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Gun for my son(6 year old).

MA_PAdeerslayer said:
Another shot I’ve come to love....neck shot. Yet to have one walk after that. If it don’t have horns that are going on the wall and it’s getting late or I flat out don’t wanna track or want to get done ASAP and get back on stand for another I’ll shoot her right in the neck. You either hit em or miss em. And if you hit em their dead right there
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This PA 5 pointer was lucky. Neck shot as he stood looking into my blind. Shoulda filled the tag but took a 45’ white pine instead. Most chewy venison I’ve ever eaten haha
 
fbwguy said:
I know shot placement is highly debated, so take this as just my view. I prefer the high shoulder shot placement. Yes you tend to loose some meat, but deer tend to drop not run. No tracking necessary. If you have a quartering away shot it’s even better, less meat damage, I have used this shot if I’m near an area where restrictions to tracking or access are not an option. I live next to federal land where there is no legal access. If the deer jumps the fence your done. So the high shoulder shot for me is the best option. My wife has always used the heart/lung shot with 25/06 120 gr until she had to track a deer without my assistance. She was frustrated and upset at the difficulty of that adventure. Now she has changed her impact aim and killed 4 this year, no tracking or blood trail needed, just patience for the right angle and position of the deer
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I also have a 25-06, great deer caliber.

I would be hesitant to take the high shoulder shot with the loads his son will be using. I'd be afraid the thickest part of the shoulder bone might stop a reduced recoil load, or at least really slow it down. When I hunt with a 22-250, I shoot the neck or bowhunter-shots (shoot around the bone).
 
When I use my 22-250 it’s the same raisins. Neck shots all day. Unless a booner comes out. Then it’s heart and lungs avoiding the bones! Quarter away close leg forward and let it rip!
 
fbwguy said:
My personal feeling about choosing a deer cartridge is this...
Bullet selection is much more important than caliber. You can choose any caliber you like, with felt recoil that’s comfortable for you or your kids, but wrong choice of bullets becomes an issue.
I talked with a gentleman that hunts with a 6.5CM. He was shooting deer and having a horrible time tracking and sometimes finding them. When I asked him what type ammo he was using, he told me Hornady Black, because it was cheap and available. Wrong choice! It is not designed to rapidly expand and dump energy like a hunting bullet. He changed to shooting a soft point interlocking bullet and it was a game changer.
my point being... select the right ammo for the job, it’s cheaper than a new rifle and much more ethical.
Unless u just need an excuse to buy another gun, nothing wrong with that!!!!!
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I couldn’t agree more. Bullet choice is much more important than caliber. The bullet needs to be designed to produce the results you want at an impact velocity you’d expect from the gun you shoot. Bullet composition matched to impact velocity is what determines bullet failure or success for our intended uses.


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Tapeworm said:
I think 7-08 recoil is listed around 20% less than 308


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I don’t fully buy this. They are the same size case and should push like weight bullets to almost the same velocities. Given a equal bullet weight at an equal velocity in an equal weight gun recoil would be the same. 7mm-08 in factory ammo probably favors lighter bullets and that may lead to the 20% less recoil claim but both should be capable of similar recoil.


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sdoyle1 said:
I don’t fully buy this. They are the same size case and should push like weight bullets to almost the same velocities. Given a equal bullet weight at an equal velocity in an equal weight gun recoil would be the same. 7mm-08 in factory ammo probably favors lighter bullets and that may lead to the 20% less recoil claim but both should be capable of similar recoil.


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Agreed! I have a 260 Remington and a 7mm-08. Both push a 140 gr pill with the exact same felt recoil. Same parent case...308 Win
 
sdoyle1 said:
I don’t fully buy this. They are the same size case and should push like weight bullets to almost the same velocities. Given a equal bullet weight at an equal velocity in an equal weight gun recoil would be the same. 7mm-08 in factory ammo probably favors lighter bullets and that may lead to the 20% less recoil claim but both should be capable of similar recoil.


