and something happened. But I’m no expert. There are experts on here, I’m sure they will chime in. Good Luck!
 
I haven't. I have a Cruzr XC though and first thing I did was put a 1.5 inch (I think, better measure first) rated Cobra buckle with dual adjusts on it and then put Suncor stainless triglides (that are way stronger than what comes on it) on both tag ends. I also changed out the bridge. I would have changed the leg buckles, but it was going to be too tedious.

The webbing and stitching of the Cruzr XC are great, and not what I would reinforce. The rest of the saddle is kind of cheap (belt webbing is too thin, all buckles are crap, bridge is barely passable for me).

Those buckles are knockoffs from either ebay or alibaba and the ratings on them are not legitimate and are just something the Chinese company that makes them put on them to look legit.

Woods Hunting Saddles makes an amsteel replacement bridge that is better. Or you can make one with rope on your own, it's not that hard.
There are a couple of guys on YouTube that are constantly pulling climbing gear to failure, they do lots of biners. So they pulled to failure a bunch of “knockoff” Chinese stuff that they put numbers on to “look legit” that they got off of Amazon. Here’s the results. The first highlighted box has the advertised breaking strength and the second is where it failed.1671314751586.jpeg
 
There are a couple of guys on YouTube that are constantly pulling climbing gear to failure, they do lots of biners. So they pulled to failure a bunch of “knockoff” Chinese stuff that they put numbers on to “look legit” that they got off of Amazon. Here’s the results. The first highlighted box has the advertised breaking strength and the second is where it failed.View attachment 78310


Well, trusting anything ChiCom that doesn't have intense scrutiny from someone more trustworthy is probably not a good idea.

If you've held a Cobra buckle and those knockoffs that I spoke of, you would know that the Cobras have to be much stronger. And it's no surprise that the knockoffs have the same ratings stamped on them as the Cobras that they are trying to copy.

I'm guessing those Chinese carabiners look and feel like one from a maker that is trustworthy.

But we'll never know until we test them. And a single pull really doesn't speak to overall quality control. I'd like to see 100 Chinese carabiners tested and 100 name brand ones also.
 
There are a couple of guys on YouTube that are constantly pulling climbing gear to failure, they do lots of biners. So they pulled to failure a bunch of “knockoff” Chinese stuff that they put numbers on to “look legit” that they got off of Amazon. Here’s the results. The first highlighted box has the advertised breaking strength and the second is where it failed.View attachment 78310
He wasn’t referring to carabiners where the Chinese factories that make knock offs also produce many of the name brands (such as black diamond, metolius, and many others). He was referring to the knock off cobra belt buckles which aren’t UIAA or even EN certified. Carabiner shape can influence strength of the carabiner as well as the thickness of the aluminum. On the imitation side release buckles the “ratings” have no verifiable reference number and the factories do not white label (make them) for Austrialpin or ADF or ISC as they are all manufactured in house and all require you to sign agreements that you won’t sell your product that uses their buckles to Asian markets for them to emulate
 
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He wasn’t referring to carabiners where the Chinese factories that make knock offs also produce many of the name brands (such as black diamond, metolius, and many others). He was referring to the knock off cobra belt buckles which aren’t UIAA or even EN certified. Carabiner shape can influence strength of the carabiner as well as the thickness of the aluminum. On the imitation side release buckles the “ratings” have no verifiable reference number and the factories do not white label (make them) for Austrialpin or ADF or IMC as they are all manufactured in house and all require you to sign agreements that you won’t sell your product that uses their buckles to Asian markets for them to emulate
So you agree with OP statement that Cruzer uses buckles that “….are knockoffs from either ebay or alibaba and the ratings on them are not legitimate and are just something the Chinese company that makes them put on them to look legit.”
 
So you agree with OP statement that Cruzer uses buckles that “….are knockoffs from either ebay or alibaba and the ratings on them are not legitimate and are just something the Chinese company that makes them put on them to look legit.”

It seems my certainty bothers you. I must admit I'm not 100% certain on anything.

I am certain enough that those Alibaba buckles appear inferior to a Cobra buckle to use that as a guide for any safety related decision. Also, I know that anyone that makes a knockoff is acting in an untrustworthy way from the start. So, it makes no sense to trust them. If you met someone that made fake Rolexs at home, then you'd be foolish to trust them more with 50 bucks than a guy you know that makes a product of their own design.
 
