Lone Wolf Hand Climber Failure ... It wasn’t pretty

[muzzypower]

Ive had the lwhc collapse inward multiple times when i do the tippy toe thing when climbing. One really has to keep weight away from the tree. I moved my foot strap all the way out and it helps keep my foot weight away from tree. It is unnerving

 

[Weldabeast]

Can you weld aluminum tubing to cast aluminum to reinforce the LWHC at key points?

Sure....just be sure to use somebody who knows what they doing with correct equipment

 

[rhagenw]

Sure....just be sure to use somebody who knows what they doing with correct equipment

I thought you can only braze cast materials?

 

[Weldabeast]

I thought you can only braze cast materials?

Negative ghost rider

 

[ImThere]

By not using it to stand on as a platform and by staying away from small diameter trees that put those arms at too steep an angle.

I still have mine and can say the seat is quite a bit thinner and flimsier than the base portion is. I’ve heard quite a few stories of these failing now including my own experience.

But we are all adults here so it’s on you if you want to use it as a platform i think it’s a good thing to get these failures out there though so people can make a calculated risk knowing failure of the seat is quite possible, perhaps even probable?

I am glad we are talking about it. I think we need to break down every failure as we are this one. It makes the saddle hunting community stronger and safer as a group.

We are talking about climbing in this situation. Don’t the hand climber hold your weight while your pulling up the bottom section?

I have alway held that if I use a hand climber I will use my summit climbing stand and forgo the saddle. Summits are quite comfy.


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[Adrena123]

I am glad we are talking about it. I think we need to break down every failure as we are this one. It makes the saddle hunting community stronger and safer as a group.

We are talking about climbing in this situation. Don’t the hand climber hold your weight while your pulling up the bottom section?

I have alway held that if I use a hand climber I will use my summit climbing stand and forgo the saddle. Summits are quite comfy.


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I really like and agree with what you said about the HC top holding all your weight when using it as the climbing stand combo. That is why it is rated at 350lbs like the bottom platform. I think some people forget that.

As far as using a summit vs the 4lb HC and my KITE just because the tree is limbless, not a chance. To me saddle hunting is not about limbed or limbless trees, it's about hunting from a saddle with it's many advantages. Which includes walking 45 minutes back on public with the slim profile and light weight through thick cover etc...But I do agree a summit climber is a comfortable tree chair.

 

[raisins]

I really like and agree with what you said about the HC top holding all your weight when using it as the climbing stand combo. That is why it is rated at 350lbs like the bottom platform. I think some people forget that.

As far as using a summit vs the 4lb HC and my KITE just because the tree is limbless, not a chance. To me saddle hunting is not about limbed or limbless trees, it's about hunting from a saddle with it's many advantages. Which includes walking 45 minutes back on public with the slim profile and light weight through thick cover etc...But I do agree a summit climber is a comfortable tree chair.

At least for hang ons, to be rated for 300 lbs....the platform must hold 900 lbs and the seat must hold 450 lbs. They are both rated the same, but TMA applies different criteria depending up which part of the stand is being addressed. This might be how the weight is distributed, but likely that when used as designed if a seat fails then you are still standing on the platform...so the seat is less important. Using the seat as a platform throws that out the window.

 

[mtsrunner]

Your scenario, and by the way I’m glad that you are ok, is what got me to start looking at rappelling down.
By using my rappel rope as the tether during the climbing portion and by being connected to the rope with a Mad Rock Safeguard, I can rappel down at any point during the climb. If a stick kicks out, step breaks, or whatever else could happen, I simply drop my rappel rope, grab the lever and breaking end and I’m headed down.

Same thing here. I have gone back and forth on whether it is worth it to carry the extra bulk of a rappel rope. It is definitely worth it

 

[Adrena123]

At least for hang ons, to be rated for 300 lbs....the platform must hold 900 lbs and the seat must hold 450 lbs. They are both rated the same, but TMA applies different criteria depending up which part of the stand is being addressed. This might be how the weight is distributed, but likely that when used as designed if a seat fails then you are still standing on the platform...so the seat is less important. Using the seat as a platform throws that out the window.

