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In defense of my flipper flappers

mermatt83

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
48
I spend a good amount of time watching hunting content and thinking about ways to improve as a bow hunter. Like many, many ethical hunters, I spend plenty of that time trying to optimize quick deer deaths and the highest recovery chances that I can achieve. So, often when watching ranch fairy videos and The Hunting Public videos, I find myself feeling guilty for shooting mechanical heads (grim reapers) and "non adult" arrows. The thing is, I used to shoot sharp fixed heads. They weren't heavy and I didn't have a high FOC but still, almost all my shots were complete pass throughs. I had a hard time blood trailing many, many deer with that set up.
So, here's my defense of my flipper flappers. I don't currently have a network of hunting buddies who I could ask to help me track. I have a family and my hunting time is limited and I want to avoid needing hours and hours to search for a blood trail. I know that with mechanicals, everything is great until it isn't, however, since I switched, things have gotten much easier for me. For one thing, I don't tend to get complete pass throughs, and seeing my arrow partially sticking out really helps me feel confident on shot placement and likelihood of quick death. Most importantly, every deer has left an amazing blood trail that I have been able to follow alone, easily, and every deer I've shot so far with mechanicals (I think it's 7 or 8) has been recovered and has died quickly.
All this is me just working through that, while I have no doubt that a fixed, single bevel, razor sharp 250 gr head with 22% FOC, is the most ideal set up to maximize death and minimize deflection, for me and with my particular set of circumstances, the calculus seems to point to mechanicals being a better choice for now. I've been so impressed by my reapers (fatal steel 125s). I sharpen them to pretty damn sharp. They've yet to be damaged in any way, and I've been able to reuse them and they have deployed properly every time.
I have no interest in debating this. I'm not saying that mechanicals are better or the "right" set up, I'm just writing out my thoughts on why they have felt like the "right"set up for me.
 
I’m just the opposite. I’ve shot 3 deer with mechanicals and only found 1 of them. That deer had absolutely no blood trail. I watched him fall and even tried to follow blood just to see, but never found a drop. Most of the deer I’ve shot with sharp coc heads have bled good. But a few of them didn’t bleed from their sides and just from their nose. I think a good blood trail has a lot of luck involved
 
yeah, I hear ya, I'm torn. People say 2 holes is better than one, which is true if they are the same size hole. Knock on would I've never hit a shoulder, and killed plenty of deer. I know anything put through the ribs with a 70lb bow will kill it, but those giant cut mechanicals make them bleed like crazy.

Sure, they probably run faster/farther cuz of the impact, but with buckets of blood coming out, does it matter? Plus if you hit too far back, the bigger the hole the better.

All that said, I'll be running the black hornet 4 blade fixed for this year to see how they work. I may keep a couple of the NAP Spitfire Maxx's in the quiver for the fun of it...
 
Shoot whatever works for you but, can you elaborate on your blood trails a little? If I am understanding your correctly you get poor blood trails with pass throughs but great blood trails with shots that don't pass through? Just curious because that's the exact opposite of my experience.

I've had double lung from a quartering to shot that exited in the guts and clogged the hole. Found 2 drops of blood, but she died within 100 yards. So one giant hole in the side would bleed much better. High double lungs don't bleed well till the lungs fill with blood. It's all situational
 
I've had double lung from a quartering to shot that exited in the guts and clogged the hole. Found 2 drops of blood, but she died within 100 yards. So one giant hole in the side would bleed much better. High double lungs don't bleed well till the lungs fill with blood. It's all situational

Yep, I agree. I have had some pass throughs and non pass throughs that went against the norm. My father shot a doe last winter with his crossbow. it was a double lung pass through with a 2" cut mechanical. The deer went 40 yards and never bleed a drop. We had a solid blanket of fresh snow on the ground and we were able to follow her tracks from the shot to were she died and there was not a single drop off blood. It was the craziest thing I have seen. So it's definitely situational.

I was more interested in his experience because I got the impression that pass throughs almost never gave him good blood trails and non pass throughs always do.
 
Did ya see Jake from THP had a fixed blade fail? Point curled right over, never found the deer. If he had been shooting a mechanical we would have never heard the end of it from the anti mechanical crowd. Fact is, things happen when shooting deer. People like to blame a simple sliding mechanism on the reason their poor shot placement didnt kill a deer. Look around your world, its full of mechanical things much more complicated than a broadhead. Do you leave a window down in your car, because you fear the mechanical door latch might fail to open your door? I have switched to traditional archery and therefore have left the mechanical heads in the past. I can say without a doubt I miss the mechanical blood trails. 2 blade heads have yet to impress me like a mechanical head.
 