I offered an example where people often make similar, broad and over reaching comments about a product with no data, that was proven with data to be wrong. My biggest concern is that there are thousands of hunters using Cruzr products everyday and you are stating that they are using buckles procured from Alibaba, that they are unsafe, therefore their saddles are unsafe. I mean, that is what you are saying…yes? I use a Cruzr saddle and if what you are saying is correct, then shouldn’t I be concerned?
 
I offered an example where people often make similar, broad and over reaching comments about a product with no data, that was proven with data to be wrong. My biggest concern is that there are thousands of hunters using Cruzr products everyday and you are stating that they are using buckles procured from Alibaba, that they are unsafe, therefore their saddles are unsafe. I mean, that is what you are saying…yes? I use a Cruzr saddle and if what you are saying is correct, then shouldn’t I be concerned?
Were you around a few years back when those buckles were first being questioned here?

Most hunters never fall in a way where their buckle is needed to withstand force and keep them in place. The parts they rely upon usually, the webbing and stitching, are all fine and done by good folks in the USA and webbing and stitching aren't as prone to unforeseeable failures as are metals and plastics. I fully trust the Cruzr XC as is from the factory to be safe if nothing bad were to happen. I do not trust the buckles to do what they say (but the buckles are rarely needed to be strong), but I do trust Cobras because there are independent tests of them and they have an actual company name to defend/keep up.

As far as broad and over reaching comments about Chinese knockoff goods as used in safety applications.....I'll stand by that as a generalization (generalizations aren't disproved by a single counterexample unless you state "all" or some such)....just like I'll stand by my previous views on gas station sushi.
 
I offered an example where people often make similar, broad and over reaching comments about a product with no data, that was proven with data to be wrong. My biggest concern is that there are thousands of hunters using Cruzr products everyday and you are stating that they are using buckles procured from Alibaba, that they are unsafe, therefore their saddles are unsafe. I mean, that is what you are saying…yes? I use a Cruzr saddle and if what you are saying is correct, then shouldn’t I be concerned?
Or shouldn't Cruzr then be concerned?
 
@raisins No I missed that conversation. So there was a conversation and someone conducted some tests and the buckles proven to be unsafe? But I do appreciate the clarification: Cruzr is safe as long as nothing bad happens. I feel much better now Lol.
 
No I missed that conversation. So there was a conversation and someone conducted some tests and the buckles proven to be unsafe? But I do appreciate the clarification: Cruzr is safe as long as nothing bad happens. I feel much better now Lol.
Well, at this point, I think you're mostly amusing yourself with trolling me via verbal judo.

It isn't up to someone to prove a buckle to be unsafe. It is up to the advocate of a buckle to prove that it is safe. Any question along with lack of availability of third party testing is enough for most people to consider it not proven safe. Why use that when you can use something of known source and that has been tested and used widely in demanding environments?
 
So you agree with OP statement that Cruzer uses buckles that “….are knockoffs from either ebay or alibaba and the ratings on them are not legitimate and are just something the Chinese company that makes them put on them to look legit.”
On the old school Cruzr they were using the knock offs, at least on the XC I own. I believe they are using real austrialpin buckles on the waist belts now. The leg buckles are still the knock offs I believe but since leg straps aren’t usually weight rated, I don’t think that it matters.
For what it’s worth, several companies were using the same waist buckles because you can have them printed with your company name on them. I’ll take a picture of the difference and post it for you in a few.
 
On the old school Cruzr they were using the knock offs, at least on the XC I own. I believe they are using real austrialpin buckles on the waist belts now. The leg buckles are still the knock offs I believe but since leg straps aren’t usually weight rated, I don’t think that it matters.
For what it’s worth, several companies were using the same waist buckles because you can have them printed with your company name on them. I’ll take a picture of the difference and post it for you in a few.

They had the Cobra as an option for a while. The option is gone on their site. I called Cruzr and asked and they said they were not using Cobras now. I also read someone else say that they are back to the original buckles. But I'm not 100 percent on it.
 
@raisins No I missed that conversation. So there was a conversation and someone conducted some tests and the buckles proven to be unsafe? But I do appreciate the clarification: Cruzr is safe as long as nothing bad happens. I feel much better now Lol.
As far as being concerned, I don’t think you should be concerned. The only time the waist belt would see actual force exerted would be a lineman loop fall, or a face first fall. Even then, the force probably wouldn’t be more than the knock off buckles could handle in my opinion. I was simply stating the difference between a true austrialpin cobra buckle, an ADF raptor buckle or an ISC buckle and a Chinese knock off, is pretty significant when you look at them close up.
 
