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Heavy arrow bone breaking results on large deer

dougell said:
Last year my son grunted in a a big 4.5+ year old buck.He shot it broadside at 25 yards with a 425gr goldtip XT at 290fps and a 100gr black hornet.At the shot,the buck mule kicked and immediately crashed over a steep ledge,out of sight.He immediately texted me,saying he just killed a slammer.I was about 100 yards away and heard the telltale crack of heavy bone being hit.I went down and he directed me to where the buck was standing.A short search turned up his arrow sticking strait up and down.The BH tip was bent badly and was full of hait.Not a drop of blood was on the shaft.The arrow literally bounced off the shoulder of that deer and he's shooting 70# at 27 1/2" with a perfectly tuned bow.I knew the buck wasn't even hurt and we saw him chasing a doe the next sunday and he wasn't even limping.

There's no reason to shoot a deer in the shoulder.I'd really have to see good picture to believe that people get through it.I'm not talking about the scapula but there's no reason to hit that either.In 90+ percent of cases,if you hit the shoulder,you missed.
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This buck moved on the shot, 550 gr arrow with 275 gr up front for 22%foc. Severed his humorous, and hit the front of his left lung and heart. He fell over about 100 yards away from where I shot him.
 

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I'm seeing pictures of deer shot through the scapula.Getting through the scapula isn't an issue but in the vast majority of cases,a hit in the scapula misses the vitals because most of the scapula sits above them.The exception would be a shot through the scapula taking out the spine or one at a very steep downward angle.It hit through the humerous is too far forward to hit vitals the majority of the time,unless the deer is quartering to you.I've had the opportunity to kill a lot of deer over the past 40 years and only ever hit a deer in the shoulder one time.I won't dispute that a heavy arrow with plenty of foc and a single bevel head will penetrate better.That's simple physics and that's what I would use if I were hunting pigs over a feeder at 15 yards.For the style of hunting I do for deer,it's not the best choice for me.
 
Don’t have a pic of the split bone below the scapula but that’s where it hit but the single bevel split right through it At the end of the day shot what you want and I’ll do the same.
 
Probably a 275 lb deer if not more, shattered the offside humerus with arrow laying on the ground. You can see the blood on the offside leg in the pic just below where the arrow exited. 70# 30" draw 430 grain arrow, blades need sharpened and its good to go again. IMO Proper arrow flight trumps all else in penetration.
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dougell said:
I'm seeing pictures of deer shot through the scapula.Getting through the scapula isn't an issue but in the vast majority of cases,a hit in the scapula misses the vitals because most of the scapula sits above them.The exception would be a shot through the scapula taking out the spine or one at a very steep downward angle.It hit through the humerous is too far forward to hit vitals the majority of the time,unless the deer is quartering to you.I've had the opportunity to kill a lot of deer over the past 40 years and only ever hit a deer in the shoulder one time.I won't dispute that a heavy arrow with plenty of foc and a single bevel head will penetrate better.That's simple physics and that's what I would use if I were hunting pigs over a feeder at 15 yards.For the style of hunting I do for deer,it's not the best choice for me.
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You said two things:

- there's no reason to shoot a deer in the shoulder. Since you're now trying to get specific, define shoulder, not using the statement "not the scapula".

- If you hit a deer in the "shoulder", 90% of the time you missed. Again, What evidence do you have to support this statement.

Then you're adding that getting through the scapula is easy, you want to see something getting through the humerus. There's plenty of documented cases of arrows going through deer humerus.


The shoulder is technically defined as the joint comprised of the scapula and humerus (add the collar bone for us apes). In general terms, most hunters define the shoulder as this joint, and all the accompanying soft tissue/muscle/skin attached to it. Saying that aiming and hitting one of these things is "missing" is not the same as aiming and hitting the other.

The general sense I get is that your opinion is if you're aiming far enough forward to hit either the scapula or humerus, you're not making an effective shot. In many cases, that could be true. But not all. But if you're implying that the best place to hit a deer is fully behind the entire structure of the shoulder (bone/muscle/skin), I'd like to know what evidence you have to support that statement.
 
I define the shoulder as the humerous and the shoulder blade as the scapula.The scapula is easy to go through but again,almost the entire scapula sits above the vitals with the spine running between both scapulas.The reason a high shoulder shot will drop a deer in it's tracks is because it disrupts the central nervous system.The humerous sits in front of the lungsOn a broadside deer,if you hit any of the shoulder,you missed the vitals over 90% of the time.Again,on a steep angle or a quartering to shot,that can change but I just pass on those shots.

With the right arrow/BH and enough momentum you can get through the humerous but it's an extremely rare shot to even take.

Any accurate picture of a deer's anatomy is sufficient evidence that the best place to shoot a deer is through the center of the lungs,which is through the ribs behind teh humerous and below the scapula.That's not even debatable.
 