I've used both and had good and bad blood trails with both. I agree there are too many variables to predict the blood trail based solely on the broadhead. Switched to QAD Exodus a couple of years ago because my kids started crossbow hunting and I wanted us to all use the same broadhead for simplicity sake. Great results from the Exodus head, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a good mechanical again.
 
I was more interested in his experience because I got the impression that pass throughs almost never gave him good blood trails and non pass throughs always do.

Just because someone doesn't get a pass through, doesn't mean there aren't two holes!
 
I spend a good amount of time watching hunting content and thinking about ways to improve as a bow hunter. Like many, many ethical hunters, I spend plenty of that time trying to optimize quick deer deaths and the highest recovery chances that I can achieve. So, often when watching ranch fairy videos and The Hunting Public videos, I find myself feeling guilty for shooting mechanical heads (grim reapers) and "non adult" arrows. The thing is, I used to shoot sharp fixed heads. They weren't heavy and I didn't have a high FOC but still, almost all my shots were complete pass throughs. I had a hard time blood trailing many, many deer with that set up.
So, here's my defense of my flipper flappers. I don't currently have a network of hunting buddies who I could ask to help me track. I have a family and my hunting time is limited and I want to avoid needing hours and hours to search for a blood trail. I know that with mechanicals, everything is great until it isn't, however, since I switched, things have gotten much easier for me. For one thing, I don't tend to get complete pass throughs, and seeing my arrow partially sticking out really helps me feel confident on shot placement and likelihood of quick death. Most importantly, every deer has left an amazing blood trail that I have been able to follow alone, easily, and every deer I've shot so far with mechanicals (I think it's 7 or 8) has been recovered and has died quickly.
All this is me just working through that, while I have no doubt that a fixed, single bevel, razor sharp 250 gr head with 22% FOC, is the most ideal set up to maximize death and minimize deflection, for me and with my particular set of circumstances, the calculus seems to point to mechanicals being a better choice for now. I've been so impressed by my reapers (fatal steel 125s). I sharpen them to pretty damn sharp. They've yet to be damaged in any way, and I've been able to reuse them and they have deployed properly every time.
I have no interest in debating this. I'm not saying that mechanicals are better or the "right" set up, I'm just writing out my thoughts on why they have felt like the "right"set up for me.
Been shooting grim reaper carni-fours since 2016. Shot 5 deer with them. Two dropped in their tracks, one ran less than 15 yds, one about 30, one about 50. 3 of them were less than perfect shots, a 5 were insane blood trails.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I spend a good amount of time watching hunting content and thinking about ways to improve as a bow hunter. Like many, many ethical hunters, I spend plenty of that time trying to optimize quick deer deaths and the highest recovery chances that I can achieve. So, often when watching ranch fairy videos and The Hunting Public videos, I find myself feeling guilty for shooting mechanical heads (grim reapers) and "non adult" arrows. The thing is, I used to shoot sharp fixed heads. They weren't heavy and I didn't have a high FOC but still, almost all my shots were complete pass throughs. I had a hard time blood trailing many, many deer with that set up.
So, here's my defense of my flipper flappers. I don't currently have a network of hunting buddies who I could ask to help me track. I have a family and my hunting time is limited and I want to avoid needing hours and hours to search for a blood trail. I know that with mechanicals, everything is great until it isn't, however, since I switched, things have gotten much easier for me. For one thing, I don't tend to get complete pass throughs, and seeing my arrow partially sticking out really helps me feel confident on shot placement and likelihood of quick death. Most importantly, every deer has left an amazing blood trail that I have been able to follow alone, easily, and every deer I've shot so far with mechanicals (I think it's 7 or 8) has been recovered and has died quickly.
All this is me just working through that, while I have no doubt that a fixed, single bevel, razor sharp 250 gr head with 22% FOC, is the most ideal set up to maximize death and minimize deflection, for me and with my particular set of circumstances, the calculus seems to point to mechanicals being a better choice for now. I've been so impressed by my reapers (fatal steel 125s). I sharpen them to pretty damn sharp. They've yet to be damaged in any way, and I've been able to reuse them and they have deployed properly every time.
I have no interest in debating this. I'm not saying that mechanicals are better or the "right" set up, I'm just writing out my thoughts on why they have felt like the "right"set up for me.

