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Eastern Woods Outdoors Q&A

Nutterbuster

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2017
Messages
10,062
Location
Where the skys are so blue!
Hey guys. Since I'm now working part-time with @DanO and answering questions I never knew existed about products (What size is the bungee on your knaider/swaider? How thick is the camo coating on your sticks? What size bolt do I need for a Muddy stick? Do you sell step bits? Is this schwabish hitch tied properly?) I've realized that while I know what I think is a lot about saddle hunting, I'm a long way from knowing it all. I've tried a little bit of everything and owned a LOT of gear, but a lot of stuff was a try-it-and-ditch-it affair.

So I wanted to do 2 things here. For one, I wanted to have an actively-managed page here in the vendor access area that people could use to get their gear-related questions answered. My hope is that whatever I can't answer, some of the users who have been shopping with #themano since day one can.

Feel free to ask gear-related questions on here. Out of respect for @redsquirrel and the mods who make this site work, I'm asking everybody to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE come to us directly if you have customer-service related questions like order status, shipping dates, etc. We have email addresses (mine is nicholas@doublesteps.com), a phone number (866 EWO HUNT), a live-chat option on the website, and a "contact us" form. Heck, you can even send us a letter to our PO box. Gear talk is a huge part of saddlehunter.com, customer service for a 3rd party company (us), not so much. Also please bear in mind that due to forum rules we can't discuss our products outside of this designated area, or weigh-in on competitor's offerings. If you notice you can read this thread, but you can't comment, that means you're not a member and you should TOTALLY join and support what I personally think is one of, if not the absolute most, coolest communities on the web.

With that out of the way, here's a few questions I have for folks using our gear:

How are folks deciding on webbing vs amsteel aiders? What matters to you when you make the selection? For me it was cost and convenience. I could buy webbing over-the-counter and tie knots in it myself. But a lot of guys like amsteel for the cleaner look of a splice or because they already have it for use as stick attachment or saddle bridges. What made the decision for you?

One, two, and three step aiders. What makes you go with one over the other? I never have seriously used more than a single step aider.

7/64th vs 1/8th amsteel. What made you choose one over the other for different uses?

Angled vs straight doublesteps. If you bought the steps when both were available, what made you pick straight over angled or vice-versa?

As far as questions that I've seen asked a lot over the last month and a half that aren't "When will x ship/be-in-stock/be-released?", here's what I consider the "Top 5"

Straight vs Angled Scout?

Mainly depends on if you sit or stand more. Sitters seem to like flat scouts. Leaners seem to prefer angled. Although, it's really very much personal preference. I sit a lot and would rather have the angled for the small percentage of the time I lean.

What length stick should I go with?

This is almost entirely dependent on how high you can step. Best way to find that out to walk up to a door frame, stand with one foot on one each side of it, and lift and measure a comfortable step distance with each foot. Round down a bit if you wear heavy winter clothes where you're at. Don't try to go too long. Stretching it out a couple of inches just makes you uncomfortable while climbing, introduces the potential for injury, and gains you all of an extra foot tops when climbing. Not worth it. Step distance on our sticks is 2" shorter than the total stick length. So if you order a 20" stick, it has 18" step spacing.

What size bolt do I need for X?

If you're buying a standoff or step it's machined to fit a 1" tube like is used for muddy, API, Lone Wolf, Novix, etc. The necessary bolt is specified on those items' page.

A lot of folks buying cable aiders miss the information for the bolt they need initially since you have to scroll down. Here's that info:

  • 1/4″-20 x 2 1/4″ socket head – Use these for EWO sticks or components. The EWO standoffs are designed to be used with socket head bolts.
  • 1/4″-20 x 2 1/2″ hex head – Use these for LW/Novix sticks when using stock single steps.
  • 1/4″-20 x 2 1/4″ hex head – Use these for LW/Novix when using DoubleStesps.
  • M6 x 1.0 x 50mm button head – Use these for Hawk Helium sticks. Replaces bolt on lower standoff.
  • 5/16″-18 x 2 1/4″ hex head Use these for XOP and API Huntin’ Sticks with DoubleSteps and XOP Minis (connected at lower standoff location)
  • 5/16″-18 x 2 1/2″ hex head Use these for XOP and API Huntin’ Sticks with stock steps.
  • 1/4″-20 x 1 3/4″ hex head – Use these for Muddy Pros or any other 1″ stick when mounting through the tube directly.
  • 1/4″-20 x 1″ button head – Use these for EWO DoubleSteps when mounting directly to the DoubleStep in one of the existing holes.
  • 1/4″-20 x 1 1/4″ hex head – Use these for Shikars to mount through the aider hole at the bottom of the stick and for Beast sticks.
LWCG sticks are kinda weird. No bolt is required for the single-step sticks. The stock bolt is long enough to allow the aider to fit and still bolt everything together. The double step uses a 5/16, 1.5", course thread hex bolt.


