light, packable down pants?

[Dcomer55]

This season I've used the first lite catalyst bibs paired with the black ovis anchor point down pants. I've absolutely loved this system. Generally I will wear my base layers and the bibs in then put the down pants on at the tree. The down pants unzip fully so that I can put them on under the bibs without take the bibs off- I just unzip the bibs all the way up to my hips and slide the pants under.

By just wearing the uninsulated bibs in I rarely over heat, especially since they have 2 way zips allowing me to dump heat as necessary. They also silence the down pants and help cut the wind quite well.

The down pants are super light and packable and incredibly warm. They are 120 grams of 800 full power down if I remember right. They can generally be bought on sale for $150 or so. Much warmer than the first light Uncompagrhe pants and cut the wind better due to the welded seams on the black ovis pants.

System is highly versatile. Listed below are actual temps from the season - all sits were a minimum of 5 hours on stand. All sits included the bib pants combo, I just noted what the rest of my lower body layering system was to illustrate how I make it fit the whole season:

30 - 45 degrees: first lite Kiln long johns

20 ‐ 30 degrees: first light furnace long johns

10 ‐ 20 degrees: first light fuse long johns and furnace long johns

Single digits and below zero: furnace, Kiln and fuse

When temps are above 45 i generally don't take the down pants, the bibs and long johns get me through

If you are not familiar with first lite, the fuse layers are 200 grams, 67% wool. The Kiln is 259 grams and the furnace is 350 grams, both layers are 95% wool.

 

[Weldabeast]

The wiggys leg jackets are interesting too

 

[Maverick1]

This season I've used the first lite catalyst bibs paired with the black ovis anchor point down pants. I've absolutely loved this system. Generally I will wear my base layers and the bibs in then put the down pants on at the tree. The down pants unzip fully so that I can put them on under the bibs without take the bibs off- I just unzip the bibs all the way up to my hips and slide the pants under.

By just wearing the uninsulated bibs in I rarely over heat, especially since they have 2 way zips allowing me to dump heat as necessary. They also silence the down pants and help cut the wind quite well.

The down pants are super light and packable and incredibly warm. They are 120 grams of 800 full power down if I remember right. They can generally be bought on sale for $150 or so. Much warmer than the first light Uncompagrhe pants and cut the wind better due to the welded seams on the black ovis pants.

System is highly versatile. Listed below are actual temps from the season - all sits were a minimum of 5 hours on stand. All sits included the bib pants combo, I just noted what the rest of my lower body layering system was to illustrate how I make it fit the whole season:

30 - 45 degrees: first lite Kiln long johns

20 ‐ 30 degrees: first light furnace long johns

10 ‐ 20 degrees: first light fuse long johns and furnace long johns

Single digits and below zero: furnace, Kiln and fuse

When temps are above 45 i generally don't take the down pants, the bibs and long johns get me through

If you are not familiar with first lite, the fuse layers are 200 grams, 67% wool. The Kiln is 259 grams and the furnace is 350 grams, both layers are 95% wool.

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I appreciate it. (I’ve used a similar setup before, different brands, but similar concept and approach). A couple of questions:

1. Did you find the combination of down and bibs to be quiet enough to bow hunt in?
2. Did you wear a similar setup on top? (Base later, down insulation layer, and then jacket). If so, was that quiet enough to bow hunt in? If not, why?
3. Instead of doubling up on baselayers, what are your thoughts on going with a single base layer, and a down insulating layer with more than the 4 oz in the black ovis set?
4. Did you find the down to compress too much under your rear when using a saddle that you lost warmth?

 

[Camelcluch]

When it’s real nasty out and in wet conditions, I use the Kifaru lost park pants and parka. They are like an oven. I would say close to sitka fanatic warm.

 

[Maverick1]

This season I've used the first lite catalyst bibs paired with the black ovis anchor point down pants. I've absolutely loved this system. Generally I will wear my base layers and the bibs in then put the down pants on at the tree. The down pants unzip fully so that I can put them on under the bibs without take the bibs off- I just unzip the bibs all the way up to my hips and slide the pants under.

