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Guns that Won’t Group

Wirrex

Moderator
Staff member
SH Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
2,246
Location
Wisconsin
Winchester Model 70
ultimate shadow 30-06 ss
Zeiss conquest 4.5x14x44
Bell and carlson medalist stock
Dnz scope mount


Has anyone come across a gun that simply won’t shoot factory ammo? An Idaho mule deer hunt has me at it again.

I have been trying to get my only rifle to put a group together. I have tried around 7 different weights and varieties of ammunition with the best 3 shot group of about 3” at 100yds with 165gn Hornady Superformance. That’s waiting to completely cool down between each shot.

I can shoot friends rifles well under 1moa. I am starting to wonder if my scope is bad. I don’t have another scope to try

Has anyone else run into this?
 
Did you try heavier and lighter grain bullets? DNZ secure and loctite'd down? I have a ton of 3006 ammo and if you wanna try something I have let me know and ill mail you 5 of each kind to get you figured out.
 
YES!!

I had a Remington 700 ADL chambered in 7mm mag that didn't group...it patterned.

Tried every box of factory loads I could find. Mounted a different scope. Floated the barrel. Had a bigger, beefier buddy shoot it just in case it was me being a wuss. I felt like I was going crazy.

Finally sold it and it was the biggest relief. I've never had a rifle since that one that I couldn't shoot reasonably well. I've never been a crack shot, but I've always been on the right side of the ball curve.
 
I have a 270 that would not group and tried all kinds of ammo. First thing that a friend recommended was replace the trigger to a timney trigger. That helped a lot and second I cleaned the barrel with a copper cleaner (Shooters). Now that rifle groups really well and I just stick with winchester ammo and no issues.
 
Did you try heavier and lighter grain bullets? DNZ secure and loctite'd down? I have a ton of 3006 ammo and if you wanna try something I have let me know and ill mail you 5 of each kind to get you figured out.

I have tried 150, 165, 168, 180 so far.

Everything is loctited down.

I’m going to try some more this weekend. I may hit ya up.

Thanks
 
YES!!

I had a Remington 700 ADL chambered in 7mm mag that didn't group...it patterned.

Tried every box of factory loads I could find. Mounted a different scope. Floated the barrel. Had a bigger, beefier buddy shoot it just in case it was me being a wuss. I felt like I was going crazy.

Finally sold it and it was the biggest relief. I've never had a rifle since that one that I couldn't shoot reasonably well. I've never been a crack shot, but I've always been on the right side of the ball curve.

This is how I feel it’s going to end up...
 
Years ago I bought my 3006 savage from a friend that couldn't get it to group. I messed with it lapped the scope rings in. Still wouldn't group. I ended up building a jig to hold it 100% from moving and it grouped 3 shots. So I knew the gun was doing its part. I put a new scope on and it would group. Fast forward 60 rounds and it was out to lunch again. Scope was tight so back in the jig it went. Gun still grouped. Puzzled I took it up to a old one man gun shop and learned the scope was junk. He told me the shock the gun was putting on the scope was destroying them knocking one of the lenses loose. Anyway long story long I put a bushnell scope on he recommended and it's been great ever since. It likes ppu 165 grain.

I'd start off with a jig. Use a bore sight to line up on target and secure it so it can't move between shots. See if the gun is on. Might need a large target incase it's spinning the bullet different from the bore sight.
 
Hows the crown on it look? That B&C stock glass or pillar bedded? Get it glass bedded if not. barrel should be free floated OEM on that configuration, run a piece of 100grit underneath it to make sure.

Put a leupold VXII on it and call it good.
 
Hows the crown on it look? That B&C stock glass or pillar bedded? Get it glass bedded if not. barrel should be free floated OEM on that configuration, run a piece of 100grit underneath it to make sure.

Put a leupold VXII on it and call it good.
That was my thinking, you'll be chasing your tail if either are at fault
 
Try measuring the "lands" (distance bullet has to travel before coming in contact with the beginning of the rifling grooves in the barrel). Google it to find out how. If bullet has to jump too far of a distance then it can play havoc on groupings. If you do your own reloading then you can adjust this (carefully) and find out what your gun likes best.
 
