Let's talk arrows

[Bigfoot522]

Ok, after trying several combos for tunability and range performance, (or should I say trying to make certain combos fly good) I have come right back to these..
Victory 500s cut to 29.5" with 100 grain inserts and 300 grain points.
3 four inch banana feathers on a cap wrap, total arrow weight 630 grains on my digital scale.

I sold my max 6 limbs favoring border 7.2s for several reasons.
21" riser #52@28 limbs
180 fps #39KE .58 slugs momentum
I will shoot 250 grain glue on broadhead on a 75 grain adapter in a 50 grain insert.
It will be a few grains lighter than the field points but not much.

 

[will4554]

I have a Kodiak magnum 42/28 and a black hunter 40/28. After quite a bit of experimentation and frustration, I'm shooting GT trad 400's 30 inches carbon to carbon with 250 total upfront. They dart bare shaft out of both bows. Fletchings are TBD, but will more than likely be a 4 fletch with 3-inch feathers.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I stumbled onto something today that will help me, but I have no idea as to exactly why, or if it will help anyone else.
I've worked on my new arrow build for a few months now and it has been a roller coaster ride. Lots of ups and downs, but more ups than downs. Definitely lots of new revelations that I never had with my old process of my "old ways" with arrow builds.
So I was pretty much dialed in with the new arrows, surely an improvement towards penetration.
But I was still getting a little "tail wag".
The main test arrow had a nock that was sized for my Dacron string...the throat was loosened up so it gripped the string the way the experts say they should grip...not too tight.
The new string is fast flight which is a smaller diameter. This nock is a little loose. And this arrow is the one with the tail wag. But hey, all the experts tell us that a tight nock is wrong, right? I decided to pop in a virgin nock... No puns, please.
Wow, what a difference in flight. And I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe the bow was shooting a little hot for this arrow build?? Is it possible that the tight nock makes the arrows shoot a little stiffer? IDK.
My point is to not assume that the advice is always best to loosen nocks to the standard "tap-tap, fall off the string" type of tightness.
Don't sand open the nock until you are sure they won't shoot well otherwise.

 

[JSEXTON23]

I stumbled onto something today that will help me, but I have no idea as to exactly why, or if it will help anyone else.
I've worked on my new arrow build for a few months now and it has been a roller coaster ride. Lots of ups and downs, but more ups than downs. Definitely lots of new revelations that I never had with my old process of my "old ways" with arrow builds.
So I was pretty much dialed in with the new arrows, surely an improvement towards penetration.
But I was still getting a little "tail wag".
The main test arrow had a nock that was sized for my Dacron string...the throat was loosened up so it gripped the string the way the experts say they should grip...not too tight.
The new string is fast flight which is a smaller diameter. This nock is a little loose. And this arrow is the one with the tail wag. But hey, all the experts tell us that a tight nock is wrong, right? I decided to pop in a virgin nock... No puns, please.
Wow, what a difference in flight. And I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe the bow was shooting a little hot for this arrow build?? Is it possible that the tight nock makes the arrows shoot a little stiffer? IDK.
My point is to not assume that the advice is always best to loosen nocks to the standard "tap-tap, fall off the string" type of tightness.
Don't sand open the nock until you are sure they won't shoot well otherwise.

Were your arrows weaker with the FF string? Modern Dyneema will shoot faster than your Dacron string.

And I would not recommend touching the nock until you shoot a few dozen arrows to compress the serving where the nock goes. I find after shooting for a while my serving compresses and my tight nock fit loosens to an acceptable level.

Not sure if I’m correct or make sense, but that would be my assumptions.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Were your arrows weaker with the FF string? Modern Dyneema will shoot faster than your Dacron string.

And I would not recommend touching the nock until you shoot a few dozen arrows to compress the serving where the nock goes. I find after shooting for a while my serving compresses and my tight nock fit loosens to an acceptable level.

Not sure if I’m correct or make sense, but that would be my assumptions.

I realize that FF shoots faster than dacron, so yes, the arrows were essentially weaker.
The point of my post was to share that we are always told to fit our nocks to they drop off the string with a tap of the string. I've always made sure my nocks had that amount of tightness. I didn't even question if a tight nock might shoot better because all the gurus said a looser nock was the correct way...and maybe 90% of the time looser is better. But in my case...my bow, my arrows, my form... a tight nock is working better. May or may not be a solution for most guys but it it might help a few guys.


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[JSEXTON23]

I realize that FF shoots faster than dacron, so yes, the arrows were essentially weaker.
The point of my post was to share that we are always told to fit our nocks to they drop off the string with a tap of the string. I've always made sure my nocks had that amount of tightness. I didn't even question if a tight nock might shoot better because all the gurus said a looser nock was the correct way...and maybe 90% of the time looser is better. But in my case...my bow, my arrows, my form... a tight nock is working better. May or may not be a solution for most guys but it it might help a few guys.