I hear what you are saying but like @ImThere said
If your climbing with the lone wolf climber combo, your forearms are on the seat top and your full weight (including the foot platform) is being supported by the top as you raise your feet up with the platform. That is all your weight

 

[raisins]

I hear what you are saying but like @ImThere said
If your climbing with the lone wolf climber combo, your forearms are on the seat top and your full weight (including the foot platform) is being supported by the top as you raise your feet up with the platform. That is all your weight

Well, we don't know how they are tested and what the criteria are until we do. What makes sense to us might not matter here. The seat is more thinly built and seems to break. The fact that hang on seats are differently rated for the same pounds may or may not be important. I'm mostly rejecting the idea that "they are both rated for X pounds therefore they are of the same strength/tested the same". Lastly, the weight distribution matters here. Climbing with it with your arms and standing/leaning on it might be very different. I agree that they should be able to take your weight while standing, but some don't. So, at what pounds are they tested and how are the seat tested?

 

[Adrena123]

Well, we don't know how they are tested and what the criteria are until we do. What makes sense to us might not matter here. The seat is more thinly built and seems to break. The fact that hang on seats are differently rated for the same pounds may or may not be important. I'm mostly rejecting the idea that "they are both rated for X pounds therefore they are of the same strength/tested the same". Lastly, the weight distribution matters here. Climbing with it with your arms and standing/leaning on it might be very different. I agree that they should be able to take your weight while standing, but some don't. So, at what pounds are they tested and how are the seat tested?

Dude I honestly have no idea.I just use it all the time like many other people without issues. We have all seen a predator break and a perch snap. It sucks,it happens..The LWHC modded or not is DIY use at own risk....I did reach out to a manufacturer about making a production model, so we shall see.

 

[anonesumcane]

Your scenario, and by the way I’m glad that you are ok, is what got me to start looking at rappelling down.
By using my rappel rope as the tether during the climbing portion and by being connected to the rope with a Mad Rock Safeguard, I can rappel down at any point during the climb. If a stick kicks out, step breaks, or whatever else could happen, I simply drop my rappel rope, grab the lever and breaking end and I’m headed down.

not a bad idea. Ive went over the scenario 100 times since it happened. Im a strong guy the hardest part for me was I could not get enough leverage to loosen the ropeman. I was doing pull ups but it was so high there was no way. the lineman rope kept me close to the tree. i was so unnerved at this point I thought about using it as an aider but It made me feel secure . The leg straps were digging in so I figured if I used the rope to secure me closely to Tree but let me lean and free my hands I could get the mantis loosened. It worked I leaned into tree and used my knees as leverage ... I will carry a screw in step and a strap as a back up from now on ... the rope is a good idea . As I mentioned earlier I actually had the tethrd daisy chain in my predator pack on my back . I was a little panicked and did not even think about it until another member mentioned it

 

[DMTJAGER]

Ok I guess as a complete saddle hunting novice I all ask the obvious.

Can a buch of the most seasoned hunting saddle users please get together pool your thoughts and come up with a sticky listing multiple self rescue options geared towards both seasoned saddle user but especially complete novices like me about to take the plunge into saddle hunting.
They would need to be very detailed listing all the equipment one would need and where to buy it.

I never ever gave a moments thought about having to self rescue from a saddle due to having a climbing stick fail or a platform fail as I will also likely be using one as well.
Been hunting out of hand on treestands for 35 years and mostly use screw in tree steps and never had either my pin-on stands or a screw in step fail me in any way. But now I am wanting to use 32" LWCS as they go up faster at 3 steps at a time VS screw in steps and require much less effort than screw in steps, and increasingly my land owners are madating no screw in steps.
I have been using a FBH for over 20 years now and recently switched to a RCH while stand hunting and about 5-6 years ago included a safety rope at all my stands.

To be frank one of the most attractive and strongest motivations for me giving saddle hunting a try is the fact that it is not only a safer method of hunting from a tree than hang on stands it is in theory the safest way to hunt out of a tree period and it is far simpler as it eliminates the need for a safety harness and a safety rope placed at every stand location, a potentially very expensive must have safety item if hunting from a traditional stand.