I'm surprised you aren't getting pass throughs. What is your set up (draw length, poundage, etc)? Have you bare shaft tuned your bow so the arrow is driving in as straight as possible?

I shoot 60 lbs and 30 inch draw and am big on bow tuning. I carry 3 different types of broadheads with me (in a 3 arrow quiver, I select the arrow based upon weather and other factors). One is always a 100 grain Grim Reaper Razortip with 1 3/8" cut diameter (similar to your fatal steel) and I always get pass throughs. Last year was a quartering away mature 8 pt, entrance at the last rib and exit through part of shoulder blade.

One advantage to mechanicals over smaller 2 blades: most bad shots are gut shots and not heavy bone impacts. A mechanical is way better in the guts. My observation is you hear way more guys saying "hit it in the guts" compared to "stuck it in the hardest part of the shoulder and it didn't hit vitals". It is also mathematical. How much bigger percentage wise is the guts compared to the socket of the shoulder blade, ridge of the shoulder blade near the socket, and the humerus? (the rest of the shoulder blade is pretty thin).

PS edit: Also, no matter which direction a deer is heading, if it is walking or starts to walk, then the shot will hit towards the guts (unless it is walking backward). A deer coiling at the shot is different, of course (will make it hit high...but often farther back if it also turns away from the sound at the same time).
 
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Only shot 3 with archery equipment. All clean quick kills. All mechanicals. My first doe was with my brothers bow. Mechanical unknown. Pass through at 35yds, double lung, excellent blood trail. Walked off, went less than 60yds and dead within a few minutes.

Got a crossbow last year Ravin R10 (398 FPS), put Grim Reapers on them. I was really intrigued by being able to shoot a plywood at 60 degrees and still penetrate and open blades. Anyway, doe at 11yds, pass through, double lung, amazing exit wound and sliced through exit side leg. Ran off fast. Dead within 60 yds. Also took a buck at 70yds (i know i know), pass through, dead within a minute and 60 yds later. Amazing blood trail.
 
It’s probably worth nothing that the difference in Amount of hemorrhage from wide cut to narrow cut is not the larger slice in a lung or a liver. It’s that it increases cutting surface, which increases odds you hit a big pipe that splatters everywhere.

this is why you see small heads also cause horror movie scenes.

so when you’re doing your math, don’t assume an extra 1/2 or 3/4” will ramp up amount of blood from a cut. It’s just increasing odds of encountering Major plumbing.

I guess a bigger exit hole does help to some degree as well. But the extra lung or liver cut, and the slightly bigger hole aren’t game changers.
 
I'm surprised you aren't getting pass throughs. What is your set up (draw length, poundage, etc)? Have you bare shaft tuned your bow so the arrow is driving in as straight as possible?

I shoot 60 lbs and 30 inch draw and am big on bow tuning. I carry 3 different types of broadheads with me (in a 3 arrow quiver, I select the arrow based upon weather and other factors). One is always a 100 grain Grim Reaper Razortip with 1 3/8" cut diameter (similar to your fatal steel) and I always get pass throughs. Last year was a quartering away mature 8 pt, entrance at the last rib and exit through part of shoulder blade.

One advantage to mechanicals over smaller 2 blades: most bad shots are gut shots and not heavy bone impacts. A mechanical is way better in the guts. My observation is you hear way more guys saying "hit it in the guts" compared to "stuck it in the hardest part of the shoulder and it didn't hit vitals". It is also mathematical. How much bigger percentage wise is the guts compared to the socket of the shoulder blade, ridge of the shoulder blade near the socket, and the humerus? (the rest of the shoulder blade is pretty thin).
Lot of sense in this post.
 
Do what you think will work best for you in your circumstance and don't worry about what anyone else thinks or says. Catman is a good example. I am sure he is well aware of the Fairy train but he is out slaying deer with his swackers and not apologizing for it.
 
Watch THP last you tube post. He uses a single bvl cutthroat. the arrow deflects off a limb and causes the arrow to KO the shoulder. The arrow didn't pass through and broke off inside the buck. The monster buck still only ran 50 yards and the broad head could be used again. this is why they call fixed blade high FOC arrows plan B arrows. Because you never know what will happen once the arrow leaves the string. There isnt any doubt mechanicals kill deer but in my opinion they dont hold up as well when hitting bone.
 
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