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Getting learnt with Dr. Ed Ashby

Anybody try an expandable with a 600+ total arrow weight? All I hear about is that 350 grain with expandables won't pass through, but never hear about anybody trying them with a heavy arrow. Sure they won't do as good when hitting bone, but they should punch 2 holes on a good shot.

I've thought about this approach too and on the face of it, I would think a "regularly built" expandable may not be able to stand up to all of the front energy associated with a EFOC arrow build upon impact but ones specifically manufactured for it may be somewhat of a new school of thought. It looks like the folks at VIP Broadheads are trying that approach. Check out this ATA2020 Interview from DIYSportsman's YouTube channel:

 
I've thought about this approach too and on the face of it, I would think a "regularly built" expandable may not be able to stand up to all of the front energy associated with a EFOC arrow build upon impact but ones specifically manufactured for it may be somewhat of a new school of thought. It looks like the folks at VIP Broadheads are trying that approach. Check out this ATA2020 Interview from DIYSportsman's YouTube channel:

They are proud of those things....60$ for 2....zwickeys looking better and better
 
What spine are the arrows? And this for compound or traditional?


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It's for my compound, even though I plan on coming out of the gate next year as a cherry with a recurve. Those arrows are next to come. The arrows are 250 spine Victory VAPs
 
I just spent half the day on YouTube watching ranch fairy and Ashby learning about all this. I’m about to bump up my arrow weight. They’re only around 400gr total now and want to get into the low 500s if not more. But idk if the dozen 340 spine arrows I just got a month ago will be too weak. Thinking 100gr inserts and bumping broad heads up from 100 to 125 and letting it rip!
Based on what I've been seeing from the Ranch Fairy the 340s may carry that load fine.
 
Well boys, I've been at this a while but the pieces are falling together. What you see is nearly the finished product. It's 31 3/8ths total length, 250 spine@ 9.8 gr per inch Victory VAP, sporting the masai 200gr single bevel, the Ethics 180gr stainless insert/footer combo, and weighing in at 680gr with an FoC of 21%. I shoot a 70# 27" draw Bowtech Reign 6. The fool thing flies like a dart, and quiets the bow considerably. May change the fletch color, and will add a lighted nock for sure, but other than that I love it. Crappy photo but you get the idea.
e8ec707f326a55b3c8d9b0dc82ea137f.jpg


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Nice build Kurt!

Can't wait to here this coming seasons story how you smoked a big 'ol buck with that sledge hammer and how the poor sob didn't know what hit him and he dropped within sight.
 
I just spent half the day on YouTube watching ranch fairy and Ashby learning about all this. I’m about to bump up my arrow weight. They’re only around 400gr total now and want to get into the low 500s if not more. But idk if the dozen 340 spine arrows I just got a month ago will be too weak. Thinking 100gr inserts and bumping broad heads up from 100 to 125 and letting it rip!
Like Kurt and Weldabeast said youll be fine, may have to drop your draw weight a little to dial it in and get good arrow flight and not overpower the 340 spine. When I was testing I had my 300 spine at lower 60s and 250 at higher 60# with different weights on each.

I have a pile of busted up 340s Im going to dial in some moderate FOC for some league punishment later this year.
 
You'll be fine with setup.....
Appreciate it. Not trying to go to heavy this time around. Next batch of arrows I'm going to go with a stiffer spine and heavier tip. The set up I mentioned above has a foc around 15% which is much better than I'm currently running.
Hold on you will be fine??? Don't even know how much weight he is drawing, draw length, IBO of his bow, or arrow length. You need to know more information then just spine and front load. I get pumping up weight but I have shot weak arrows and they don't all fly the same. He is adding 100 plus grains to the front of his arrow. I have shot a ton of different arrows and my bow always shoots better with a stiff shaft compared to a weak. He could be fine but you need to ask more information then just yup throw a 100 plus on the front and let her fly. If he is using a PSE full throttle, pulling 70 pounds and has a 29 or 30 inch draw he will not be fine. A limp noodle will not fly great. I love to see people increase weight and FOC but lets not give out wrong information.
 