I have had two stand instances that had immense affect on me. The first one convinced me to NEVER hunt with out a FBH EVER again, the second swore me off climbing stands forever. I had bought along with four of my friends Summit Viper II climbing stands. We got together on my friends acreage he lives on and literally spent an entire day learning the proper way to use climbing stands. Summit provided an excellent DVD with every stand and I watched mine 10x+ before I ever tried my stand.

I then went to my local state public hunting grounds 3 more times and practiced on all sizes of trees I could find. I very quickly discovered shag bark hickory trees were at least for me a no-go due to excessive noise and difficulty climbing them, especially climbing down. By the time bow hunting season rolled around I had practiced climbed and at least 30-40 trees taking care to climb trees of the smallest in diameter allowed to the largest allowed. I felt I was well prepared and ready to hunt from my climber.

Did about 5 or 6 climbs and hunts with absolutely zero issues other than trying to find pencil strate trees with either no limbs or very small limbs. Then I did a evening hunt in a large black walnut after what my land owner told me was one of the wettest weeks in november in that part of the states history. I had zero issues climbing up the tree to about 25-30 feet. But did notice how wet and slippery the bark seamed. When it came time to climb down at first my foot rest wouldn't bit into the tree and simply slid down which was very very startling. At first I thought I must be doing something wrong. Then I tried again and again with as much care as I could but the results were the same stand wasn't biting just sliding. Several times I went down so low I had great difficulty getting back up to be able to sit on the seat section of the stand.

Finally I started descending in as short of distances as I could and it worked, but I was still slipping some, my biggest problem was the fear if the stand slipped to far I would get stuck in the seat portion and wouldn't be able to bring the foot rest back up stranding me in the tree with no way down and this was before cell phones and I was hurting all alone.

Once I was on the ground I decided then and there never again to use a climbing stand as I would never trust one again. Now I do not know if the bark being saturated by the heavy rains was the cause for my slipping problems or not, but that was the first and only truly wet tree I had ever climbed with the climber. I was surprised beyond measure as I felt Summit makes the best climbing stand out there and still does. None of my friends have ever experienced a similar problem but they are all at least 90-100lbs lighter than I and ( I weighed about 255lbs at that time) none can ever recall climbing a tree who's bark had been essentially saturated by heavy rains.

So I am looking to try saddle hunting as I feel it offers the simplest and safest method to hunt from a tree. I hope I can learn from the saddle experts here a equally simple means to self rescue so I can saddle hunt with complete confidence.
I have no intentions of using SRT, DRT climbing methods so any self rescue system will need to reflect that.

 

[mtsrunner]

Ok I guess as a complete saddle hunting novice I all ask the obvious.

Can a buch of the most seasoned hunting saddle users please get together pool your thoughts and come up with a sticky listing multiple self rescue options geared towards both seasoned saddle user but especially complete novices like me about to take the plunge into saddle hunting.
They would need to be very detailed listing all the equipment one would need and where to buy it.

I never ever gave a moments thought about having to self rescue from a saddle due to having a climbing stick fail or a platform fail as I will also likely be using one as well.
Been hunting out of hand on treestands for 35 years and mostly use screw in tree steps and never had either my pin-on stands or a screw in step fail me in any way. But now I am wanting to use 32" LWCS as they go up faster at 3 steps at a time VS screw in steps and require much less effort than screw in steps, and increasingly my land owners are madating no screw in steps.
I have been using a FBH for over 20 years now and recently switched to a RCH while stand hunting and about 5-6 years ago included a safety rope at all my stands.

To be frank one of the most attractive and strongest motivations for me giving saddle hunting a try is the fact that it is not only a safer method of hunting from a tree than hang on stands it is in theory the safest way to hunt out of a tree period and it is far simpler as it eliminates the need for a safety harness and a safety rope placed at every stand location, a potentially very expensive must have safety item if hunting from a traditional stand.

