Friction Hitches

[John RB]

Hey @Brocky,

Hope you are doing well and appreciate your expertise and willingness to share it.

Of all the friction hitches we can tie with a Prusik loop (whether its sewn or knotted), which would you say is the best performance for climbing? Specifically, we could execute a non mechanical (sit/stand) SRT climb on just the hitch connected to our bridge and a footloop and:
1. The hitch moves easily between rising moves.
2. It doesn't jam
3. It can be broken under the load of our body so we can transition into rappel on a munter, figure 8, or similar.

For example, Prusik, Klemheist, Hedden and Bachmann all fail #3. I recall you know a few more, but am not sure which is your favorite.

Thx !

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[Brocky]

The Sticht can be adapted into a loop hitch. Initially testing shows it works good, would need to use it more to make sure it won’t bind up. Textile rings can replace the metal ones to keep it as soft as possible.

 

[gcr0003]

Hey @Brocky,

Hope you are doing well and appreciate your expertise and willingness to share it.

Of all the friction hitches we can tie with a Prusik loop (whether its sewn or knotted), which would you say is the best performance for climbing? Specifically, we could execute a non mechanical (sit/stand) SRT climb on just the hitch connected to our bridge and a footloop and:
1. The hitch moves easily between rising moves.
2. It doesn't jam
3. It can be broken under the load of our body so we can transition into rappel on a munter, figure 8, or similar.

For example, Prusik, Klemheist, Hedden and Bachmann all fail #3. I recall you know a few more, but am not sure which is your favorite.

Thx !

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The WLR hitch has been great for me this season. The sticht hitch does well but after several uses on the same line without retying or redressing it does have a tendency of slipping. It possesses those attributes listed above but needs dressed every couple climbs.

 

[John RB]

The WLR hitch has been great for me this season. The sticht hitch does well but after several uses on the same line without retying or redressing it does have a tendency of slipping. It possesses those attributes listed above but needs dressed every couple climbs.

Thx but the WLR hitch (and most friction hitches) can't be tied with a loop. This question was specifically about friction hitches that can be tied with a loop, such as a sewn prusik loop.

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[gcr0003]

Thx but the WLR hitch (and most friction hitches) can't be tied with a loop. This question was specifically about friction hitches that can be tied with a loop, such as a sewn prusik loop.

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Ahh, read to quickly. What’s your application for?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Thx but the WLR hitch (and most friction hitches) can't be tied with a loop. This question was specifically about friction hitches that can be tied with a loop, such as a sewn prusik loop.

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What if you tied the hitch and then tied the ends together to form the loop? He addresses that hitch and loop specifically in his video

 

[Brocky]

The WLR hitch has been great for me this season. The sticht hitch does well but after several uses on the same line without retying or redressing it does have a tendency of slipping. It possesses those attributes listed above but needs dressed every couple climbs.

Sounds like it might need another wrap, or there is too much separation between the wraps and the lower section.

 

[gcr0003]

Sounds like it might need another wrap, or there is too much separation between the wraps and the lower section.

If I add a wrap it’s pretty difficult to tend. But I think what happens is over time that distance gets too much separation. That’s why I mention re-dressing after a few climbs. This would be if you’re climbing the same rope and leaving the hitch on the rope similar to JRB.

 

[Brocky]

The WLR hitch has been great for me this season. The sticht hitch does well but after several uses on the same line without retying or redressing it does have a tendency of slipping. It possesses those attributes listed above but needs dressed every couple climbs.

In trying to figure out the slipping, what rope and hitch cord are you using, and how do you attach to it to a carabiner? One more, do you use a tending tube?

 

[gcr0003]

In trying to figure out the slipping, what rope and hitch cord are you using, and how do you attach to it to a carabiner? One more, do you use a tending tube?

11mm HTP with 8 and 9 mm RIT
11.4 mm predator with 9mm ECW
8mm MAMMUT or Oplux w/ 5.5 mm beal and 6 mm coppa
Also had the same experience with 9 or 10mm canyon c-iv and some other hitch cord.

