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Don't use Rage Chisel Points with twisted tip!!

Bwhana

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Been biting my tongue so far, but what the heck. I will preface my comments with the fact that I have been using archery on animals for about 40 years and used to shoot in competitions, so I know a little bit. Most bows out today can outshoot their shooter, even a Walmart special. Most people overestimate their skills and therefore take shots at angles and distances they have zero business taking. They like to blame the resulting issues on their broadheads, thus threads like this one. When it comes to broadheads, there are a few truths that everyone should consider.

First truth is that you can kill a deer with nothing more than a field point, IF properly placed. Yes, I did it once to say I could. That means ANY broadhead made will kill a deer if shot placement is correct. Proper placement is all that really matters and everything else is just entertaining chat!

Second truth is that a fixed blade, cut on impact head will kill and not fail out of a properly tuned bow, but sadly, most bows are not properly tuned in the field and folks turn to mechs to make up for tuning. I will also add that most pro shops do not fully tune bows leaving their shops, they just don't seem to have or take the time and expect shooters to do so on their own. You may get less blood with a smaller fixed head, but you usually end up with a deer on the ground either within or just out of sight too.

Final truth is that with Rage or any other mechs, if you shoot them enough times on animals, you WILL experience a premature blade deployment, lack of blade deployment, or some other type of failure, period. Just hope it is not on the biggest buck of your life!

I am not saying not to shoot mechs, but if you do, know what you signed up for when they let you down, your choice.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 

boyne bowhunter

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Not to derail the thread but I've got to tip my hat once again to Saddlehunter community. In other forums I've been a member of (no need to mention them) a thread with this title would have quickly degenerated into a free-for-all of name calling and "you don't know what you're talking abouts". You guys on here are really special. The discussion has been polite and without controversy. Thanks to all for your genuine attempt to appreciate everyone's viewpoints. This is what makes Saddlehunter.com such a unique and special place. Thanks again guys!
 

Gator

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May 20, 2019
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366
Location
Virginia
It'd be nice/useful if we could expand that discussion to momentum or KE values rather than just poundage. You've got guys from say 27-31 in draw, bows ranging from say 300ibo to 350 ibo.
Very true. The simple start to that conversation (at least to me) is to start with poundage but KE is definitely the force that ultimately matters.
 

neonomad

Active Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
152
I think nap spitfires are the best mechanical ever made, I love them and cannot remember the last time I had to track a deer
Agree. I shoot 65-70 lbs 30” and have never had an issue. Off and on I try fixed but keep going back to Spitfires. I did run Killzones one year and killed 4 deer with em, but it seemed like the 2 blade hole was sealing easier and blood trails were all bad, maybe just my luck. But went back to Spitfires. Quiet, forgiving, reliable.
 

robertreed711

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Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
221
I used to shoot Killzone Cut-on-Contact, left gigantic slits. I now shoot Montec fixed, still cut-on-contact. Plows through meat and most bone. Either way, I am a believer in the cut-on-contact design, especially with my short draw and under-60 pull weight. I want lacerative trauma from start to finish, personally.
I have a 28.5" draw shooting 70# with about 435 grains of arrow weight and I'm also shooting Montecs. Similar to you I want something cutting start to finish and I like the solid 1 piece design of them. I have yet to not get a pass through with them. Not saying it can't or won't happen but I am confident in them.

All that being said, everything has it's downside. 2 years ago I smoked a big doe from the ground hitting both lungs and slicing into the heart with a single blade. That deer went 200 yards and bled very little until about 3/4 of the way into the track. Still not sure why the blood was that sparse.
 

neonomad

Active Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
152
Been biting my tongue so far, but what the heck. I will preface my comments with the fact that I have been using archery on animals for about 40 years and used to shoot in competitions, so I know a little bit. Most bows out today can outshoot their shooter, even a Walmart special. Most people overestimate their skills and therefore take shots at angles and distances they have zero business taking. They like to blame the resulting issues on their broadheads, thus threads like this one. When it comes to broadheads, there are a few truths that everyone should consider.

First truth is that you can kill a deer with nothing more than a field point, IF properly placed. Yes, I did it once to say I could. That means ANY broadhead made will kill a deer if shot placement is correct. Proper placement is all that really matters and everything else is just entertaining chat!

Second truth is that a fixed blade, cut on impact head will kill and not fail out of a properly tuned bow, but sadly, most bows are not properly tuned in the field and folks turn to mechs to make up for tuning. I will also add that most pro shops do not fully tune bows leaving their shops, they just don't seem to have or take the time and expect shooters to do so on their own. You may get less blood with a smaller fixed head, but you usually end up with a deer on the ground either within or just out of sight too.

Final truth is that with Rage or any other mechs, if you shoot them enough times on animals, you WILL experience a premature blade deployment, lack of blade deployment, or some other type of failure, period. Just hope it is not on the biggest buck of your life!

I am not saying not to shoot mechs, but if you do, know what you signed up for when they let you down, your choice.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
I have been tuning the heck out of my bow since February, hundreds of arrows through paper, and it still seems sensitive to grip... maybe my arrow spine is borderline... At the range I can make fixed fly straight. But in the saddle from who knows what angle, rotating through a couple different sets of gloves... I’ve decided the odds of a perfect release are high enough I’m going to stick with Spitfires.
 

mattsteg

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Sep 26, 2018
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Very true. The simple start to that conversation (at least to me) is to start with poundage but KE is definitely the force that ultimately matters.
If you estimate say 2fps/lb and 10fps/in - a 28in draw guy with 330ish 7in bh vs a guy with a 31in draw and a speedier 340-350 fps bow. The longer draw guy would be shooting similar speeds/energy at something like a 20ish pound lower draw (fixed arrow weight). That's a big difference without going to crazy unlikely combos.
 