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Understood. Apologize if I came off as patronizing.

I have a similar experience. My nocks are on the tight end of the spectrum and I generally find I get better arrow flight when compared to a loose or sloppy (which is what I consider a fit that can be tapped off). I think the loose fit can allow for enough movement within the nock to change the forces acting on it.

Again, I might be wrong.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Understood. Apologize if I came off as patronizing.....

No, I didn't take it that way.
We can't always know the level of experience that posters or readers have. Its always good to clarify or reiterate stuff.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Heydeerman]

I stumbled onto something today that will help me, but I have no idea as to exactly why, or if it will help anyone else.
I've worked on my new arrow build for a few months now and it has been a roller coaster ride. Lots of ups and downs, but more ups than downs. Definitely lots of new revelations that I never had with my old process of my "old ways" with arrow builds.
So I was pretty much dialed in with the new arrows, surely an improvement towards penetration.
But I was still getting a little "tail wag".
The main test arrow had a nock that was sized for my Dacron string...the throat was loosened up so it gripped the string the way the experts say they should grip...not too tight.
The new string is fast flight which is a smaller diameter. This nock is a little loose. And this arrow is the one with the tail wag. But hey, all the experts tell us that a tight nock is wrong, right? I decided to pop in a virgin nock... No puns, please.
Wow, what a difference in flight. And I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe the bow was shooting a little hot for this arrow build?? Is it possible that the tight nock makes the arrows shoot a little stiffer? IDK.
My point is to not assume that the advice is always best to loosen nocks to the standard "tap-tap, fall off the string" type of tightness.
Don't sand open the nock until you are sure they won't shoot well otherwise.

The last thing I want is my arrow falling off my string when 20 feet up. It’s happened a few times. I prefer a “light” snap on the string. I use an Saunders arrow gripper too and if the nock is too loose the gripper pulls it off the string

 

[gcr0003]

I have a Kodiak magnum 42/28 and a black hunter 40/28. After quite a bit of experimentation and frustration, I'm shooting GT trad 400's 30 inches carbon to carbon with 250 total upfront. They dart bare shaft out of both bows. Fletchings are TBD, but will more than likely be a 4 fletch with 3-inch feathers.

Draw length?

 

[will4554]

Draw length?

A touch over 29, 29 1/2 on a compound.

 

[gcr0003]

A touch over 29, 29 1/2 on a compound.

That’s about what I am as well. I have some 400 spine arrows that are 32.5” with nock that I’m going to cut down. I should be at about the same, maybe closer to 225-235 up front.

 

[will4554]

That’s about what I am as well. I have some 400 spine arrows that are 32.5” with nock that I’m going to cut down. I should be at about the same, maybe closer to 225-235 up front.

I would trim them slow, maybe a 1/4 or less at a time. I could have gone a bit shorter but opted to build out the shelf some instead

 

[gcr0003]

I would trim them slow, maybe a 1/4 or less at a time. I could have gone a bit shorter but opted to build out the shelf some instead

I agree. I just built some for my compound and I hade them cut them from 30” up to 31” at .25” increments and I was able to play with weight and the length. I think for these arrows I’m just going to get them cut to 30” and then keep adding weight until it hits the spine it likes. I don’t have a arrow saw so I don’t have the luxury to play with my arrows as much as I’d like to

 

[GCTerpfan]

I agree. I just built some for my compound and I hade them cut them from 30” up to 31” at .25” increments and I was able to play with weight and the length. I think for these arrows I’m just going to get them cut to 30” and then keep adding weight until it hits the spine it likes. I don’t have a arrow saw so I don’t have the luxury to play with my arrows as much as I’d like to

I'm not sure I would cut them all to 30" before shooting them. In my experience 400 spine seems stiff for that bow. I have a 30" draw and shoot 31" long 400 spine GT with 100g inserts and 250g points up front out of my 55# recurve, with a FF string. I shoot a 500 spine Beeman carbon arrow with 175 g points out of my 50# bow with FF. (both of those weights are at my 30" draw) I have an older 44# @ 28" Bear Grizzly and although I haven't shot bare shafts through it because I don't hunt or shoot it that much, fletched 400 spines show they are way to stiff. It would take a 500 spine, maybe even a 600 spine depending on point weight to fly out of that bow.

I would definitely try to shoot the 400's you have full length before you cut them down.

