I'm confused about proper draw technique between compound and trad

[HuumanCreed]

Still an trad infant after reincarnating from a compound life. I noticed I'm still carrying over some mechanic in my form. When I used to draw compound, it was usually my bow hand a little higher than target, and pulling back to anchor and lowering to target was one motion; elbow a little high. This is all self-taught via videos online and this was what I found most comfortable.

What I see from trad drawing is you pull straight back with the bow hand always center to target. Using all back tension. This is hard even on 30lbs because I notice my elbow is wobbly. Granted I expect to be better once I built up the different muscle memories. But is their a basic principle that I'm missing in why the draw form is different? Is it just the fact that there is no release so your hand/finger rotation are different? I keep hearing that drawing trad is like trying to elbow someone off your back. Why dont compound user use that principle if it seem to be the prefer method for trad?

I noticed I am drawing the trad bow like a compound bow instinctively unless I actively try not to. Should I really focus on stopping this or if I found my comfort style, that I can use it even if its not the 'proper' way to draw?

 

[Flyerzfan10]

Push pull. In other words. My draw sequence is to start by picking my spot (where I want the arrow to go). I focus on that spot and as I lift the bow i'm pushing away with my bow hand as I'm drawing with my string hand all in one fluid motion. Some cant the bow some don't. I just let my bow hand go where it goes naturally. I come to anchor and release. I shoot instictively.

 

[will4554]

Back tension is back tension, and lots of compound shooters use it. There's a lot of stuff you can get away with on a compound with a release that you cannot with trad. I made something similar to a draw coach that I saw in an Arne Moe video. It's just a loop of webbing on a cable cross, it lets me work on a rotational draw without using a bow. The feeling is very different than when I was drawing with a lot of bicep.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I like to look at it from the perspective of what is best for my style of hunting. 99.9% of the time, I'm in a tree and shooting at whitetails. Some shooters (Fred Asbel) advocate a swing draw, but IMO, that is not a good technique for whitetails from a tree.

I prefer to get my bow arm up and pointed towards the target before I do anything else. That does 2 things for me. It requires less movement in the presence of game and it allows me to better feel that my bow has 100% clearance of the tree, limbs, or other obstructions.

Trad shooters can't hold at full draw for extended time like compound shooters can. We are generally drawing and releasing within a couple of seconds. Most of our movement occurs when the critter is in our lap. The other benefit from having a set bow arm before the draw is it insures to me that my bow is free and clear of any branches or other interference. If the bow is drawn as the bow is put into position, there is a chance that the limb tip can make contact as they return to the brace position during the shot. That exact thing happened to me years ago. When my bow was drawn, the top limb tip was flexed back and away from a branch in the tree...my bow felt free and clear of interference. But as I released and the limbs came forward, I felt a little "bump" and I made a bad hit. That "bump" I felt was my top limb tip making contact with a tree branch. If I would have had the bow in the "shot position" prior to drawing, I would have felt that my limb tip was making contact with the tree. I like to have as much cover around my position as possible so I often have branches that could interfere with my bow. I don't cant my bow for the same reasons. I have better bow clearance of the tree trunk with a vertical bow.

Otherwise, my draw sequence is push the bow toward the target as I pull the draw hand to anchor (I hook the string in my 1st finger joint). The path of my elbow seems to work best if I'm drawing straight back from what the arc of the arrow will be. That keeps each limb being drawn with the same force. Try this visual... Do a 25% draw with the bow at your waist and notice how you can vary the pressure you place on each limb. You can vary that pressure by how you push on the handle, or your finder position on the string, and also by the path/position of your elbow. Ideally, I want each limb being drawn with the same ratio (top limb to bottom limb ratio) as when the bow is at brace. If I put more pressure on one limb over the other, the bow will shoot "out of balance".

And never forget about back tension. Doesn't matter if it's trad or compounds, you gotta draw with back tension and maintain that tension until the arrow is gone from the bow. Proper back tension will cure plucking, too.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Back tension is back tension, and lots of compound shooters use it. There's a lot of stuff you can get away with on a compound with a release that you cannot with trad. I made something similar to a draw coach that I saw in an Arne Moe video. It's just a loop of webbing on a cable cross, it lets me work on a rotational draw without using a bow. The feeling is very different than when I was drawing with a lot of bicep.

Is that anything like the Astra Shot Trainer? It's a device that basically allows you to draw and train your back muscles to draw the bow. You can also safely do a simulated dry-fire with it which helps with follow thru. I have one and I think it's a great tool for new and seasoned shooters. You can basically work out with your bow in your living room.

 

[milunchbox]

If you are just getting into trad shooting, what really helped me is the ROOTS from the push archery center of knowledge. Its pricey but it does help a ton.