I have had two stand instances that had immense affect on me. The first one convinced me to NEVER hunt with out a FBH EVER again, the second swore me off climbing stands forever. I had bought along with four of my friends Summit Viper II climbing stands. We got together on my friends acreage he lives on and literally spent an entire day learning the proper way to use climbing stands. Summit provided an excellent DVD with every stand and I watched mine 10x+ before I ever tried my stand.

I then went to my local state public hunting grounds 3 more times and practiced on all sizes of trees I could find. I very quickly discovered shag bark hickory trees were at least for me a no-go due to excessive noise and difficulty climbing them, especially climbing down. By the time bow hunting season rolled around I had practiced climbed and at least 30-40 trees taking care to climb trees of the smallest in diameter allowed to the largest allowed. I felt I was well prepared and ready to hunt from my climber.

Did about 5 or 6 climbs and hunts with absolutely zero issues other than trying to find pencil strate trees with either no limbs or very small limbs. Then I did a evening hunt in a large black walnut after what my land owner told me was one of the wettest weeks in november in that part of the states history. I had zero issues climbing up the tree to about 25-30 feet. But did notice how wet and slippery the bark seamed. When it came time to climb down at first my foot rest wouldn't bit into the tree and simply slid down which was very very startling. At first I thought I must be doing something wrong. Then I tried again and again with as much care as I could but the results were the same stand wasn't biting just sliding. Several times I went down so low I had great difficulty getting back up to be able to sit on the seat section of the stand.

Finally I started descending in as short of distances as I could and it worked, but I was still slipping some, my biggest problem was the fear if the stand slipped to far I would get stuck in the seat portion and wouldn't be able to bring the foot rest back up stranding me in the tree with no way down and this was before cell phones and I was hurting all alone.

Once I was on the ground I decided then and there never again to use a climbing stand as I would never trust one again. Now I do not know if the bark being saturated by the heavy rains was the cause for my slipping problems or not, but that was the first and only truly wet tree I had ever climbed with the climber. I was surprised beyond measure as I felt Summit makes the best climbing stand out there and still does. None of my friends have ever experienced a similar problem but they are all at least 90-100lbs lighter than I and ( I weighed about 255lbs at that time) none can ever recall climbing a tree who's bark had been essentially saturated by heavy rains.

So I am looking to try saddle hunting as I feel it offers the simplest and safest method to hunt from a tree. I hope I can learn from the saddle experts here a equally simple means to self rescue so I can saddle hunt with complete confidence.
I have no intentions of using SRT, DRT climbing methods so any self rescue system will need to reflect that.

It’s good to think about all of this before it becomes an issue. I will address the climbing stand issue. If you have a two piece climber, just tether the two pieces together so that the bottom piece can never drop farther than you can reach to recover. Most of use who use the Lone Wolf Hand Climber as a foot climber/platform have it physically tethered to our saddle in some manner. This is not foolproof, as it can still be difficult to get it back up to your feet if it slides down the tree.

In my opinion, it is absolutely worth the weight and bulk to ALWAYS have an emergency rappel option readily available. There is a ton of information available on here about rapelling. If you aren’t ready to make that move, at least have screw in step or Amsteel daisy chain with a carabiner in a place that you can quickly and easily reach in case you get in a sticky situation. Being able to take the pressure off and re-situate yourself could save your life.

 

[neonomad]

To be frank one of the most attractive and strongest motivations for me giving saddle hunting a try is the fact that it is not only a safer method of hunting from a tree than hang on stands it is in theory the safest way to hunt out of a tree period and it is far simpler as it eliminates the need for a safety harness and a safety rope placed at every stand location, a potentially very expensive must have safety item if hunting from a traditional stand.

So I am looking to try saddle hunting as I feel it offers the simplest and safest method to hunt from a tree. I hope I can learn from the saddle experts here a equally simple means to self rescue so I can saddle hunt with complete confidence.

The hype cycle curve is a lot like any learning curve, and two years in I think I’m about 2/3 of the way up the slope of enlightenment in regards to safety. The curve slammed down for me when I first realized the flaws in my stick climbing methods, and the fact that saddlehunting has features where there is only a single layer of safety protection. But IMO the blanket statement that saddle hunting is inherently safer is the peak of that hype curve. Not every one agrees with this, but that’s my conclusion.

