Do You Use Your Rappel Rope w/ Madrock As Tether or A Separate Tether?

[phatkaw]

It sounds like they're clipping to their waist belt. (I could let them speak for themselves) lol

 

[HuumanCreed]

So where are you guys attaching the rappel rope (i.e. secondary tether at that point) to your saddle? I assume you have your main tether with prusik to a carabiner on your bridge (standard setup). Do you then have a prusik on your rappel rope to the same carabiner on the bridge? Or maybe I’m misunderstanding.

Yup. Our waist belts double as a safety harness. Use a strong webbing and a Cobra buckle that has stronger Kn rating then even the actual saddle. Once I'm ready to go down, I transfer rappel line to saddle, remove main tether, pretty simple.

 

[philsanchez76]

Yup. Our waist belts double as a safety harness. Use a strong webbing and a Cobra buckle that has stronger Kn rating then even the actual saddle. Once I'm ready to go down, I transfer rappel line to saddle, remove main tether, pretty simple.

Ditto

 

[MNFarmHunter]

So where are you guys attaching the rappel rope (i.e. secondary tether at that point) to your saddle? I assume you have your main tether with prusik to a carabiner on your bridge (standard setup). Do you then have a prusik on your rappel rope to the same carabiner on the bridge? Or maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I only run one bridge so both would connect to it. When climbing/hunting, I'm on my tether. Once time to rappel, I connect my belay device to the same bridge and cinch it up until my weight transfers to the rappel line. Once the tether is loose, I disconnect from that, pack up and rappel down. In short, I'm never not connected via the bridge.

 

[Schemeecho]

Would love to know your thought process on your rappel method.


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I can agree with @phatkaw , I have tried the way he rappels. Like he says it's supper simple. Honestly the way he does it saves me $100.00 on a mechanical rappel device. Just an fyi if youre wondering if its safe. yes it is. I have never rappelled before and when it did it the way he showed. I never once felt unsafe.

 

[MNFarmHunter]

8's are great and plan on using one for my 2TC/stick rappel line and leave the Madrock for my SRT. Just remember though that working with them during the day wearing shorts and t-shirts are very different when it's dark, cold and wearing gloves. Rain, snow and ice will also change the friction on the rope.

As with most things, know your equipment and know ways to overcome problems that will occur.

 

[fortej1]

The best explanation I've seen is that having a backup is safer. I can't really argue with that, if the same safety-minded effort goes into making sure you're not ever un-tied while switching between them.

Other than a lineman belt, I don't use separate ropes - just learn how to tie off under the madrock in case it slips (mine never has - on smaller-than-recommended rope, with a bigger-than-recommended idiot attached).

Do you mind sharing how you "tie off under the madrock in case it slips?" I really want to climb AND rappel with one rope but looking for just a tad bit more safety and it seems this would be a good solution. I'm using a Birdie, but I'm assuming your backup will work the same.

 

[sdoyle1]

Do you mind sharing how you "tie off under the madrock in case it slips?" I really want to climb AND rappel with one rope but looking for just a tad bit more safety and it seems this would be a good solution. I'm using a Birdie, but I'm assuming your backup will work the same.

I’ve tied an alpine butterfly below my safeguard and then clipped it to my linemans loop as a backup.


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[Brocky]

Overhand on a bight is another option, if the rope is flexible enough to hold a knot the carabiner wouldn’t be needed for temporary use, more for extended stays, or stiffer rope.

 

[JBDaddy]

Do you mind sharing how you "tie off under the madrock in case it slips?" I really want to climb AND rappel with one rope but looking for just a tad bit more safety and it seems this would be a good solution. I'm using a Birdie, but I'm assuming your backup will work the same.

About like this:

In my head, and in my experience, I don't expect the safeguard to slip unless I'm really pulling that handle... but in my wife's head, I'm dangling from dental floss and a clothespin. So to reassure both of us, I pass the slack end of my rope through my carabiner and make a loop, then pass more slack through that loop and cinch it down on the spine side of the carabiner, then tie an overhand _above_ the safeguard.