By just wearing the uninsulated bibs in I rarely over heat, especially since they have 2 way zips allowing me to dump heat as necessary. They also silence the down pants and help cut the wind quite well.

The down pants are super light and packable and incredibly warm. They are 120 grams of 800 full power down if I remember right. They can generally be bought on sale for $150 or so. Much warmer than the first light Uncompagrhe pants and cut the wind better due to the welded seams on the black ovis pants.

System is highly versatile. Listed below are actual temps from the season - all sits were a minimum of 5 hours on stand. All sits included the bib pants combo, I just noted what the rest of my lower body layering system was to illustrate how I make it fit the whole season:

30 - 45 degrees: first lite Kiln long johns

20 ‐ 30 degrees: first light furnace long johns

10 ‐ 20 degrees: first light fuse long johns and furnace long johns

Single digits and below zero: furnace, Kiln and fuse

When temps are above 45 i generally don't take the down pants, the bibs and long johns get me through

If you are not familiar with first lite, the fuse layers are 200 grams, 67% wool. The Kiln is 259 grams and the furnace is 350 grams, both layers are 95% wool.

I looked hard at the catalyst set but ended up not buying them due to a lack of information about having a wind stopper.

 

[gcr0003]

BlackOvis Anchor Point 800 Fill Welded Down Pants

BlackOvis Anchor Point 800 Fill Welded Down Pants The BlackOvis Anchor Point Down Pant makes long glassing sessions or sits in cold weather feel like you're sitting on the couch enjoying the game. Incredible warmth to weight ratio at a mere 13.2 ounces (s

www.blackovis.com

 

[Dcomer55]

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I appreciate it. (I’ve used a similar setup before, different brands, but similar concept and approach). A couple of questions:

1. Did you find the combination of down and bibs to be quiet enough to bow hunt in?
2. Did you wear a similar setup on top? (Base later, down insulation layer, and then jacket). If so, was that quiet enough to bow hunt in? If not, why?
3. Instead of doubling up on baselayers, what are your thoughts on going with a single base layer, and a down insulating layer with more than the 4 oz in the black ovis set?
4. Did you find the down to compress too much under your rear when using a saddle that you lost warmth?

I can't recall a single instance where the down pants made any noise once they were on and the bibs were of them. So yes, they were definitely quite enough to bowhunt it. Every hunt I wore them on I was bowhunting.

I will do a similar think on the top when tenps are sustained in the 55 to 40 degree range. I use the kuiu kenia jacket and the firstlite catalyst jacket. I've never had an issue with that. I've tried the same thing with the first lite Uncompagrhe and thlete Northstar and both of those seemed quite enough too. Ended up selling those for non noise relsted reasons though. If its below 40 I use the sitka Fanatic jacket

I think the ideas of having a heavier set of down pants and not doubling up baselayers would definitely work. I'd actually prefer that system. Only ever having one baselayer on minimizes the chance of sweating on the wall in.

I wore this system on a day with Temps on the single digits to just below zero (the feels like temp was -10) in my saddle and I can't recall any issues with my butt getting cold. Granted my feet were blocks of ice, so I was more focused on them. I will say that hunt was about as cold as I feel this system will serve. Any colder and if need heavier insulation.

 

[2Sloe]

BlackOvis Anchor Point 800 Fill Welded Down Pants

BlackOvis Anchor Point 800 Fill Welded Down Pants The BlackOvis Anchor Point Down Pant makes long glassing sessions or sits in cold weather feel like you're sitting on the couch enjoying the game. Incredible warmth to weight ratio at a mere 13.2 ounces (s

www.blackovis.com

I have a similar set top/bottom I bought from Cabelas over 30 years ago that I still use as a mid layer. Hard to beat the heat/weight ratio of down. Love those things.

 

[Dcomer55]

I looked hard at the catalyst set but ended up not buying them due to a lack of information about having a wind stopper.

I hear you on that. Only think flaw that set has IMO. However, they do cut the wind decently well and the down pants I use are made in a way that makes them highly wind resistant, so the combo really cuts the wind.

