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Let's talk arrows

gcr0003 said:
Man y’all are getting me all screwed up. I have shot these at full length.... I also shot 500 spine and could not get them to fly well with anything other than 150 up front. I wrote down the combination that flew well but I wanted to add more weight which is why I was planning on cutting them down...

Since I’m now second guessing the full day of shooting I did Sunday I guess it’s back to the drawing board again. I will shoot them again today and see where I got confused...

I’ve been fooling with trying to tune arrows to this bow for so long now I’m getting sick of it. I have successfully bareshaft tuned arrows to this bow but they were lighter than I want for my traditional set up.

I’m probably getting my arrows mixed up. I was tuning 3 bows this past weekend and it started getting hard to keep track.

I’ll get myself squared away and report back in a happier mood.

Rant over.
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I can relate.
I had a decent arrow build for the last um-teen years, but I wanted it to be better. So this summer I went the UEFOC route. Every time I thought I was making headway, something would set me backward. I was getting frustrated.
Then I tried a few things that were unconventional for me... I turned my nocks so I was shooting the cock feather at 12 o'clock and it was better. Then someone mentioned that Tom Clum shoots his cock feather at THREE O'CLOCK, which sounds crazy for a right hander, but I decided to try it and my arrow shot even better. Then I raised my nocking point higher than I've ever had it and it shot great.
But then I had an arrow with a nock that was a little loose on the string. It seemed acceptable for tightness but the arrow kicked a little so I put an unaltered nock on that arrow. This sucker snaps onto the string tighter that all the experts say is correct. The arrow now shoots perfect.
The moral of the story...sometimes the "accepted" way is not the right way.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
And to add to the complexity, the carbon arrows I've bought are not spined the same in all directions. Put one on a spine tester and check the spine every quarter turn. I've been checking mine and setting the knock indicator so they all match in spine just like I used to do on wood. If you don't have a spine tester, just turn that nock a quarter turn as you shoot it bareshaft until it shoots like the others.
 
gcr0003 said:
Well obviously I didn't keep them straight! haha

I am shooting a 44# bow and I am trying out these 500 spine before I buy. They were 31" shooting weak. I cant cut them so I don't know if I'll be able to get there with them cut down. I would like about a 500-550 grain arrows for my traditional set up.
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I'm shooting a 42# Longbow with 30.5" bop to nock throat 500 GT Trad shafts. I have 50 grain brass inserts and 150 grain tip. I'm coming in just below 500 grains, at around 485-490. If I change anything I would likely go to 400 spine shafts with more weight up front. Its a give and take. 42# and 550 grains is going to shoot around 140 fps. I'm not a speed junkie, but I would like a bit more speed. The only way to do that is shoot more bow weight.

You can read the above comments on them being stiff, but we never know the center cut of the riser they are shooting with. To me that is the most overlooked factor. We all know about draw length, draw weight, and point weight, but I think people see you are shooting an arrow they get to fly in a heavier bow and say your arrows are too stiff. What isn't mentioned is the fact that your bows center shot is different.
 
Southbow said:
And to add to the complexity, the carbon arrows I've bought are not spined the same in all directions. Put one on a spine tester and check the spine every quarter turn. I've been checking mine and setting the knock indicator so they all match in spine just like I used to do on wood. If you don't have a spine tester, just turn that nock a quarter turn as you shoot it bareshaft until it shoots like the others.
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Yeah, thats the way it always was with Grizzlystik brand shafts and I wondered if it would be like that with the Grizzlystik Momentum shafts which are made for them by Victory. They all have a strong side and so, the nock should be rotated accordingly.
But you don't need a spine tester to find the stiff side. I flex the shaft across my thigh and roll it toward my knee. You will feel a distinctive "pop" when the flex rotates to the strong side. The Grizzlystik website used to have a video about it...not sure if its still on there or not.
I have found that the stiff side on these Momentum shafts is very consistent with the labeling on the shaft. They all seem to have the stiff side in the same spot in relation to the logo.
I think its actually a benefit to have a strong side/weak side. If the shaft is shooting stiff or weak, you can rotate the nock and find the sweet spot.
 
JSEXTON23 said:
I'm shooting a 42# Longbow with 30.5" bop to nock throat 500 GT Trad shafts. I have 50 grain brass inserts and 150 grain tip. I'm coming in just below 500 grains, at around 485-490. If I change anything I would likely go to 400 spine shafts with more weight up front. Its a give and take. 42# and 550 grains is going to shoot around 140 fps. I'm not a speed junkie, but I would like a bit more speed. The only way to do that is shoot more bow weight.

You can read the above comments on them being stiff, but we never know the center cut of the riser they are shooting with. To me that is the most overlooked factor. We all know about draw length, draw weight, and point weight, but I think people see you are shooting an arrow they get to fly in a heavier bow and say your arrows are too stiff. What isn't mentioned is the fact that your bows center shot is different.
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Excellent point.
And its surprising how little of a change in building out, or removing thickness of the strike plate will make a difference. I'm talking 1/64" or less can make a difference in how stiff an arrow shoots.
 
JSEXTON23 said:
I'm shooting a 42# Longbow with 30.5" bop to nock throat 500 GT Trad shafts. I have 50 grain brass inserts and 150 grain tip. I'm coming in just below 500 grains, at around 485-490. If I change anything I would likely go to 400 spine shafts with more weight up front. Its a give and take. 42# and 550 grains is going to shoot around 140 fps. I'm not a speed junkie, but I would like a bit more speed. The only way to do that is shoot more bow weight.