I don't think it's "really" necessary, but then even if the safeguard somehow exploded and came off the rope entirely, my backup is still through the carabiner and I don't go anywhere. In that case, I'd _probably_ still have a platform or stick to stand on and take some weight off the rope, and I have a backup ATC and hollowblock in my bag I can use to get down... but that's mostly to reassure my wife. Have tried it once or twice for giggles, do not want to ever do it.

 

[HuumanCreed]

About like this:

In my head, and in my experience, I don't expect the safeguard to slip unless I'm really pulling that handle... but in my wife's head, I'm dangling from dental floss and a clothespin. So to reassure both of us, I pass the slack end of my rope through my carabiner and make a loop, then pass more slack through that loop and cinch it down on the spine side of the carabiner, then tie an overhand _above_ the safeguard.

I don't think it's "really" necessary, but then even if the safeguard somehow exploded and came off the rope entirely, my backup is still through the carabiner and I don't go anywhere. In that case, I'd _probably_ still have a platform or stick to stand on and take some weight off the rope, and I have a backup ATC and hollowblock in my bag I can use to get down... but that's mostly to reassure my wife. Have tried it once or twice for giggles, do not want to ever do it.

Sadly, its my wife's lack of faith in me rather then the equipment that make me double up everything for safety reasons. She requires me to show her everything I am planning to do as part of the agreement we have and have a back up for everything.

To be honest, not saying she doesn't have reasonable causes due to some history of failures when I DIY stuff or try new things. First time I show her my rappelling, I had to go back up 3 times because I forgot to clip in retrieval rope, remove stopper knot, AND put away hand ascender.

 

[gcr0003]

Sadly, its my wife's lack of faith in me rather then the equipment that make me double up everything for safety reasons. She requires me to show her everything I am planning to do as part of the agreement we have and have a back up for everything.

To be honest, not saying she doesn't have reasonable causes due to some history of failures when I DIY stuff or try new things. First time I show her my rappelling, I had to go back up 3 times because I forgot to clip in retrieval rope, remove stopper knot, AND put away hand ascender.

With that kind of track record you may want to just ground hunt

 

[HuumanCreed]

With that kind of track record you may want to just ground hunt

No argument there. Except I like being in the tree. And I need to justify all these gears that I collected to wife.

A successful ground hunt is on the bucket list once I'm more confident. Also with an Elk trip west.

 

[2Sloe]

And i think the shock load thing is kinda over talked about in the saddle world . I've seen rock climbers purposely jump off the wall with like 20ft of slack before just to show how there gear works .

Ever seen one of those same rock climbers take a 3 foot drop on a static anchor? I bet not. Climbers use dynamic rope that stretches, the more rope, the better, because you have more rope to stretch and slowly absorb the fall. Almost no saddle hunter is using dynamic rope and it wouldn’t matter anyway, when you fall a foot or two there’s not enough rope to provide enough stretch to make any difference. Take a 1 foot piece of 550 cord and stretch it, then do the same with 20 feet. Rock Climbing harness is designed for fall arrest, a saddle is designed for positioning. Don’t fool yourself. You will definitely feel a 1 foot drop on a saddle rope, more and you are going to feel it for a while if you manage to avoid getting seriously hurt. Good Luck and Be Safe!

 

[2Sloe]

I’m new to one sticking and rappelling so just my .02¢ but using a typical tether rope while one sticking I already get the tail caught frequently on my stick steps as I’m climbing, even after trying to roll up the end and holding it together with a gear tie. It’s annoying enough I’m about ready to buy a new shorty tether just for climbing. I have thought already about the practicality and weight savings of just using one rope for tether and rappel but I think it’d constantly be in the way hanging down the tree while climbing. Unless you could somehow keep the tail coiled up neatly and out the way in a pouch. It’s certainly possible, I just haven’t figured out a way to do it conveniently.