 

[Kayl]

I picked up the Under Armour Storm Alpine Ops puffy pants this year for under $100 and although I didn't hunt in them this year (bought some First Lite bibs and it didn't get cold enough for both layers) and they are very nice.

 

[Maverick1]

I can't recall a single instance where the down pants made any noise once they were on and the bibs were of them. So yes, they were definitely quite enough to bowhunt it. Every hunt I wore them on I was bowhunting.

I will do a similar think on the top when tenps are sustained in the 55 to 40 degree range. I use the kuiu kenia jacket and the firstlite catalyst jacket. I've never had an issue with that. I've tried the same thing with the first lite Uncompagrhe and thlete Northstar and both of those seemed quite enough too. Ended up selling those for non noise relsted reasons though. If its below 40 I use the sitka Fanatic jacket

I think the ideas of having a heavier set of down pants and not doubling up baselayers would definitely work. I'd actually prefer that system. Only ever having one baselayer on minimizes the chance of sweating on the wall in.

I wore this system on a day with Temps on the single digits to just below zero (the feels like temp was -10) in my saddle and I can't recall any issues with my butt getting cold. Granted my feet were blocks of ice, so I was more focused on them. I will say that hunt was about as cold as I feel this system will serve. Any colder and if need heavier insulation.

Thanks for the reply. My similar setup is First Lite base layers, Feathered Friends Helios pants and jacket, and Sitka stratus bibs and jacket. The Helios is incredibly warm. I did some backyard testing last off season and that setup was warmer than the Fanatic and Day One setups. Didn’t get cold enough here this season for me to use the Helios as an insulating layer.

 

[Dcomer55]

Thanks for the reply. My similar setup is First Lite base layers, Feathered Friends Helios pants and jacket, and Sitka stratus bibs and jacket. The Helios is incredibly warm. I did some backyard testing last off season and that setup was warmer than the Fanatic and Day One setups. Didn’t get cold enough here this season for me to use the Helios as an insulating layer.

I hadn't heard of fethered friends.

Looking at those they have almost the same fill weight as the BO pants I have, but higher fill power. So I would think they'd be warmer and potentially allow you to avoid double up on base layers.

Also, the stratus bibs seem to be considered warmer than the catalyst, so that should help you too.

TBH, I regret not getting the stratus instead of the catalyst. Catalyst works well, stratus may have worked perfectly though.

 

[Maverick1]

I hadn't heard of fethered friends.

Looking at those they have almost the same fill weight as the BO pants I have, but higher fill power. So I would think they'd be warmer and potentially allow you to avoid double up on base layers.

Also, the stratus bibs seem to be considered warmer than the catalyst, so that should help you too.

TBH, I regret not getting the stratus instead of the catalyst. Catalyst works well, stratus may have worked perfectly though.

Yes, the fill weight on the pants is similar at about 4 oz and 900 vs 800 fill as you mentioned; also the FF fill is 900+ all goose down, the black ovis is 800 fill, of which 90% is goose, 10% "feathers". Probably not a significant difference in warmth, though. Comparing jackets, the hooded jacket is quite a bit different: 7.8 oz of fill for the FF, 4.23 oz fill for the black ovis anchor point. I went with the non-hooded version as I found it to be quieter when turning my head.

Also, regarding the Stratus set - the sleeves on the stratus set are tapered quiet a bit, which compresses the down around the wrists when wearing the FF Helios jacket. Not enough to lose a significant amount of warmth there (based on a couple of evenings in the backyard, with 5 degree air temperature), but noticeable. The Helios jacket has like 4" of loft; it's ridiculous. Below is a picture comparing the FF jacket to the SKRE Ptarmigan.

 

[Swampwalker]

Not sure it ever gets co!d enough for Feathered Friends really heavy stuff. The Expedition stuff you could fall asleep in a bomb cyclone.

 

[Dcomer55]

Yes, the fill weight on the pants is similar at about 4 oz and 900 vs 800 fill as you mentioned; also the FF fill is 900+ all goose down, the black ovis is 800 fill, of which 90% is goose, 10% "feathers". Probably not a significant difference in warmth, though. Comparing jackets, the hooded jacket is quite a bit different: 7.8 oz of fill for the FF, 4.23 oz fill for the black ovis anchor point. I went with the non-hooded version as I found it to be quieter when turning my head.

