Issue bareshafting

[Squirrels]

Looking for some input. I will preface this by I'm not technical when it comes to bows. It's not something I have set aside time in my life yet to verse myself on. Like many others I have gone down the rabbit hole of heavier arrow build. I ordered the ethics field point test kit and a 2 different model arrows in 3 different spines (5 arrows total). I went out Saturday and began some testing. Before I did anything I moved my rest back to center shot on my bow according to what the manufacturer recommends. Nocks were kicking left at 10 yards regardless what combo I shot in terms of spine and point weight, at 20 yards I was getting no left nock kick. I moved my rest out and out and out (left handed bow) at 10 yards trying to resolve the left kick and it finally got "better" with the rest at the 1.25" to 1.5" mark (whisker bisquit). Another note, with this bow I've always had to have the sight pins significantly outside the string/arrow alignment.

What next?? Looking for some advice/input from some of you more experienced folks. I did not shoot any yesterday becasue I was so frustrated after my Saturday experience.

 

[SnakeEater]

What’s your bow model, draw weight and draw length and arrow spines and length that your trying out?


Sent from parts unknown

 

[Squirrels]

What’s your bow model, draw weight and draw length and arrow spines and length that your trying out?


Sent from parts unknown

2016 Elite Impulse 31, 60#, 28.5"
Black Eagle Spartan .350 and .300 and .250
Black Eagle Rampage .300 and .250
All arrows cut 28" carbon to carbon

 

[SnakeEater]

With any bow one reason to need to move the rest away from riser would be under spined arrows but you have plenty of spine with 250 and 300. Was this with all arrows? If so it could be a timing issue.


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[Squirrels]

With any bow one reason to need to move the rest away from riser would be under spined arrows but you have plenty of spine with 250 and 300. Was this with all arrows? If so it could be a timing issue.


Sent from parts unknown

Yes, all arrows and various point weights as well

 

[Treehopper2]

Start with paper tuning your bow this will give you a starting point to see what your bow is doing at this point.
If this isn’t something you have done before there are plenty of YouTube videos available to watch and learn how it’s done.
I would start with your rest center shot set to what the manufacturer recommended.
Depending on what model of bow you have will decide how you adjust your cam lean to get the arrow coming straight out of your bow.
Many things come into play with arrow flight. individual hand torque, arrow spine,rest tune,cam timing, etc.
Like I said earlier there are many videos to learn how to tune a bow. Once you get a feel for what your doing make small adjustments they go a long way in this process.


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[SnakeEater]

It was probably a good idea to take a break and let yourself reset. Try it again focusing strictly on technique and not torquing (not saying your a bad shot or have bad habits by any means but it happened to me). If you get the same results I would say take it to a shop where they’ll actually take the time and make sure your bow and cams are tuned right. Then go back to paper and start over. I found out my top hats needed to be switched on my Mathews during my heavy arrow build bc of a consistent tear. Hope my input helps.


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[Apex7]

When paper tuning form is very important if you don't have good form it's hard to get a good tear through paper. Try putting your rest at 13/16 off the riser and go from there.

 

[Squirrels]

It was probably a good idea to take a break and let yourself reset. Try it again focusing strictly on technique and not torquing (not saying your a bad shot or have bad habits by any means but it happened to me). If you get the same results I would say take it to a shop where they’ll actually take the time and make sure your bow and cams are tuned right. Then go back to paper and start over. I found out my top hats needed to be switched on my Mathews during my heavy arrow build bc of a consistent tear. Hope my input helps.


Sent from parts unknown

I'm not above saying it isn't me. I will shoot a little more focusing on form. I am not going to beat it to death though. Once the stores are back open from the mandates I will take my bow to the shop I bought it from and have them check timing so I'm feel confident something isn't off there.

 

[BTaylor]

I had to shim the top cam on my Obsession. Never messed with an Elite.

 

[SnakeEater]

I'm not above saying it isn't me. I will shoot a little more focusing on form. I am not going to beat it to death though. Once the stores are back open from the mandates I will take my bow to the shop I bought it from and have them check timing so I'm feel confident something isn't off there.

Right on. When I had my timing/top hat issue I would intentionally torque my bow to try and get rid of the tear but it stayed consistent and that showed me it was the bow and not me. Maybe something to try if your still getting the tears to rule out grip torque.