Try measuring the "lands" (distance bullet has to travel before coming in contact with the beginning of the rifling grooves in the barrel). Google it to find out how. If bullet has to jump too far of a distance then it can play havoc on groupings. If you do your own reloading then you can adjust this (carefully) and find out what your gun likes best.
Won't help if your using factory ammo but yes it can make a tremendous difference if your home loading
 
scopes that look like they are in working order, but arent can be frustrating like this. Check the twist rate to help select ammo. you have a dnz so i doubt if it is (locktite on) the problem. I did have one problem with a savage ( i know yours is winchester) and a bell and carlson stock had the lug out of place (oversized lug). Looked tight, but rifle would not group. That rifle would also had a subtle shift in the gap between the barrel and the stock after shooting. Yet when i shook the rifle nothing moved. Triggers can help, but may not address the issue. Redid the front lug and all was good.
 
I would look at the crown, and eliminate any copper fouling in barrel and carbon build up in chamber. Also, is the barrel free floated? Torque on action bolts can also be an issue. Just out of curiosity, where is your factory ammo purchased? Not bashing any particular store, but when I was Gunsmithing, I had a gentleman bring me a Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm Rem Mag that wouldn't group no matter what ammo he shot. All his ammo was from a local box store(unnamed, but in every town). A lot of ammo that is sold to these box stores are not marked seconds, BUT is isn't necessarily meeting the QC grade at the factory. There is a reason that ammo is cheaper at these stores. I verified that his gun shot under 1" groups with factory ammo from a local gunshop and 4" groups from box store ammo of the same brand and weight. Not saying this is the case for you, but worth looking at.
 
Yup. Heavy recoil rifles exacerbate the problem too. Handloading can usually cheer up a rifle that aint happy with factory ammo. But it sure is nice to have a hammer that is GTG as is..
 
Years ago I bought my 3006 savage from a friend that couldn't get it to group. I messed with it lapped the scope rings in. Still wouldn't group. I ended up building a jig to hold it 100% from moving and it grouped 3 shots. So I knew the gun was doing its part. I put a new scope on and it would group. Fast forward 60 rounds and it was out to lunch again. Scope was tight so back in the jig it went. Gun still grouped. Puzzled I took it up to a old one man gun shop and learned the scope was junk. He told me the shock the gun was putting on the scope was destroying them knocking one of the lenses loose. Anyway long story long I put a bushnell scope on he recommended and it's been great ever since. It likes ppu 165 grain.

I'd start off with a jig. Use a bore sight to line up on target and secure it so it can't move between shots. See if the gun is on. Might need a large target incase it's spinning the bullet different from the bore sight.
yup ran into the scope issue once myself. Drive you nuts. but it feels like heaven when you change out the scope and you are back in the game.
 
I just can't justify babying and tinkering with a rifle when there are hundreds of thousands of them out there that will eat Core-Lokts and spit them out in 2" or better groups at 100 yards all day. I had a $100 .243 that would put 80 grain winchesters in a cloverleaf at that distance, with no muss or fuss.

If a gun doesn't shoot, I cut my losses and run.
 
I would look at the crown, and eliminate any copper fouling in barrel and carbon build up in chamber. Also, is the barrel free floated? Torque on action bolts can also be an issue. Just out of curiosity, where is your factory ammo purchased? Not bashing any particular store, but when I was Gunsmithing, I had a gentleman bring me a Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm Rem Mag that wouldn't group no matter what ammo he shot. All his ammo was from a local box store(unnamed, but in every town). A lot of ammo that is sold to these box stores are not marked seconds, BUT is isn't necessarily meeting the QC grade at the factory. There is a reason that ammo is cheaper at these stores. I verified that his gun shot under 1" groups with factory ammo from a local gunshop and 4" groups from box store ammo of the same brand and weight. Not saying this is the case for you, but worth looking at.
Thats funny. The WORST gun I ever owned was a weatherby vanguard in 7mm rem mag. IT definitely wasnt the ammo, but that thing shot like absolute CRAP.
 
I just can't justify babying and tinkering with a rifle when there are hundreds of thousands of them out there that will eat Core-Lokts and spit them out in 2" or better groups at 100 yards all day. I had a $100 .243 that would put 80 grain winchesters in a cloverleaf at that distance, with no muss or fuss.

If a gun doesn't shoot, I cut my losses and run.
So true, in all points.
 
I just can't justify babying and tinkering with a rifle when there are hundreds of thousands of them out there that will eat Core-Lokts and spit them out in 2" or better groups at 100 yards all day. I had a $100 .243 that would put 80 grain winchesters in a cloverleaf at that distance, with no muss or fuss.

If a gun doesn't shoot, I cut my losses and run.
Yup, I had a remington 788 in 30-30 that was a SERIOUS tack driver. PRobably the ugliest gun ever made, but man that thing would shoot corelock like federal gold ultra match. dime sized groups at 100 without even trying.. IT did carry like a club though.
 
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