Also, regarding the Stratus set - the sleeves on the stratus set are tapered quiet a bit, which compresses the down around the wrists when wearing the FF Helios jacket. Not enough to lose a significant amount of warmth there (based on a couple of evenings in the backyard, with 5 degree air temperature), but noticeable. The Helios jacket has like 4" of loft; it's ridiculous. Below is a picture comparing the FF jacket to the SKRE Ptarmigan.

View attachment 78881 View attachment 78882View attachment 78883

In my experience in hood on puffy jackets making noise as you turn is the main/worst noise problem. Sounds like your experience lines up. Unless I plan to use the hood I actually tuck it underneath the shell jacket which removes this problem for the most part

I more so wish I had the stratus bibs than the jacket. How tight do the bibs fit? Any compression issues?

Do the FF down pants have velcro tabs at the top to help tighten up the waist?

 

[Maverick1]

In my experience in hood on puffy jackets making noise as you turn is the main/worst noise problem. Sounds like your experience lines up. Unless I plan to use the hood I actually tuck it underneath the shell jacket which removes this problem for the most part

I more so wish I had the stratus bibs than the jacket. How tight do the bibs fit? Any compression issues?

Do the FF down pants have velcro tabs at the top to help tighten up the waist?

The FF Helios down pants to not have velcro tabs at the top for waist adjustment. Their approach to waist adjustment is two buttons, one on each side, that maybe give an extra half-inch to inch per side. (I'd have to check to be sure.) Their waistband is entirely elastic, which is nice for accommodating any Thanksgiving dinner bulges. They don't have a lot of adjustment, though.

Doing it over, I would consider giving Ben a call at GooseFeet gear. It's going to cost more than the FF, though, and end up more expensive than the Black Ovis pants, for sure, but be more specific to an individual's measurements.

The Stratus bibs fit fine, good enough. No compression issues with the down like the sleeves on the jacket. They are a nice "cut", tapered the right amount in the right spots.

I like the Stratus set, they are quite versatile, with the right base and insultation layers they can go from below freezing to the lower 60's. (Above 60 degrees they become a bit much). The tapered sleeves on the jacket are the only thing I don't care for. Actually, just the other day I was at Scheels and looking at their Antler River line (bibs, jacket, vest, pants). It is remarkably similar to the Sitka Stratus set at a lower price point. ($140 for jacket, $140 for bibs, $130 for pants, $110 for vest; compared to $360, $360, $310, $240 for similar Sitka items). The Antler River series is definitely not as "tailored" as the Sitka items, though. This is nice, as the jacket sleeves are maybe an inch (?) or so bigger around at the wrists. The tradeoff is the bibs are more of a straight-wall "tube" than the Stratus bibs. Almost makes one look homely and frumpy! (There are differences in the pockets on the bibs, the Antler River does not have some of the features of the Stratus - such as cargo pockets on the front of the thighs, etc.) The outer material is very similar, though - a microfleece shell with a wind blocking membrane. See pictures below for the fit - these are reasonably close to how they fit in the store when comparing the two sets.

 

[raisins]

BlackOvis Anchor Point 800 Fill Welded Down Pants

BlackOvis Anchor Point 800 Fill Welded Down Pants The BlackOvis Anchor Point Down Pant makes long glassing sessions or sits in cold weather feel like you're sitting on the couch enjoying the game. Incredible warmth to weight ratio at a mere 13.2 ounces (s

www.blackovis.com

anyone with a few seasons on these?

the sonic weld in place of stitching makes me a little hesitant

 

[Dcomer55]

anyone with a few seasons on these?

the sonic weld in place of stitching makes me a little hesitant

I used them this season.

No issues so far.

 

[Weldabeast]

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...itary-surplus-quilted-bib-pants-new?a=2184735

Pass thru pockets and buttons up the leg

 

[Weldabeast]

Finally selling some with zippers on the legs.... https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...ary-surplus-pants-liners-3-pack-new?a=1545294