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[Squirrels]

Right on. When I had my timing/top hat issue I would intentionally torque my bow to try and get rid of the tear but it stayed consistent and that showed me it was the bow and not me. Maybe something to try if your still getting the tears to rule out grip torque.


Sent from parts unknown

I did try a little different grip positioning to no avail but I will magnify it as much as possible to see. What baffled me was at 20 yards it was darts, closer I moved in more nock left it got. I don't know enough about the physics of it all to understand why that is. I assume there is a logical physics lesson there that would explain it though.

 

[SnakeEater]

I did try a little different grip positioning to no avail but I will magnify it as much as possible to see. What baffled me was at 20 yards it was darts, closer I moved in more nock left it got. I don't know enough about the physics of it all to understand why that is. I assume there is a logical physics lesson there that would explain it though.

Archers paradox? Haha I wish I knew more but I’ve pretty much exhausted my novice understanding of this. The 20y darts is beyond me. Maybe just pick a point weight and do a French tune? I usually do that anyways to double check. SomewhereinWisconsin on YouTube has a good 3 part series on that but it sounds like it’s the bow and not you IMO.

 

[Treehopper2]

I did try a little different grip positioning to no avail but I will magnify it as much as possible to see. What baffled me was at 20 yards it was darts, closer I moved in more nock left it got. I don't know enough about the physics of it all to understand why that is. I assume there is a logical physics lesson there that would explain it though.

Are you shooting bare shaft or fletched arrows ?


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[Squirrels]

Are you shooting bare shaft or fletched arrows ?


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bare shaft

 

[d_rek]

Sounds like something else is out of spec with the bow: cam timing/sync, draw length, brace, etc. but could be arrow spine or some other issue even form or your release.

Bareshaft generally shows you two things: if you’re bow is in tune and if you have good form.

It’s possible to achieve decent bareshaft POI with a bow that is slightly out of tune (some even intentionally detune to get optimal results). But if you’re form and grip are poor even the most well tuned bow won’t perform. Vice versa.... if your bow is badly out of tune it doesn’t matter how good your form is.

If you search bareshaft tuning look at the patterning images and they will tell you how to adjust for optimal bareshaft flight. There are tons of videos out there just google bareshaft tuning.

IMO if you are already bareshaft Tuning don’t bother with paper at this point.

Shooting different spined arrows with different tip weights is going to get you different results and you will need to tune for that arrow. IMO pick one and go with it.








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[like.2.fly]

I recommend to bareshaft tune from 2 yards through paper so you know how the arrow is coming out of the bow, not how it is flying at 10 or 20 yards (not yet anyway). Get consistent bullet holes there before doing anything else. Start with just a standard 100g point and 350 spine shaft. Shoot that same arrow many times so you can tell if your grip or form is changing anything between shots. Also try rotating the nock to different positions to see if that changes anything. Get that arrow shooting bullet holes every time from 2 yards. Now you should have pretty good arrow flight. Then you can start moving back and shooting both fletched and bare shafts at longer distances. Or you can repeat all this with the heavier points on that same shaft and see how it changes, and which weight shoots the best. Repeat again on the 300 shafts. Find the best shaft/point combo and then fine tune that one from there to get bullet holes from 2 yards before ever moving back.

 

[Weldabeast]

Since u get consistent nock left with all the arrows I'd be looking at the bow. U said u moved your rest before u started shooting bareshaft....how was it shooting before u moved it?

 

[KyleND]

I would say get your short distance shooting the bullet holes first before shooting out to twenty.
It is curious why at 20 they were better tears than 10. The only thing I can think of is if you were using a heavy field point, heavy enough to achieve an EFOC or UEFOC arrow. Maybe that would coincide with what Dr. Ashby says regarding you almost don't need fletching because heavy tip is pulling arrow and it straightened it out... not sure but it is interesting.

 

[Bowmanmike]

I would say get your short distance shooting the bullet holes first before shooting out to twenty.
It is curious why at 20 they were better tears than 10. The only thing I can think of is if you were using a heavy field point, heavy enough to achieve an EFOC or UEFOC arrow. Maybe that would coincide with what Dr. Ashby says regarding you almost don't need fletching because heavy tip is pulling arrow and it straightened it out... not sure but it is interesting.

I was thinking the same thing. Bareshaft arrows generally only get worse the further away you shoot,but yours got better. It must be the tip pulling the shaft.