What's the difference between your ropes?

Excellent question. When choosing a rope the first thing to consider is whether or not it is within the manufacturer's parameters of whatever device you are using with it, and whether it's actually "climbing rope." DO NOT use 8mm rope on a device that specifies 9mm or larger. The difference in weight and packability is extremely marginal, and the risk you invite going out-of-spec is just too high. And no, you shouldn't rappel with paracord, amsteel, accessory cord, bungee cord, etc.

Once that's out of the way, it's largely comes down to things like stiffness. Oplux is fairly limp, while canyon and htp are stiffer. On one hand, a stiffer rope can perform better with some mechanical devices and is preferable for things like a lineman's rope where you are flipping it up a tree or handling it a lot. On the other, more supple ropes pack a little easier. Some ropes, such as canyon, are especially abrasion-resistant and weather-resistant. This is perfect for our use since treebark is rough and the woods are frequently wet.

A lot of people want to know how strong a rope is. This is good information to know, but all climbing ropes are more than adequate for climbing purposes provided you are using them as the manufacturer intends and following good climbing safety protocol. One rope may be "stronger" than another, but not handle as well in the tree. Or you may just not like the color. ;) But assuming they're in good condition and used correctly, they'll all hold you.

Do you carry X?

Most likely. DanO is awesome about listening to folks and finding a way to meet customer needs. We've got whoopies, daisychains, OCBs, ROSs, knaiders, swaiders, and some more stuff even I probably haven't found out about yet. I'm happy to point folks in the right direction and send you a hyperlink if I can, but the search function on the EWO site works pretty well. Maybe not Google-level, finishes-your-thoughts-before-you-have-them good, but good enough that if you punch in a keyword it will most likely find what you're looking for. I only say this because I've had more than one person chat in and not know we had a search bar, and there's enough product that it's frustrating to search the site without using it. Friendly FYI. :)

Another friendly aside. If you log into the website and notice good-ole-St. Nicholas running the chat, I am regrettably unable to check your order number for ya. It's a long walk from my kitchen table to Michigan, and I'm not setup to access that system.

Again, let's try and keep this thread about gear talk. That's information every forum member can appreciate. If you ask me when you're order ships, I just may have to bump you to the back of the line. (I totally can't actually do that.)
 
This is great, you know what would be also helpful is some kind of "best practices" thread where certain truisms are kind of spelled out like, the Awesome, Ultimate One Stick's are 1" Tubes and even though EWO sells Scout platforms, if you have an OOAL Scout that's for a Shikar, it won't fit the other sized tubes..... stuff like that.

Also, a saddle hunting lexicon would be useful too: EWO = Eastern Woods Outdoors, OOAL= Out On a Limb Manufacturing, Predator Platform = Tethrd Predator Stand Alone Platform, SYS Hauler =Tethrd Dump Pouch, HYS Strap =Tethrd branded webbed daisy chain for public land legal bow/gear holder, Mission Platform= Trophyline Mission Stand alone Platform, Rut Roost- OOAL Stand Alone seat, etc. Ambush- LWCG Kuchert's (sp?) Ambush stand alone platform, etc.
 
Are you the Nicholas that shows up in my chat box on the right hand side of the doublesteps page? “Nicholas is online”


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I'm happy to point folks in the right direction and send you a hyperlink if I can, but the search function on the EWO site works pretty well. Maybe not Google-level, finishes-your-thoughts-before-you-have-them good, but good enough that if you punch in a keyword it will most likely find what you're looking for.
That's why everyone should start using DuckDuckGo for their default search engine instead of bigbro google!!!
 
Hopefully my dumbass questions are covered in some sort of vendor-customer confidentiality agreement.
Not dumb at all, I wondered the same thing at first.. hence my stupid response!!! Sorry brother didn't mean it that way at all!!!
 
This is great, you know what would be also helpful is some kind of "best practices" thread where certain truisms are kind of spelled out like, the Awesome, Ultimate One Stick's are 1" Tubes and even though EWO sells Scout platforms, if you have an OOAL Scout that's for a Shikar, it won't fit the other sized tubes..... stuff like that.

Also, a saddle hunting lexicon would be useful too: EWO = Eastern Woods Outdoors, OOAL= Out On a Limb Manufacturing, Predator Platform = Tethrd Predator Stand Alone Platform, SYS Hauler =Tethrd Dump Pouch, HYS Strap =Tethrd branded webbed daisy chain for public land legal bow/gear holder, Mission Platform= Trophyline Mission Stand alone Platform, Rut Roost- OOAL Stand Alone seat, etc. Ambush- LWCG Kuchert's (sp?) Ambush stand alone platform, etc.
We have a lot of that info on our website, but that's kinda why I wanted to get this thread going. Little factoids like that. Pretty much all of our gear revolves around the Allmighty 1" 6061 aluminum square tubing.