Well, at this point, I think you're mostly amusing yourself with trolling me via verbal judo.

It isn't up to someone to prove a buckle to be unsafe. It is up to the advocate of a buckle to prove that it is safe. Any question along with lack of availability of third party testing is enough for most people to consider it not proven safe. Why use that when you can use something of known source and that has been tested and used widely in demanding environments?
Yeah, I’m not looking for pissing match. I‘m only repeating what you are saying and I would suggest that since you are the one that made the claim that they are unsafe, it would be up to you to provide the data to back that statement up. But I digress and will leave it there. You can have the last word if you so desire.
 
@raisins No I missed that conversation. So there was a conversation and someone conducted some tests and the buckles proven to be unsafe? But I do appreciate the clarification: Cruzr is safe as long as nothing bad happens. I feel much better now Lol.
I will not say they aren’t safe. I think the XC is a great saddle. All I am saying is there is a noticeable difference in the buckle designs. Even within ADF raptor vs Austrialpin, there is a difference in build quality. Below are pics of the buckle on the XC, an ADF raptor, and a Austriaplin cobra buckle. Things to note are the shape and thickness of the ears on the male ends, the design of the slider locking bar on the male end, the size of the rivets holding in the brass ears on the female end and the fact that you can’t release the cobra buckle from a single ear or while under load. Weight wise the ADF is the heaviest because of its two piece cast aluminum design that is held by rivets. The knock off buckle has a two piece river design on the male end slider lock. It also releases with one ear depressed, however it weighs the same as a cobra pro. The cobra buckle is single piece milled aluminum design with larger lock teeth and a beefier slider bar. It also has the largest rivets on the brass teeth.
16156D28-83D6-48EA-9CB5-73377CA16956.jpeg
 
Also for reference, here is that same buckle next to an $8 tatical belt I got from Etsy5601520D-1930-48D3-9535-273B837C672F.jpeg
The waist belt is designed to keep you attached to the saddle, not to take direct weight in a fall so like I said, I wouldn’t be concerned. To the original post, I also wouldn’t modify the stitch count either. There are so many variables when sewing into that thick milspec webbing they use. Thread size and type, needle size, needle shape, stitches per inch… you aren’t sure of any of those so going back over the stitches for fun could damage the original threads, could weaken your webbing as mentioned above AND are you even sure you have a machine capable of stitching even thread tension through these materials? The XC uses a thick nylon, not a thin seat belt for the main chassis, I can tell you first hand it requires a real machine to put T138 thread through webbing that thick and also have good thread tension across the bottom. Why chance weakening your perfectly good saddle for fun? Instead go onto strapworks and order you some webbing, go to rocky woods and get some mesh, then practice sewing those materials as a DIY build like many of us who started. Obviously use it at ground level. It’ll give you a great appreciation for how well made that Cruzr is and how much one costs
 
I will not say they aren’t safe. I think the XC is a great saddle. All I am saying is there is a noticeable difference in the buckle designs. Even within ADF raptor vs Austrialpin, there is a difference in build quality. Below are pics of the buckle on the XC, an ADF raptor, and a Austriaplin cobra buckle. Things to note are the shape and thickness of the ears on the male ends, the design of the slider locking bar on the male end, the size of the rivets holding in the brass ears on the female end and the fact that you can’t release the cobra buckle from a single ear or while under load. Weight wise the ADF is the heaviest because of its two piece cast aluminum design that is held by rivets. The knock off buckle has a two piece river design on the male end slider lock. It also releases with one ear depressed, however it weighs the same as a cobra pro. The cobra buckle is single piece milled aluminum design with larger lock teeth and a beefier slider bar. It also has the largest rivets on the brass teeth.
View attachment 78324
No doubt. And I think that you would agree that there’s a difference between being ”different” and being unsafe. I will also admit that I am not an engineer and that I can’t tell the inherent strength of one design over another just by looking at it. I do however, find it really hard to believe that Cruzr buys their buckles off of Alibaba or EBay. I also find it hard to believe that Cruzr puts a buckle on their saddle that has not been tested to the ratings stamped on the buckle. That would be akin to fraud and I personally don’t think Cruzr is that type of company.
 
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