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Found a video of Ropeman Failure (unclear if it is a ropeman 1 or 2)

ThereWillBeSpuds said:
And if you have a ropeman on your tether, bridge or linesman it is being used as fall arrest. I'm just saying, I wouldn't want a device on my setup that does that to rope on a .25 factor fall.

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No, that’s not a fall arrest in that configuration. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding what fall arrest device is. “Fall arrest devices” are designed to absorb a shock load. Holding tension on an linesman’s, tether or bridge does not meet the industry definition of “fall arrest”. A device such as a Ropeman is an ascender. The packaging and paperwork that comes with these devices state that they are not “fall arrest devices. An ascender is used to “capture progress” and hold tension. They are. They are not designed to be “unloaded” and then subjected to a dynamic load and prevent a fall.
 
ThereWillBeSpuds said:
And if you have a ropeman on your tether, bridge or linesman it is being used as fall arrest. I'm just saying, I wouldn't want a device on my setup that does that to rope on a .25 factor fall.

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Click to expand...

No, that’s not a fall arrest in that configuration. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding what fall arrest device is. “Fall arrest devices” are designed to absorb a shock load. Holding tension on an linesman’s, tether or bridge does not meet the industry definition of “fall arrest”. A device such as a Ropeman is an ascender. The packaging and paperwork that comes with these devices state that they are not “fall arrest devices. An ascender is used to “capture progress” and hold tension. They are. They are not designed to be “unloaded” and then subjected to a dynamic load and prevent a fall.
 
ShooterMike said:
No, that’s not a fall arrest in that configuration. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding what fall arrest device is. “Fall arrest devices” are designed to absorb a shock load. Holding tension on an linesman’s, tether or bridge does not meet the industry definition of “fall arrest”. A device such as a Ropeman is an ascender. The packaging and paperwork that comes with these devices state that they are not “fall arrest devices. An ascender is used to “capture progress” and hold tension. They are. They are not designed to be “unloaded” and then subjected to a dynamic load and prevent a fall.
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And yet if a step or platform fails or a stick kicks out you *will* fall at least a bit and you *will* shockload those devices.

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ThereWillBeSpuds said:
And if you have a ropeman on your tether, bridge or linesman it is being used as fall arrest. I'm just saying, I wouldn't want a device on my setup that does that to rope on a .25 factor fall.

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No, that’s not a fall arrest in that configuration. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding what fall arrest device is. “Fall arrest devices” are designed to absorb a shock load. Holding tension on an linesman’s, tether or bridge does not meet the industry definition of “fall arrest”. A device such as a Ropeman is an ascender. The packaging and paperwork that comes with these devices state that they are not “fall arrest devices. An ascender is used to “capture progress” and hold tension. They are. They are not designed to be “unloaded” and then subjected to a dynamic load and prevent a fall.
 
ThereWillBeSpuds said:
And yet if a step or platform fails or a stick kicks out you *will* fall at least a bit and you *will* shockload those devices.

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As is the same with any ascender, which is why it’s important to know how to use it properly. Keep tension on it. There’s a difference between loading and shock loading


Semper Fi,
Mike
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ShooterMike said:
As is the same with any ascender, which is why it’s important to know how to use it properly. Keep tension on it. There’s a difference between loading and shock loading


Semper Fi,
Mike
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Keeping tension on it doesn't stop it from being shockloaded when your ass suddenly falls because your platform stopped being attached to the tree.

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Apex7 said:
Back it up it's that simple.
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How do you back it up if its failure mode is stripping the sheath and starting to sever the core? A series of non adjustable and redundant ropes?

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ThereWillBeSpuds said:
Keeping tension on it doesn't stop it from being shockloaded when your ass suddenly falls because your platform stopped being attached to the tree.

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Ok. Not going to argue with you, but your statements and example indicate you don’t understand the difference between being loaded and being shock loaded.

Have a nice evening friend


Semper Fi,
Mike
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ShooterMike said:
Ok. Not going to argue with you, but your statements and example indicate you don’t understand the difference between being loaded and being shock loaded.

Have a nice evening friend


Semper Fi,
Mike
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So basically no portion of a saddle hunting setup is fall arrest?

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I wish we had a tower to test these setups, I just can't picture that setup being effective unless the swabish was already under tension the whole time.

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ThereWillBeSpuds said:
So basically no portion of a saddle hunting setup is fall arrest?

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Perhaps the answers to your questions would be better absorbed if you took some time to research the climbing industry terminology and definitions. Again, an ascender is not a “fall arrest” device. Instead, it captures progress. If you choose to unload it and subject yourself to a fall, it becomes a fall arrest device, and the device cannot be blamed if it strips the sheath of the rope, or fails all together. A belay device; however, may be a “fall arrest device”. I use a Grigri+ on my tether. I have it configured to both capture my progress, and prevent a fall. I have a CT RollNLock (ascender) in line below the Grigri, which keeps tension on my setup. The grigri will capture my fall. The RollNLock will help prevent it. With constant tension on the system, one cannot “fall”. Loosing your footing and not descending ... that’s not the same as falling, in the sense we’re talking about here.

Best of luck to you figuring this out. Glad to Help you with that, but I refuse to argue with you.


Semper Fi,
Mike
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ThereWillBeSpuds said:
How do you back it up if its failure mode is stripping the sheath and starting to sever the core? A series of non adjustable and redundant ropes?

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With a schwabisch hitch above your Ropeman attached to you carabiner. If your Ropeman would fail your schwabisch hitch will still be connected to your tether or linesman rope .
 
ThereWillBeSpuds said:
I wish we had a tower to test these setups, I just can't picture that setup being effective unless the swabish was already under tension the whole time.

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You always keep the schwabisch tight with no slack I been saddle hunting a very longtime and believe me I have gone over this setup.
 
Apex7 said:
You always keep the schwabisch tight with no slack I been saddle hunting a very longtime and believe me I have gone over this setup.
Click to expand...
If the schwabisch is always tight isn't the ropeman just behaving as a 50 dollar hitch tender?

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ThereWillBeSpuds said:
If the schwabisch is always tight isn't the ropeman just behaving as a 50 dollar hitch tender?

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I never paid that much I got mine before most of the saddle hunters knew what they were. If you don't trust it don't use it. There is nothing wrong with a backup for safty.
 
This is apples and oranges on that video. He is testing to Fall Factors that just won’t be reached in a saddle hunting situation. See pic below and article. We are top roped and do not get above our contact point.
500002B0-2EEC-4566-A76F-FC895685832D.jpeg


Now this doesn’t mean a ropeman cannot fail, it’s just that we would not put these fall factor stresses on our system unless you are doing something really weird or dumb. A different test would be needed than what was shown in the video.
 
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