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I did a good bit of reading over the last couple years. And why I think I’ll like the heavy arrow/high FOC is for when things go wrong. A great example is the recent buck THP got with heavy arrows. Those guys are assumed great shots and won’t take unethical shots. (Again, making an armchair judgment based on nothing deeper that some YouTube videos.). And that buck rolled and dropped and the heavy arrow clipped a small branch right before the deer. Reply Deer went 75 yards. No blood. If they’d been shooting a lighter arrow, or an expandable BH. Who knows what might have happened.

Heavy arrows are for when it goes wrong.

When I got my bow a couple few years back they shop set me up with some awesome….light/heavy enough….arrows. And that bow is set up great for those arrows. I’m hunting NC and a long shot around here…on public is 30 yards plus the drop from the stand, or the hypotenuse for the nerdy folk. I’ve got 2 bows. One will be the hot and fast and the other heavy and slow.

I’ll always have “the other one” when I need it probably. HaHaha..


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I’ll always have “the other one” when I need it probably. HaHaha..

Yep,that's a 50/50 chance.Scientifically speaking,there is no question that a heavier arrow with more FOC And a sturdy 2 bladed BH will out penetrate every other combo.I strive for 100% penetration every time and in 40 years,I've had complete penetration over 99% of the time.However,there's really no need to plan on hitting heavy bones because that's not where the vitals are.There's also no need to use a big mechanical because you might hit guts.People overthink this way too much.I want a BH that will penetrate completely,stay together and be razor sharp.That isn't hard to achieve with any good fixed head made from steel and any arrow that isn't close to ibo numbers.Where I hunt a 40 yard shot is rare but a 30 yard shot isn't.I want an arrow that will allow me to not have to guess up to 30 yards and still stick in the dirt on the other side of the deer.
 
My setup is a 530 ish grain arrow total I have 225 up front with a single bevel cutthroat and brass incerts. It's not a super heavy setup but it is about 17.5 % foc. I feel like it's good middle ground. While this might now be a big deer it's a healthy sized hog. Total penetration from impact to tip of the nose was roughly 44 inches although it wasnt a straight line. The arrow entered in front of the back left hip. It hit gut, liver, back lobe of the left lung, heart, front lobe of right lung, broke 3 ribs, split the ball joint in the front right shoulder, deflected back into the body, cut 1 more rib, went along the trakia, broke the left jaw, knocked out 2 teeth, and stopped a few inches outside the mouth. The arrow broke somewhere in the neck. Needless to say she didnt go far. About 15 yards. Shot was taken at 18 yardScreenshot_20210805-203030_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210805-203027_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210805-203022_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210805-203018_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210805-203014_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210805-203005_Gallery.jpg
 
Also you can see on the heart the binding that a single bevel can do from twisting the tissue around the head.
 
Hawgnuts57 said:
My setup is a 530 ish grain arrow total I have 225 up front with a single bevel cutthroat and brass incerts. It's not a super heavy setup but it is about 17.5 % foc. I feel like it's good middle ground. While this might now be a big deer it's a healthy sized hog. Total penetration from impact to tip of the nose was roughly 44 inches although it wasnt a straight line. The arrow entered in front of the back left hip. It hit gut, liver, back lobe of the left lung, heart, front lobe of right lung, broke 3 ribs, split the ball joint in the front right shoulder, deflected back into the body, cut 1 more rib, went along the trakia, broke the left jaw, knocked out 2 teeth, and stopped a few inches outside the mouth. The arrow broke somewhere in the neck. Needless to say she didnt go far. About 15 yards. Shot was taken at 18 yardView attachment 50522View attachment 50523View attachment 50524View attachment 50525View attachment 50526View attachment 50527
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Hawgnuts57 said:
She had no clue. The arrow made no noise when it hit the other pigs stuck around a few seconds till she fell over. I could see the arrow sticking out her mouth
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Awesome!.... I had similar with a bunch of does....not a length wise pass thru but there was a group and the others in the group didn't run off and I could have shot at another if I chose too.

What poundage is ur bow? I'm much heavier but at around 55 pound draw weight
 
Weldabeast said:
Awesome!.... I had similar with a bunch of does....not a length wise pass thru but there was a group and the others in the group didn't run off and I could have shot at another if I chose too.

What poundage is ur bow? I'm much heavier but at around 55 pound draw weight
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72 lbs shooting at 275 fps
 
I wasnt going for a length wise pass through. I aimed for the off side shoulder which I was obviously spot on with that just ended up with that crazy deflection. I was super impressed at the broken jaw after 4 ribs a ball joint and 40# inches of penetration
 
I had a similar result with similar arrow weight 2 seasons ago....full length pass thru on a deer very similar to ur skewered pig.....just like u ....36+ inches of penetration.... in the exit and exit out the front....I got all the main cables in the neck/throat but it didn't exit out the face :oops:
 
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