I had lots 350spine arrows. Igot the test pack and started shooting. I don't do paper just bareshaft. Some of the weights shot better than others. I found the weight that flew best then bought components to build the hunt arrow. If my 350 spines hadnt worked I would have just bought new arrows and swapped the components over to the new arrows.....HOT MELT
 
Well....I have a 29'' arrow 350spine and my bow was at 70 and I had 100gr brass with a 125 head and it worked... I have dropped draw weight down slowly and hasn't affected anything. I think he be ok.
Dropping weight would technically help because the arrow would become stiffer.
I am glad that it worked for you but there are other factors. The length that you cut your arrows is a big one. I am a 29" draw and use to cut my arrow at 27 inches when I shot mechs but now that I shoot fixed they are 29 and 1/4 inches and that can change a lot in your shaft stiffness. Another factor is the bow that you shoot. When I was shooting a 27" shaft the bow I had had an IBO of 310 compared to my new bow is 345 and a 29 1/2" arrow. Those set ups called for different spinned arrows even though I was still pulling 70 pounds and had a 29" draw. Sorry just want to put out things I came come across. Don't want people to get the wrong information and shoot a super weak shaft and have something happen.
 
When your looking for a head for these make sure if you are going 2 blade to get a THICK 1 PIECE BLADE. Bleeders are cool but get one with some thickness. A lot of these 2 blades are a glue on blade to an adaptor and to call them junk is a little more than they deserve in my opinion. They barely hold up to what a modern recurve will do to them much less a modern compound. Id personally look at the Kudus and Simmons. That convex blade makes a bigger hole than the blade is especially if you flatten that point a bit.

Theres more than a few instances of the tip rolling over on these. Its what led to the 3 blade heads with Trocar type tips back in the day.

If your a short range shooter say less than 30yds theres not much reason to not be slinging a 500gr arrow. The reason the above video stopped shooting at 35yds on the points of impact is because after that is when the rubber starts meeting the road as far as arrow drop. You start getting out past 50 and 3 yds makes a difference with a heavy arrow. If I remember right the point of diminishing returns was somewhere between 600-700 grains as far as penetration.
 
Thanks @Gamover06 for pointing out that different bows set up the same will shoot different. All the info I post on this subject worked for me.... I'm not a pro....just tinker in my backyard. My 350s worked out. I would have rather started 300 but I figured I'd give it a shot before an arrow purchase. When diving over to these high foc don't have a set arrow weight in your head. You'll have to experiment and tune and lots of shooting. It doesn't happen overnight. Find your sweet spot for your bow and build em with hotmelt. If they don't work out you can swap the components to another arrow. If you bareshaft you'll know in the begining of the build if things are right so you won't waste any fletchings
 
Do any of you know where to get heavy brass or steel 100gr. inserts for aluminum XX75's sized 2213? I can easily find heavy inserts for carbon arrows of various inside and outside diameters but its very hard to find anything sized to fit aluminums?
 
Hold on you will be fine??? Don't even know how much weight he is drawing, draw length, IBO of his bow, or arrow length. You need to know more information then just spine and front load. I get pumping up weight but I have shot weak arrows and they don't all fly the same. He is adding 100 plus grains to the front of his arrow. I have shot a ton of different arrows and my bow always shoots better with a stiff shaft compared to a weak. He could be fine but you need to ask more information then just yup throw a 100 plus on the front and let her fly. If he is using a PSE full throttle, pulling 70 pounds and has a 29 or 30 inch draw he will not be fine. A limp noodle will not fly great. I love to see people increase weight and FOC but lets not give out wrong information.
Vertix at 65# and 27.5 inch draw arrows are 27.75in
 
When your looking for a head for these make sure if you are going 2 blade to get a THICK 1 PIECE BLADE. Bleeders are cool but get one with some thickness. A lot of these 2 blades are a glue on blade to an adaptor and to call them junk is a little more than they deserve in my opinion. They barely hold up to what a modern recurve will do to them much less a modern compound. Id personally look at the Kudus and Simmons. That convex blade makes a bigger hole than the blade is especially if you flatten that point a bit.

Theres more than a few instances of the tip rolling over on these. Its what led to the 3 blade heads with Trocar type tips back in the day.

If your a short range shooter say less than 30yds theres not much reason to not be slinging a 500gr arrow. The reason the above video stopped shooting at 35yds on the points of impact is because after that is when the rubber starts meeting the road as far as arrow drop. You start getting out past 50 and 3 yds makes a difference with a heavy arrow. If I remember right the point of diminishing returns was somewhere between 600-700 grains as far as penetration.

I was wondering why he didn’t do 40 or 50 yards. I know when my arrow setup changed my 25-40 yard pin gap changed drastically.

I shoot a 2 pin slider sight. My thought process has always been to shoot top pin out to 30 yards, use pin gap to fill in between 30-40 yards and transfer to bottom pin for 40+. This reasoning is why I am so concerned with trajectory/flat arrow flight. Even just a lighted nock makes a significant difference at 40 yards in my setup. I am going to do some further testing to ensure it is 100% true.


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