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Elite Hunter shooting bare shaft bullet holes with center shot at over an inch!?!?

Weisman125

Weisman125

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
55
Location
Nebraska
Need some advice from someone smarter than me. I've got an Elite Hunter that shoots bare shaft bullet holes through paper with the center shot at about 1 1/8". Anyone else have this issue? My QAD is maxed out. What could the problem be?

It's a 28.5" draw at 69lbs. It does this with 29" axis 5mm 340s with 125/100 grain heads and 28" axis 5mm 300s with 75 and 50 gr brass inserts and 125/100 gr heads. Online calculators say the spine should be correct. My 29" axis 400s shot a slight knock left tear. I've tried everything I can think of to correct this. I've played with cable slide bar to see if cam lean is an issue and it hasn't changed much. I've tried a rubber full hand grip (like old Mathews style) and tried different releases to see if something I'm doing with grip or release affects it with negligible change. Only thing I haven't done is replace the string. Could it be that simple. What else should I try?
 
Every time I've had a situation like this it has been cam lean, bow grip torque, or fletching contact with the cables or rest (perhaps a badly timed drop away rest...cover your fletchings with red lipstick and then shoot into a target (not through paper) and see if you get smudges....or spray with foot powder). That Elite has old school binary cams, so I hope you can shim the cams to correct any lean. When you are getting bullet holes, you should be able to line the string up with the cams and cam grooves and have the arrow split down the middle by it (looking from behind) with you sight pin slightly to the left of the string (for a rightie). Is that the case?

If cam lean is severe, I don't see how any type of cable guard adjustment can do anything....the forces moving the cam to lean are massive and must be brought into a balance that will shoot for you.
 
raisins said:
Every time I've had a situation like this it has been cam lean, bow grip torque, or fletching contact with the cables or rest (perhaps a badly timed drop away rest...cover your fletchings with red lipstick and then shoot into a target (not through paper) and see if you get smudges....or spray with foot powder). That Elite has old school binary cams, so I hope you can shim the cams to correct any lean. When you are getting bullet holes, you should be able to line the string up with the cams and cam grooves and have the arrow split down the middle by it (looking from behind) with you sight pin slightly to the left of the string (for a rightie). Is that the case?

If cam lean is severe, I don't see how any type of cable guard adjustment can do anything....the forces moving the cam to lean are massive and must be brought into a balance that will shoot for you.
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Cam lean is what I'm afraid of. I'm confident the rest is timed correctly and used baby powder to check for fletching contact and tried low-pro heat vanes to be sure.

The string bisects the cam groves and rest perfectly. The pin would probably be just to left but I'm out of adjustment with this particular sight. POI VS POA would indicate this to be the case.
 
Weisman125 said:
Cam lean is what I'm afraid of. I'm confident the rest is timed correctly and used baby powder to check for fletching contact and tried low-pro heat vanes to be sure.

The string bisects the cam groves and rest perfectly. The pin would probably be just to left but I'm out of adjustment with this particular sight. POI VS POA would indicate this to be the case.
Click to expand...

It can help to hang the bow and sit back and eye everything or sit back and have your head rested and bow in your lap vertical between knees as a vice...so you can just move your eyes...and then look up and down as you are.

If you can trace the string down the center of your two cams and with that all lined up the string is splitting your arrow rest down the middle...and you are shooting bullet holes...then your bow is likely performing correctly.....but your string is just "in the wrong place" (too far to the left) due to cam lean.

If you could adjust the string inward (by removing cam lean)...then you would have to chase the string with the rest (to basically keep your same string to arrow geometry working for you now)....eventually you would have the string down the center of the bow (as you removed lean). And everything would look nice and be shooting well.

I have no idea what the technique is on that bow to remove cam lean. I know with some of the early binary cams, you just had to live with it. Bad lean can be "dangerous". I had an early single cam bow (before they'd figured things out) and it had so much lean that I once torqued it a bit with my hand and the string derailed at full draw.

Is this the first time you have set this bow up? If not, was it tuning better before? Have you changed strings or done any other work or damage (is a bent axle or cam possible?) since it was tuning better for you? Is anything clicking as you draw to indicate cable or strings are exiting/entering the grooves in a not smooth way?
 
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raisins said:
Is this the first time you have set this bow up? If not, was it tuning better before? Have you changed strings or done any other work or damage (is a bent axle or cam possible?) since it was tuning better for you? Is anything clicking as you draw to indicate cable or strings are exiting/entering the grooves in a not smooth way?
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This is not the first time I've set it up. I'm the original owner but have never been able to get it perfect. I've just gotten it fairly close and adjusted my sight further left than it should be to compensate. Hunting scenarios at 30 yards and in haven't been an issue. I've just sighted in for broadheads and called it good even though field tips weren't even close. Was always told "if they hit where you aim then who cares." This is the first time I've really put in the work to try and get the perfect tear. Even with the center shot set at recommended 13/16", I only see about 1.5" to 2" or so nock right tear. The bow hasn't been dropped on damaged in anyway that I'm aware of and lives in a hard case most of the time. There is no clicking or anything of that nature and no abnormal wear on string or cable serving that would indicate rubbing on an edge of the groove.
 
I have an elite with similar tendencies. Heavier spined arrows help me a bunch.
 