As far as a lexicon, some of that terminology gets up in other folks' wheelhouse. It'd be a good thing to exist and I think a few people have tried it on a few threads. It's just tough because it's constantly changing.

And @iamcorey, I'm that Nicholas. :) Bruce Wayne is Batman, and Nicholas is Nutterbuster. And none of those 4 entities have ever been seen in the same room together...
 
I confess, it was me asking all the dumb questions. I was on EWO and saw Nutterbuster was in chat and just couldn’t resist. I didn’t have anything better to do yesterday. It was pretty comical on my end. Lol!
@kyler1945 got me good for real. "Do y'all carry 16.64" sticks? 17" would hang on brush but 16 wouldn't get me high enough."
 
How are folks deciding on webbing vs amsteel aiders? What matters to you when you make the selection? What made the decision for you?

One, two, and three step aiders. What makes you go with one over the other? I never have seriously used more than a single step aider.

My thoughts. I have tried single tied webbing aider on a one stick with20 inch length, 2 step ewo amsteel double step at 20 inch step length, and now a 3 step webbing double step at 15 inches step separation.

Single aider: 20" muddy pro
Simple, cheap and easy. I wanted an extra length so that I could start out higher from the ground. I wanted extra length to make longer moves. I wanted longer length because when going around branches, I could not place my stick in the best spot, so had to really reach to get to the aider. Way to much core workout.

Novix mini with amsteel double step ewo, 20 " step placement.

20" step placement is more when the step collapses on your foot when climbing. I am 50 and flexible, and can lift up my foot 32" easy inside my home. After a snowstorm and wearing bibs, no way I could even do 20". The hose squeak with rubber boots or wet boots. I personally don't like that they can roll, I never had a problem, but who knows. Sold step immediately after that snowstorm.

Ewo 3 step webbing at 15" step distance.
I haven't put it on the tree yet, as there's a long wait time to get these, but it looks like great quality, but no review yet.

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@kobudo, that's great feedback. Excellent point on the step spacing. Just because you can do 20" steps on sticks doesn't mean you can do 20" spacing on an aider. They do require more technique and core strength for sure.
 
am 50 and flexible, and can lift up my foot 32" easy inside my home.
Also, that's super impressive. I just double-checked and at 27 years old and standing about 6ft even with a 32" inseam, i can only manage a 24" step. 20 is comfortable in civvy clothes at 72°. 18 would probably be right if I was cold and stiff. 15 would probably be about all I wanted on an aider.
 
Also, that's super impressive. I just double-checked and at 27 years old and standing about 6ft even with a 32" inseam, i can only manage a 24" step. 20 is comfortable in civvy clothes at 72°. 18 would probably be right if I was cold and stiff. 15 would probably be about all I wanted on an aider.
35 years of martial arts.

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35 years of martial arts.

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kobudo’s setup
4b40c5a98cc437456fc2101db65bf7c2.jpg



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It’s not a huge deal, but the website doesn’t seem to address how tag ends are managed (or not) on rope by the foot.

Whip dip; tape, cut, burn; shrink end caps; etc.?

While one stick rope says it’s finished with stopper-knot and shrink tube.

Also, I had to laugh about 1” tube paint thickness...while I know that was tongue and cheek....I did wonder if the tubes are anodized and then dipped.

NB, I really like the way you addressed your/EWO’s goals for this thread in your post and from what I’ve seen of you, I think you’ll be both very helpful to EWO and to the saddle hunting community as well in this role.
 
It’s not a huge deal, but the website doesn’t seem to address how tag ends are managed (or not) on rope by the foot.

Whip dip; tape, cut, burn; shrink end caps; etc.?

While one stick rope says it’s finished with stopper-knot and shrink tube.

Also, I had to laugh about 1” tube paint thickness...while I know that was tongue and cheek....I did wonder if the tubes are anodized and then dipped.

NB, I really like the way you addressed your/EWO’s goals for this thread in your post and from what I’ve seen of you, I think you’ll be both very helpful to EWO and to the saddle hunting community as well in this role.
Driving now but we do have this on the info page on the site:

Do you cut and seal the ends of rope?
Yes, if you want your rope cut into multiple lengths, just order the total length you want and put your desired lengths in the order notes when you checkout. We heat seal the ends on standard rope and cap specialty rope with adhesive lined shrink tubing (Oplux, TRC, C-IV, Beal). These ropes do not cut easily and are heat resistant so must be finished.
 
Driving now but we do have this on the info page on the site:

Do you cut and seal the ends of rope?
Yes, if you want your rope cut into multiple lengths, just order the total length you want and put your desired lengths in the order notes when you checkout. We heat seal the ends on standard rope and cap specialty rope with adhesive lined shrink tubing (Oplux, TRC, C-IV, Beal). These ropes do not cut easily and are heat resistant so must be finished.

Great, thanks. I didn’t see that.
 
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