Bwhana

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Dec 8, 2017
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Hickory, NC
I have been tuning the heck out of my bow since February, hundreds of arrows through paper, and it still seems sensitive to grip... maybe my arrow spine is borderline... At the range I can make fixed fly straight. But in the saddle from who knows what angle, rotating through a couple different sets of gloves... I’ve decided the odds of a perfect release are high enough I’m going to stick with Spitfires.
Great example! Saddle or stand, it is too easy too cheat on form and cause bad shots. Exactly why I say choose your own heads and go with them, but if a mech opens in flight, even perfect form doesn't matter, just understand if it happens. I have a friend that missed a double drop booner in Illinois due to a Rage opening early and you could not give him the entire company for free now.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 

Gator

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Joined
May 20, 2019
Messages
366
Location
Virginia
Great example! Saddle or stand, it is too easy too cheat on form and cause bad shots. Exactly why I say choose your own heads and go with them, but if a mech opens in flight, even perfect form doesn't matter, just understand if it happens. I have a friend that missed a double drop booner in Illinois due to a Rage opening early and you could not give him the entire company for free now.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
How can anyone prove a BH opened in flight? Maybe your friend got the fever and just made a bad shot....
 

DaWiz9578

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Jan 12, 2019
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437
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SE Michigan
How can anyone prove a BH opened in flight? Maybe your friend got the fever and just made a bad shot....
nose dive...exactly what Im concerned about on top of the penetration.

Like i said ill make it through this season with the mechanicals but plan on switching to fixed next year when I really try to dial in my arrow/broadhead, EFOC tuning. For now ive just shot through some paper, couple tweaks and call it good enough. Good groups within 30 yds (20 will be my shooting limit).
 

Gator

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Messages
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Location
Virginia
nose dive...exactly what Im concerned about on top of the penetration.

Like i said ill make it through this season with the mechanicals but plan on switching to fixed next year when I really try to dial in my arrow/broadhead, EFOC tuning. For now ive just shot through some paper, couple tweaks and call it good enough. Good groups within 30 yds (20 will be my shooting limit).
The Rage opening in flight has been fixed for close to a decade. The collars have eliminated them opening in flight if done correctly. I guess there's a chance there's a one off but that's probably user error or slight contact with something along the way.
 

Nutterbuster

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Where the skys are so blue!
Final truth is that if you shoot enough times on animals, you WILL experience some type of failure, period. Just hope it is not on the biggest buck of your life!
Fixed it for ya! ;)

Stuff happens. Heck, I've watched deer walk out of my life with 165 grain corelokts in their breast basket. To paraphrase a great man.

"Hunting is sad, hunting's a bust.
All ya can do, is shoot if ya must.
Ya shoot what ya must shoot, and ya shoot it well.
Well, I'd shoot it too! Honey baby can't ya tell."
 

DelaWhere_Arrow

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Jul 16, 2019
Messages
894
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How can anyone prove a BH opened in flight? Maybe your friend got the fever and just made a bad shot....
I had a buddy put compound bow broadheads on a crossbow bolt. His dumb fault for not reading the package, but those things opened in flight on three shots. First shot opened early, nicked deer’s femoral artery (luckily) and it died after running no less than a mile at with a volleyball sized slit across its ham.
Second and third shots opened early on a single doe, and missed her clean both times before she spooked off (luckily). It was at this point that my buddy said, “oh damn something is wrong.”
He took the bow with him to the shop when he needed another pack of heads, and the tech told him the speed of the bow was too much for the normal broadheads, which is why they made crossbow-specific heads (duh, read the package before you buy). The superior speed caused the broadheads to “think” they were hitting terminal velocity with the forces on release, and opened them as if they had impacted something in flight, veering them widely off-course.
He bought some xbow broadheads of the same type and boom, no more careening shots.
Long way of saying it CAN happen, but it’s not easy to tell and it’s not likely if you are using the correct equipment for your setup.
 

Nutterbuster

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Where the skys are so blue!
I had a buddy put compound bow broadheads on a crossbow bolt. His dumb fault for not reading the package, but those things opened in flight on three shots. First shot opened early, nicked deer’s femoral artery (luckily) and it died after running no less than a mile at with a volleyball sized slit across its ham.
Second and third shots opened early on a single doe, and missed her clean both times before she spooked off (luckily). It was at this point that my buddy said, “oh damn something is wrong.”
He took the bow with him to the shop when he needed another pack of heads, and the tech told him the speed of the bow was too much for the normal broadheads, which is why they made crossbow-specific heads (duh, read the package before you buy). The superior speed caused the broadheads to “think” they were hitting terminal velocity with the wind friction, and opened them as if they had impacted something in flight, veering them widely off-course.
He bought some xbow broadheads of the same type and boom, no more careening shots.
Long way of saying it CAN happen, but it’s not easy to tell and it’s not likely if you are using the correct equipment for your setup.
What manufacturer was this? From talking to the folks at NAP and Feradyne, all of their broadheads are the same. The only difference between crossbow and regular heads is the word on the package.

When I hunted with a crossbow, I never once purchased crossbow specific heads.
 

DelaWhere_Arrow

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Delaware
What manufacturer was this? From talking to the folks at NAP and Feradyne, all of their broadheads are the same. The only difference between crossbow and regular heads is the word on the package.

When I hunted with a crossbow, I never once purchased crossbow specific heads.
Lol Rage. That’s why I posted here, in the Rage post. Just didn’t wanna be a naysayer. Actually, it was the same kind as in this post (XTreme 2 chisel I think, circa 2013.)
 
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