You can read the above comments on them being stiff, but we never know the center cut of the riser they are shooting with. To me that is the most overlooked factor. We all know about draw length, draw weight, and point weight, but I think people see you are shooting an arrow they get to fly in a heavier bow and say your arrows are too stiff. What isn't mentioned is the fact that your bows center shot is different.
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Yep, I agree about the center cut. I left that out in my examples above because both bows are cut 1/8 past center with a thin strike plate so they should shoot a little stiffer arrow then the bear Kodiak which I believe is cut to center (not postive on that though).

Just to be clear @gcr0003, I'm not saying the 400 spines won't shoot out of that bow for you. There are a lot of variables that could make your bow tune different than mine. I was just cautioning you that cutting that much off at one time might make them so stiff no amount of point weight will correct it. If they are showing weak spine at full length, I would find someone with an arrow saw and make small adjustments at a time. Small changes in length make a big difference with carbon.
 
GCTerpfan said:
If they are showing weak spine at full length, I would find someone with an arrow saw and make small adjustments at a time. Small changes in length make a big difference with carbon.
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I 100% agree with this. When you start to get close, 1/16" or less can swing you in the wrong direction.

I think most of those arrow charts are based off of 28"-29" arrows and 100-125 grain tips, using aluminum or wood. Those materials are dynamically so much different than carbon. They can't really even be compared.
 
GCTerpfan said:
Yep, I agree about the center cut. I left that out in my examples above because both bows are cut 1/8 past center with a thin strike plate so they should shoot a little stiffer arrow then the bear Kodiak which I believe is cut to center (not postive on that though).

Just to be clear @gcr0003, I'm not saying the 400 spines won't shoot out of that bow for you. There are a lot of variables that could make your bow tune different than mine. I was just cautioning you that cutting that much off at one time might make them so stiff no amount of point weight will correct it. If they are showing weak spine at full length, I would find someone with an arrow saw and make small adjustments at a time. Small changes in length make a big difference with carbon.
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Yea I know you were just being helpful. Sorry for the agitated response. After the mess I just had to deal with at the archery shop I will be buying my own arrow saw,
 
In a pinch, you can use a dremel, angle grinder, most sanders, and I'm sure other tools. Just have to be careful and always go slow, and be sure to square them. I also leave them bare until I'm ready to fletch. If it shoots bare shaft then broadheads will be no issue in my experience. This is my first season with trad, I have always tuned bare shaft with my compounds though.
 
gcr0003 said:
Yea I know you were just being helpful. Sorry for the agitated response. After the mess I just had to deal with at the archery shop I will be buying my own arrow saw,
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I do just fine cutting shafts with a Dremmel. I have a couple V blocks that I made a long time ago in vo tech machinist class. But there are several ways to rig a cradle to hold a shaft while you cut it with a Dremmel. The key is to spin the shaft as you cut it. Don't try to cut straight thru.

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Alright fellas. I got the 5575 GTs cut to 30.5”. I did just get anew string as well so I’m breaking a couple things in. I threw a 300 grain tip on, no bueno. I threw a 200 grain on... almost bueno. 150... bueno. I increased the distance from the string to my riser and wow does it make a difference. It’s like a completely different bow. I wasn’t able to get the weight I wanted on these arrows but at 165 these are flying fast and straight. I noticed I was able to get a more full draw out of the bow. I am drawing to just right before the insert and I’m getting great shots out of the bow. I even shot some at 15 and 20 yards and was still throwing lasers. My questions is... would any of you consider this underweighted for a traditional deer killing set up.

44# 28 AMO drawing ~30” regular 12 grain insert with a 150 grain grizzle broadhead. I don’t know what the shaft weight is but conservatively 250?

250+10+150=410.... wow that seems way too light. Maybe these shafts are flimsier than I thought.

But they are flying so well..... guess I need to try some stiffer shafts
 
The most important thing is that the arrows are tuned properly and you have a sharp cut on contact broadhead. I shot clear through my deer last year and my arrow buried several inches in the dirt with an arrow that weighed around 475g out of a 50# bow.

Heavy arrows and high foc are better, and I have been working towards that myself this year but, your arrows will kill a deer. So whatever you do, keep it fun and don't let it frustrate you. If you can find a heavier arrow setup that shoots well, use it. If not go kill a deer with the arrows you know fly well.
 
swampsnyper said:
Oh wait, you bought a kite out from under me. On second thought, just scratch them on the concrete until you reach the desired length!
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I just had to yesterday after this archery shop messed up all my brand new arrows...
 
swampsnyper said:
Oh wait, you bought a kite out from under me. On second thought, just scratch them on the concrete until you reach the desired length!
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Didn't you already own a Kite? I am pretty sure that I now own it, by way of Nutterbuster. Who, funnily enough also mentioned he was looking for a Kite recently.
 
GCTerpfan said:
Didn't you already own a Kite? I am pretty sure that I now own it, by way of Nutterbuster. Who, funnily enough also mentioned he was looking for a Kite recently.
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I had already paid the guy by the time he was inquiring about it lol. If anything he was trying pull the rug out from under me!
 
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