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That 20% number is something from a book I read back in the 1980’s

Not sure about people trying to shoot equal weights at equal velocities from different calibers

I just now googled it and found a comparison that uses factory ammo

Case capacity is slightly less (about 7%) for 7mm-08=52.2gr vs 308=56gr

This comparison of 5 rounds of each caliber out of a 7lb rifle shows an average of 22.5% less

I’m sure the weight and powder amounts are the majority of reasons

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Tapeworm said:
That 20% number is something from a book I read back in the 1980’s

Not sure about people trying to shoot equal weights at equal velocities from different calibers

I just now googled it and found a comparison that uses factory ammo

Case capacity is slightly less (about 7%) for 7mm-08=52.2gr vs 308=56gr

This comparison of 5 rounds of each caliber out of a 7lb rifle shows an average of 22.5% less

I’m sure the weight and powder amounts are the majority of reasons

cdc0047674954f494e34599b130c3e72.png

c30f2227129584eb7527b62ffc69d1d5.png

30b6d2d92f1133be39745968f8b12a06.png



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I agree that most likely factory loadings can produce close to the 20% reduction. I was curious about this so I pulled them both up on my quickload software. 308 shows 56 gr h20 capacity and 7-08 shows 55. There is more variance than this between cases of the same lot that I’ve measured not even considering different brass manufacturers. Saami specs show 62000 psi for the 308 and 60200 for the 7-08. Even with the reduced pressure, although they both should be capable of the same pressures, quickload showed about 50-60 fps advantage to the 308 with a 150 bullet. This should make the recoil difference negligible. These two cartridges are so close to ballistic equals that they should have the same potential for recoil. I feel the 20 percent could be somewhat correct when addressing hunting ammo as you can shoot lighter bullets in 7-08 while still using a bullet targeted for big game.


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In line with the velocity difference noted above:

Chuck Hawks lists:
7mm-08, 150 @ 2750, 7.5lb rifle, 13.9 ft-lb recoil
.308 Win, 150 @ 2800, 7.5lb rifle, 15.8 ft-lb

I don’t know how they come up with those numbers though.
 
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I’ve shot both out of the same rifle. Savage axis in 7.08 and 308. Felt recoil wise you can’t really feel a difference personally. However I also hunt often with a tikka t3 lite chambered in 300 Winchester short mag. Recoil doesn’t bother me. My wife has shot both, 5-5 120 pounds and she thought it was the same gun. No idea one was 7.08 amd one was 308. Can’t get her to squeeze the trigger on the 300wsm tho. I know she could handle it. It just sounds “big”
 
They all kill and all kick less than my 12G turkey loads do so I enjoy them all

My daughter prefers a couple of my 7-08s to any of my 308s


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I would think the recoil difference is to do with bore diameter using recoil calculator changing the bore size effects the number even when everything else stays the same. I can only assume the gasses leave the barrel faster with a larger bore. Recoil energy is just a piece of the puzzle to what a shooter feels when their rifle goes off.
 
Tapeworm said:
That is a very correct statement


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I was reading a thing online tapeworm...shooting my 31/2” loads from my 12ga pump generates more recoil than a .458 and .480 elephant gun. Of course the elephant gun weighs 11 pounds but still. Crazy we shoot such harsh loads at such a small bird haha
 
Plebe said:
Chuck Hawks lists:
7mm-08, 150 @ 2750, 7.5lb rifle, 13.9 ft-lb recoil
.308 Win, 150 @ 2800, 7.5lb rifle, 15.8 ft-lb

I don’t know how they come up with those numbers though.
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Same case size, operating at the same pressure, and the same bullet weight. Multiplying by the larger surface area of the 308 equals greater force on the bullet. Therefore greater velocity of the 308.
 
brydan said:
Same case size, operating at the same pressure, and the same bullet weight. Multiplying by the larger surface area of the 308 equals greater force on the bullet. Therefore greater velocity of the 308.
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I understand the velocity difference. They become more efficient as the bore size increases. That’s definitely more recoil difference than I’d expect though.


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MA_PAdeerslayer said:
I was reading a thing online tapeworm...shooting my 31/2” loads from my 12ga pump generates more recoil than a .458 and .480 elephant gun. Of course the elephant gun weighs 11 pounds but still. Crazy we shoot such harsh loads at such a small bird haha
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Yep

And a custom shotgun gunsmith/ turkey hunter said the recoil is ridiculous but he still shoots a 3.5” cuz nobody has made a 4” yet


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