 

[AppalachianArcher]

I'm shooting a kmag 52# @ 28" with Gt trad classic xt 340s. They're cut 28 5/8" (carbon to carbon) with the factory 80gr insert that is another 1/2" longer with a 2" 2013 xx75 footer and 200gr point. I've got 3 2" shield cut feathers out back with a decent helical. 677.5gr TAW with 22.6% FOC

 

[gcr0003]

I'm not sure I would cut them all to 30" before shooting them. In my experience 400 spine seems stiff for that bow. I have a 30" draw and shoot 31" long 400 spine GT with 100g inserts and 250g points up front out of my 55# recurve, with a FF string. I shoot a 500 spine Beeman carbon arrow with 175 g points out of my 50# bow with FF. (both of those weights are at my 30" draw) I have an older 44# @ 28" Bear Grizzly and although I haven't shot bare shafts through it because I don't hunt or shoot it that much, fletched 400 spines show they are way to stiff. It would take a 500 spine, maybe even a 600 spine depending on point weight to fly out of that bow.

I would definitely try to shoot the 400's you have full length before you cut them down.

Man y’all are getting me all screwed up. I have shot these at full length.... I also shot 500 spine and could not get them to fly well with anything other than 150 up front. I wrote down the combination that flew well but I wanted to add more weight which is why I was planning on cutting them down...

Since I’m now second guessing the full day of shooting I did Sunday I guess it’s back to the drawing board again. I will shoot them again today and see where I got confused...

I’ve been fooling with trying to tune arrows to this bow for so long now I’m getting sick of it. I have successfully bareshaft tuned arrows to this bow but they were lighter than I want for my traditional set up.

I’m probably getting my arrows mixed up. I was tuning 3 bows this past weekend and it started getting hard to keep track.

I’ll get myself squared away and report back in a happier mood.

Rant over.

 

[gcr0003]

Man y’all are getting me all screwed up. I have shot these at full length.... I also shot 500 spine and could not get them to fly well with anything other than 150 up front. I wrote down the combination that flew well but I wanted to add more weight which is why I was planning on cutting them down...

Since I’m now second guessing the full day of shooting I did Sunday I guess it’s back to the drawing board again. I will shoot them again today and see where I got confused...

I’ve been fooling with trying to tune arrows to this bow for so long now I’m getting sick of it. I have successfully bareshaft tuned arrows to this bow but they were lighter than I want for my traditional set up.

I’m probably getting my arrows mixed up. I was tuning 3 bows this past weekend and it started getting hard to keep track.

I’ll get myself squared away and report back in a happier mood.

Rant over.

If i had the ability to cut my arrows this would be a lot less headache.

 

[AppalachianArcher]

Man y’all are getting me all screwed up. I have shot these at full length.... I also shot 500 spine and could not get them to fly well with anything other than 150 up front. I wrote down the combination that flew well but I wanted to add more weight which is why I was planning on cutting them down...

Since I’m now second guessing the full day of shooting I did Sunday I guess it’s back to the drawing board again. I will shoot them again today and see where I got confused...

I’ve been fooling with trying to tune arrows to this bow for so long now I’m getting sick of it. I have successfully bareshaft tuned arrows to this bow but they were lighter than I want for my traditional set up.

I’m probably getting my arrows mixed up. I was tuning 3 bows this past weekend and it started getting hard to keep track.

I’ll get myself squared away and report back in a happier mood.

Rant over.

Shelf cut, strike plate thickness, brace height, and you are all going to factor in as well. Best advice I can give, is to find something that flies good and then fine tune accordingly.

 

[GCTerpfan]

Man y’all are getting me all screwed up. I have shot these at full length.... I also shot 500 spine and could not get them to fly well with anything other than 150 up front. I wrote down the combination that flew well but I wanted to add more weight which is why I was planning on cutting them down...

Since I’m now second guessing the full day of shooting I did Sunday I guess it’s back to the drawing board again. I will shoot them again today and see where I got confused...

I’ve been fooling with trying to tune arrows to this bow for so long now I’m getting sick of it. I have successfully bareshaft tuned arrows to this bow but they were lighter than I want for my traditional set up.

I’m probably getting my arrows mixed up. I was tuning 3 bows this past weekend and it started getting hard to keep track.

I’ll get myself squared away and report back in a happier mood.

Rant over.

I assume the 500's and the full length 400's were showing a weak spine?

In my experience changing the length of carbon arrows affects the spine more than adjusting point weight. I just didn't want you to cut them all down to 30" only to find out they are too stiff at that length and you can't use them.

I have no idea how you would keep three different bows straight when tuning. I confuse myself working with one bow at a time.

 

[gcr0003]

I assume the 500's and the full length 400's were showing a weak spine?

In my experience changing the length of carbon arrows affects the spine more than adjusting point weight. I just didn't want you to cut them all down to 30" only to find out they are too stiff at that length and you can't use them.

I have no idea how you would keep three different bows straight when tuning. I confuse myself working with one bow at a time.

Well obviously I didn't keep them straight! haha

I am shooting a 44# bow and I am trying out these 500 spine before I buy. They were 31" shooting weak. I cant cut them so I don't know if I'll be able to get there with them cut down. I would like about a 500-550 grain arrows for my traditional set up.