I’ve attached to the carabiner eye to eye as well as a finished loop. I have not used a tending tube, just a rappel ring.

I’ve had the minor slipping on a tether as well as rope climbing

 

[John RB]

What if you tied the hitch and then tied the ends together to form the loop? He addresses that hitch and loop specifically in his video

Well, then i could use the JRB Hitch. I find it to be superior, with no jamming and no need for redressing, plus they have handles. I have a pair of 523 JRB Ascenders in soft bridge mode with one loop exposed, tied on a piece of 8mm Resc Tech and have been climbing on them in a doubled rope JRB system for months and they have not required any maintenance at all. Perfect hold and easy break every time. This question is basically asking how close we can get to that kinda performance with a hitch we tie with a Prusik loop. And nobody has a library of friction hitches bigger than @Brocky, and i figured this thread was a good place to ask. Cheers.

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[John RB]

Ahh, read to quickly. What’s your application for?

There are several. But lets just say i wanna friction hitch i can tie quickly, with confidence, blindfolded or in the dark, like i can tie a Prusik... with no need to tie a bend.... and i can execute an SRT climb on it with good performance and reliably break it under load to rappel. Something as good as JRB Ascender or WLR that is much easier to tie.

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[BTaylor]

@John RB just quickly came up with this and gave it a few tugs but no real weight. Seems to grab and release ok. Can’t put it on a tree just yet but will try it at ground level lol. Got another idea that I will see if I can get fashioned.


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[BTaylor]

This is going to be better I think.


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[BTaylor]

I just wrapped up them brought the loop end down and pulled each side of the loop through on both sides on the main line and through the bottom end of the prussik loop where the double fisherman is. Sorta sticht'ish.

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[gcr0003]

There are several. But lets just say i wanna friction hitch i can tie quickly, with confidence, blindfolded or in the dark, like i can tie a Prusik... with no need to tie a bend.... and i can execute an SRT climb on it with good performance and reliably break it under load to rappel. Something as good as JRB Ascender or WLR that is much easier to tie.

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The klemhiest is quick and easy to tie and use in a bind, especially on double ropes. It doesn’t release under tension of a full body though.

 

[gcr0003]

There are several. But lets just say i wanna friction hitch i can tie quickly, with confidence, blindfolded or in the dark, like i can tie a Prusik... with no need to tie a bend.... and i can execute an SRT climb on it with good performance and reliably break it under load to rappel. Something as good as JRB Ascender or WLR that is much easier to tie.

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Why does it have to be able to break under load? I get it’s a nice feature but climbers have been getting by without that for a long time, for ascending as well as descending. Having the hitch below your carabiner or figure 8 on a rappel does reduce the force enough that many of these hitches will break under tension.

 

[gcr0003]

It would be cool to come up with an endless loop hitch that functions like the non jamming JRB, Sticht, or WLR hitch though. I’m thinking you’d need to incorporate a carabiner or rappel ring in there somewhere?

 

[John RB]

Why does it have to be able to break under load? I get it’s a nice feature but climbers have been getting by without that for a long time, for ascending as well as descending. Having the hitch below your carabiner or figure 8 on a rappel does reduce the force enough that many of these hitches will break under tension.

It needs to be breakable under load to ensure we don't get stuck on it. Remember, we always have to be able to get down after a loss of footing. And if that happened after a platform collapse, our hitch might be set pretty tight. Its gotta be breakable, ideally with one hand, but if we can get approximately half our weight off it, with a bight for our foot, that's acceptable. The Klemheist fails the test. Here is my best solution. @Brocky ... does this match anything in your library? It's really just an improved Klemheist. But it performs better than anything else i am aware of which is tied with nothing but a prusik loop.

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[phatkaw]

^^^ Kinda like an autoblock or French prusik but cooler.