 

[mattpsu1]

If you are just getting into trad shooting, what really helped me is the ROOTS from the push archery center of knowledge. Its pricey but it does help a ton.

I had purchased the Shot IQ course from Joel Turner a few years ago and recently the Solid Archery Mechanics course from Tom Clum. Both have helped me quite a bit along the way. I’m very interested in the Roots as well and will probably purchase that one next. As stated previously, they are pricey. But they do offer a 4 month payment plan.

 

[kbetts]

Push/pull is it. No way you should be shaking with 30#’s. Can’t lock the elbow.

Not sure how big of a guy you are, but for reference, I’m only 140# and routinely shoot 60# trad bows. Now, this is with years of muscle memory. Still, it should not be a struggle.

 

[HuumanCreed]

Its not a struggle with the weight personally. its keeping the form as I draw due to pulling straight back. I feel like i'm actually pulling the string away from me then back to me in an arc path. I dont feel this pulling a compound, maybe because my palm is facing away from my face. With my finger tab, i feel like its more of a condensing of my elbow.

 

[GCTerpfan]

I've never shot a compound but, I don't think that there should be a huge difference between the two in how you draw the bow. Watch this excerpt from the Solid Archery Mechanics program, it doesn't go into detail about how to draw but, you can see Tom draw repeatedly. It might give you some ideas on what you are doing differently.

 

[JoyRyd]

 

[Bowmanmike]

Don't just copy what works for others. You should draw in a way that is comfortable to you. There are many ways to reach full draw and everyone's body mechanics are a little different. Pulling back a 30# bow should be a piece of cake. Check out archery strong,that guy talks a lot about individual body mechanics. I just listened to a podcast today that had him on.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

I like to look at it from the perspective of what is best for my style of hunting. 99.9% of the time, I'm in a tree and shooting at whitetails. Some shooters (Fred Asbel) advocate a swing draw, but IMO, that is not a good technique for whitetails from a tree.

I prefer to get my bow arm up and pointed towards the target before I do anything else. That does 2 things for me. It requires less movement in the presence of game. Trad shooters can't hold at full draw for extended time like compound shooters can. We are generally drawing and releasing within a couple of seconds. Most of our movement occurs when the critter is in our lap. The other benefit from having a set bow arm before the draw is it insures to me that my bow is free and clear of any branches or other interference. If the bow is drawn as the bow is put Ito position, there is a chance that the limb tip can make contact as they return to the brace position during the shot. That exact thing happened to me years ago. When my bow was drawn, the top limb tip was flexed back and away from a branch in the tree...my bow felt free and clear of interference. But as I released and the limbs came forward, I felt a little "bump" and I made a bad hit. That "bump" I felt was my top limb tip making contact with a tree branch. If I would have had the bow in the "shot position" prior to drawing, I would have felt that my limb tip was making contact with the tree. I like to have as much cover around my position as possible so I often have branches that could interfere with my bow. I don't cant my bow for the same reasons. I have better bow clearance of the tree trunk with a vertical bow.

Otherwise, my draw sequence is push the bow toward the target as I pull the draw hand to anchor (I hook the string in my 1st finger joint). The path of my elbow seems to work best if I'm drawing straight back from what the arc of the arrow will be. That keeps each limb being drawn with the same force. Try this visual... Do a 25% draw with the bow at your waist and notice how you can vary the pressure you place on each limb. You can vary that pressure by how you push on the handle, or your finder position on the string, and also by the path/position of your elbow. Ideally, I want each limb being drawn with the same ratio (top limb to bottom limb ratio) as when the bow is at brace. If I put more pressure on one limb over the other, the bow will shoot "out of balance".

And never forget about back tension. Doesn't matter if it's trad or compounds, you gotta draw with back tension and maintain that tension until the arrow is gone from the bow. Proper back tension will cure picking, too.

Very good explanation

 

[HuumanCreed]

I like to look at it from the perspective of what is best for my style of hunting. 99.9% of the time, I'm in a tree and shooting at whitetails. Some shooters (Fred Asbel) advocate a swing draw, but IMO, that is not a good technique for whitetails from a tree.

I prefer to get my bow arm up and pointed towards the target before I do anything else. That does 2 things for me. It requires less movement in the presence of game. Trad shooters can't hold at full draw for extended time like compound shooters can. We are generally drawing and releasing within a couple of seconds. Most of our movement occurs when the critter is in our lap. The other benefit from having a set bow arm before the draw is it insures to me that my bow is free and clear of any branches or other interference. If the bow is drawn as the bow is put Ito position, there is a chance that the limb tip can make contact as they return to the brace position during the shot. That exact thing happened to me years ago. When my bow was drawn, the top limb tip was flexed back and away from a branch in the tree...my bow felt free and clear of interference. But as I released and the limbs came forward, I felt a little "bump" and I made a bad hit. That "bump" I felt was my top limb tip making contact with a tree branch. If I would have had the bow in the "shot position" prior to drawing, I would have felt that my limb tip was making contact with the tree. I like to have as much cover around my position as possible so I often have branches that could interfere with my bow. I don't cant my bow for the same reasons. I have better bow clearance of the tree trunk with a vertical bow.