I started using my Madrock and my rappel rope, with the whole line hanging below me, I soon noticed that the weight of the line tended to pull the Madrock down the rope as I climbed not to mention having that big ole madrock banging on my stick as I ascended my aider. So I evolved, I coiled all of my rope except the last 10 feet with the delta quick link on the end, I double the coiled rope over and stick it in my sys hauler, then I coil the last 10 feet on my hand and put it on top of the main coil already in the sys hauler. The next time I climb, I pull out the top 10 feet and leave the rest in the sys hauler until I’m ready to come down. But then I moved to an 8mm tether with a prusik or a Kong and just leave the rappel rope stowed. Much easier to manage, less noise, just better all around.

 

[philsanchez76]

Ever seen one of those same rock climbers take a 3 foot drop on a static anchor? I bet not. Climbers use dynamic rope that stretches, the more rope, the better, because you have more rope to stretch and slowly absorb the fall. Almost no saddle hunter is using dynamic rope and it wouldn’t matter anyway, when you fall a foot or two there’s not enough rope to provide enough stretch to make any difference. Take a 1 foot piece of 550 cord and stretch it, then do the same with 20 feet. Rock Climbing harness is designed for fall arrest, a saddle is designed for positioning. Don’t fool yourself. You will definitely feel a 1 foot drop on a saddle rope, more and you are going to feel it for a while if you manage to avoid getting seriously hurt. Good Luck and Be Safe!

I’m not sure about the length of rope effecting it’s stretch. Should have same % elongation no matter how long meaning I think even a short dynamic rope should seriously improve your chances

 

[2Sloe]

I’m not sure about the length of rope effecting it’s stretch. Should have same % elongation no matter how long meaning I think even a short dynamic rope should seriously improve your chances

How many saddle hunters do you think use dynamic rope? Most are using canyon, oplux, ResTech, Predator, are any of those dynamic ropes?

 

[philsanchez76]

How many saddle hunters do you think use dynamic rope? Most are using canyon, oplux, ResTech, Predator, are any of those dynamic ropes?

I definitely know a few of us one stickers are starting to use dynamic ropes for tethers during the climb. I mostly was questioning the part about a short dynamic rope not mattering because it’s too short to stretch enough to help reduce force. I believe the dynamic property is still present even in a short rope.

 

[gcr0003]

I definitely know a few of us one stickers are starting to use dynamic ropes for tethers during the climb. I mostly was questioning the part about a short dynamic rope not mattering because it’s too short to stretch enough to help reduce force. I believe the dynamic property is still present even in a short rope.

Hey man the modulus of elasticity for the same rope of a short and long length would be the same but the amount of force the rope will be able to absorb would differ. Maybe think of it like a spring. It’s ability to stretch enough to lessen the blow of the fall is directly related to the length of rope. Meaning, the shorter you go with the rope the less it’s gonna help you.

 

[2Sloe]

I definitely know a few of us one stickers are starting to use dynamic ropes for tethers during the climb. I mostly was questioning the part about a short dynamic rope not mattering because it’s too short to stretch enough to help reduce force. I believe the dynamic property is still present even in a short rope.

I wont profess to being a rock climbing expert. I do see belayers using their own body weight to reduce the impact of falls for climbers on short ropes vice just wrapping the rope around a fixed object and keeping slack out. I wont argue that there is no dynamic property in a short rope, my supposition is that it’s not enough to dramatically reduce the shock load from a fall, otherwise why wouldn’t everyone be using dynamic rope? I mean if you can take a 20 foot fall and not get hurt as quoted, then a 6 foot foot fall should be a breeze. If that were the case I’d be all over that and I think everyone else would be too. No more moving the tether up as I go. Just climb to the top of the stick and then move the tether, with no worry about the stick letting go because that dynamic rope has got me covered. I’m just thinking that there’s a whole lot of people way smarter than me out there and if that was possible, they would be doing it. What do you think?