Weisman125 said:
This is not the first time I've set it up. I'm the original owner but have never been able to get it perfect. I've just gotten it fairly close and adjusted my sight further left than it should be to compensate. Hunting scenarios at 30 yards and in haven't been an issue. I've just sighted in for broadheads and called it good even though field tips weren't even close. Was always told "if they hit where you aim then who cares." This is the first time I've really put in the work to try and get the perfect tear. Even with the center shot set at recommended 13/16", I only see about 1.5" to 2" or so nock right tear. The bow hasn't been dropped on damaged in anyway that I'm aware of and lives in a hard case most of the time. There is no clicking or anything of that nature and no abnormal wear on string or cable serving that would indicate rubbing on an edge of the groove.
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how are your broadheads flying now compared to your field points?

If they are at same poi then I personally would call it good for this season at least (unless I found a way to adjust cam angle, google showed me people discussing shimming elites years ago)
 
raisins said:
how are your broadheads flying now compared to your field points?

If they are at same poi then I personally would call it good for this season at least (unless I found a way to adjust cam angle, google showed me people discussing shimming elites years ago)
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Broadheads hit 3"-4" left of field points. I might have to get a new sight that has more adjustment to the left if I keep the rest where it is to sight in for broadheads but that's probably the best option at this point.
 
A free experiment would be to drop the poundage on ur bow and see how that changes things if any

My backup looks so crazy...I bareshaft tuned and the rest is pointing 1 way and the sight another and nothing visual looks correct at all but it shoots straight and hits what I'm aiming at with field point and broadhead....I just call it good
 
I've got the same bow at 61# but mine wanted to tear left. I know you said you've messed with your grip already but keep trying different positions. I've got 3 Elites and all like a low grip. Another option is to swap limbs. Seen that work before.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
My 2016 Elite E32 did this very thing. I went to heavier arrows, and it helped a bit. Not perfect, but bareshaft tuned, it shoots slick tricks just like field points.
 
How difficult is it to shim cams and what's the basic process? Closest good pro shop is over an hour away but I do have access to a press to do it myself.
 
Weisman125 said:
How difficult is it to shim cams and what's the basic process? Closest good pro shop is over an hour away but I do have access to a press to do it myself.
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You are moving the cam in one direction along the axle between the limbs. The shims are spacers.

For instance, let's say your original set up is

LIMB_MEDIUM SHIM_CAM_MEDIUM SHIM_LIMB moving left to right at the axle

Then you can move your string to the right by going

LIMB_LARGE SHIM_CAM_SMALL SHIM_LIMB

The basic process is to press the bow, remove the axle, and then make the changes noted above.

Many bows now come ready to go with shims and extra sizes. I did not mess with binary cams prior to this being common place (shot hybrid cams with yokes). So, I do not know if 1. your bow is set up to be shimmed or 2. if your bow is not set up to be shimmed then can it be retrofitted for shimming.

Mathews does something now called Top Hats. You can watch videos on that or on shimming. Current PSE bows are all made to be shimmed.
 
You should just let me buy it off you!!

All in all hope you get it worked out man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I didn't read each response but have you nock tuned your carbons? I was having issues when I first started bare shaft tuning for my heavy arrow build and I kept getting nock right tears no matter what I did so I began turning my nocks a quarter turn and shooting them until each of my shafts were shooting bullet holes. It is tedious but it makes a huge difference. This is assuming your bow is set to spec. ATA, brace, cam timing, and no interference in any way causing erratic arrow flight and obviously no to minimal cam lean. At first I thought I had to do all this shimming and yoke twisting and come to find out it was just my shafts not oriented right. I went from 1-2" nock right tears to bullet holes immediately. Try this before you monkey with spacers and what not if you do not see a lot of cam lean. Once you get your arrows oriented to shoot "off the ridge" of each arrow, then start dialing in what point weights you want and shoot them through paper. I hope this helps. I would put the rest and everything back to the recommended center shot though before starting this. JMO.
 
Weisman125 said:
Thanks for info @raisins. I look into it.
Click to expand...

Thread you might like.

Elite Energy Tuning Question. Should I shim?

To shim or not shim the cams, if so how much? Should I do only the top cam or both? Right handed bow (holding bow in left hand to draw), 70lb draw, 30" draw length, 635 grain arrow which is a BE Rampage 250 cut to 28" with about 270 grains on the front. Cams are timed. Currently I have an Elite...
www.rokslide.com www.rokslide.com

I guess you can buy kits to shim bows before bow companies produced the shims.....would make me nervous though.
 
My "old school binary" (cables on the same side of the cam) cam leaning Elites don't tune conventionally. I don't shoot COC broadheads I shoot mechs and tune with mech practice heads, if the practice head hits left of the field point I move the rest right, YES I KNOW this is opposite from what most say to do when bare shaft and broadhead tuning. BUT, it works to get the BH and FPs landing the same with my particular 30.5" draw bow and the rest will be close to spec. Now, when the BHs and FPs land together the bare shaft will hit about 2" left, go figure... I don't hunt or compete with bare shafts
 
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@woodsdog2 yes I nock tuned each arrow. It was the first time I tried it and was a amazed at the difference it makes but didn't fix my issue.

I spent some more time tinkering and have settled on leaving it where it is. My QAD is maxed out away from the riser and my IQ is maxed to the left but bare shafts are shooting bullets and field tips and broadheads are hitting within 1" of each other out to 50 yards. I guess I can't argue with those results but I will probably be upgrading to a new bow next year. Thanks everyone for all the info.
 
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