Otherwise, my draw sequence is push the bow toward the target as I pull the draw hand to anchor (I hook the string in my 1st finger joint). The path of my elbow seems to work best if I'm drawing straight back from what the arc of the arrow will be. That keeps each limb being drawn with the same force. Try this visual... Do a 25% draw with the bow at your waist and notice how you can vary the pressure you place on each limb. You can vary that pressure by how you push on the handle, or your finder position on the string, and also by the path/position of your elbow. Ideally, I want each limb being drawn with the same ratio (top limb to bottom limb ratio) as when the bow is at brace. If I put more pressure on one limb over the other, the bow will shoot "out of balance".

And never forget about back tension. Doesn't matter if it's trad or compounds, you gotta draw with back tension and maintain that tension until the arrow is gone from the bow. Proper back tension will cure picking, too.

That's great advices. I sometime forget that nothing work 100% for 100% of people. That everything can varies especially when you add variables like situations and the fact that I'm hanging from a tree! I have yet to shot trad out of a saddle so what works on ground might not work in tree like you said. But I do love how passionate people are when it come to archery. Right now I'm actually learning about the big debate about which side the arrow should be on, Shadversity VS the world! Very interesting. I'm left handed, make me want to try getting a right hand bow just to test it out.

 

[Heydeerman]

What Tom says up there...

A good friend of mine died last year from covid. If you could see him shoot I would have told you don’t do anything he does. I can’t even imitate how Danny shot. He killed a bunch of critters with his bow and arras. It worked for him and he didn’t care how it looked. RIP Danny.

 

[HuumanCreed]

What Tom says up there...

A good friend of mine died last year from covid. If you could see him shoot I would have told you don’t do anything he does. I can’t even imitate how Danny shot. He killed a bunch of critters with his bow and arras. It worked for him and he didn’t care how it looked. RIP Danny.

Sorry for your lost. RIP Danny.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

Too many years of abusing my body has left my old self with some shoulder problems. In fact, I have enough of a shoulder problem I have had trouble in the past drawing my compound as my shoulder starts to lock up during the draw cycle if I'm not careful about the path my elbow takes while drawing. Bottom line is I was concerned about my ability to draw a traditional bow with that whole thing going on. In reality what I found was that because of where the draw weight peaks occur I actually have an easier time drawing the traditional bow that I do the compound. My shoulder catch occurs early in the motion where the compound loading is at a maximum. When drawing the longbow I'm well past that point before I'm drawing any real weight.

 

[will4554]

Is that anything like the Astra Shot Trainer? It's a device that basically allows you to draw and train your back muscles to draw the bow. You can also safely do a simulated dry-fire with it which helps with follow thru. I have one and I think it's a great tool for new and seasoned shooters. You can basically work out with your bow in your living room.

That's the name of it. The same concept, I just don't have a bow to hold. It has been a huge help to me.

 

[JoyRyd]

I noticed I am drawing the trad bow like a compound bow instinctively unless I actively try not to. Should I really focus on stopping this or if I found my comfort style, that I can use it even if its not the 'proper' way to draw?

@HuumanCreed I have been shooting Trad bows since I was 12......puts me over 40 years now. It seems that I have changed my draw "process" more than my underwear (daily for the smart A$$s out there ). But, the one thing that has not changed is the bone structure in my face. And, that is what controls the anchor, setup, aim and release! I would say....who cares how you draw the bow??? Just make sure once you get it back, you are hitting a consistent anchor. The entire shot starts there! All the physics of proper release....arrow flight.....spine.....FOC are based on a CONSISTANT RELEASE! In summary....Draw the damn thing, then the business of getting busy starts!

Most important is that you are having fun with it!! Good luck my friend. Trust me....don't over think it! And be careful who you listen to for advice (namely me!)

 

[raisins]

Best thing I did as a recurve shooter was to take advice from Olympic and competition barebow shooting resources.

Here's an example.

https://www.onlinearcheryacademy.com/recurve-archery-technique-full-draw/

When I mostly switched back to a compound, I shot very similar to Olympic recurve form and my compound shooting was much better. I think it is largely a myth that compound and recurve form is very different or that trad shooters have their own thing (aka Fred Asbell style).