 

[bj139]

The hype cycle curve is a lot like any learning curve, and two years in I think I’m about 2/3 of the way up the slope of enlightenment in regards to safety. The curve slammed down for me when I first realized the flaws in my stick climbing methods, and the fact that saddlehunting has features where there is only a single layer of safety protection. But IMO the blanket statement that saddle hunting is inherently safer is the peak of that hype curve. Not every one agrees with this, but that’s my conclusion.

I agree. There are many ways to get stuck up a tree. I climb SRT and have had no problems with a standard setup although I got stuck once when I tried to use an ATC in guide mode in place of the belay device.

 

[neonomad]

I agree. There are many ways to get stuck up a tree. I climb SRT and have had no problems with a standard setup although I got stuck once when I tried to use an ATC in guide mode in place of the belay device.

For decades I realize now I had no reliable emergency decent plan. The ROS I’m now using with the JX3, which is in my dump pouch, is the plan if I drop my stick... set up ROS, lineman in and step to those, insert figure eight to rope, rappel down.

 

[DMTJAGER]

For decades I realize now I had no reliable emergency decent plan. The ROS I’m now using with the JX3, which is in my dump pouch, is the plan if I drop my stick... set up ROS, lineman in and step to those, insert figure eight to rope, rappel down.

Like ReplyPlease as to eplane what is this ROS you speak of?

 

[raisins]

not a bad idea. Ive went over the scenario 100 times since it happened. Im a strong guy the hardest part for me was I could not get enough leverage to loosen the ropeman. I was doing pull ups but it was so high there was no way. the lineman rope kept me close to the tree. i was so unnerved at this point I thought about using it as an aider but It made me feel secure . The leg straps were digging in so I figured if I used the rope to secure me closely to Tree but let me lean and free my hands I could get the mantis loosened. It worked I leaned into tree and used my knees as leverage ... I will carry a screw in step and a strap as a back up from now on ... the rope is a good idea . As I mentioned earlier I actually had the tethrd daisy chain in my predator pack on my back . I was a little panicked and did not even think about it until another member mentioned it

Instead of a screw in step, perhaps consider a strap on step (tree hopper or squirrel step) with a strap/buckle or other attachment method. These are easier to get on the tree and will work well to lift your weight (I can hardly stand screw in steps when standing on the ground, I can't imagine dealing with one in an emergency where the angles might not be good for putting one in the tree, also it is a pain to get screw in steps into really hard wood trees). Also, you can loosen and slide them down to descend (using tether like top of climber and step like bottom of climber). Also, no sharp points in your pants or pack. Lastly, you have an additional strap or daisy chain etc with you that might be useful (you can use the strap as a foot hold also).

If you are somewhere where it gets cold and you are hunting below 30 F, I would consider some Hot Hands in your pack. With gloves on that are thin enough to let me work, my fingers go numb after 5 or 10 minutes. I usually keep a hot hands in my glove while climbing with steps or sticks and pull my fingers in once in a while to heat up. I can't imagine really being stuck and having numb hands that have gone sloppy from the cold.

 

[swampdonkey]

We are talking about climbing in this situation. Don’t the hand climber hold your weight while your pulling up the bottom section?
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This is true but ask yourself this. While there have been many documented failures of the LWHC seat failing how many times have you heard of the platform section failing? There may be but i personally haven’t heard of a single one.

When my LWHC seat failed 7 years ago even i wasn’t using it for saddle hunting i was just using it as a climbing stand as it was intended to be used.

That being said, it’s my opinion it’s the added stress of standing on them for hours at a time, shifting your weight, standing on the edges, etc is what is shortening their life and causing failures. When i climb with one as a climber i just lean into it with my forearms on it and it’s just for a moment.

When i saddle hunt off a platform i spend a fair amount of time applying side pressure or putting my weight all the way on the outer edge as opposed to just standing on the entire platform with my feet squarely planted on the platform as your hinder would be while sitting on it. In fact, i bet i spend most of my time way out on the edge of my Mission platform as opposed to actually standing on it.

I mean, they are failing quite a bit so in the end i am not sure it really matter as to why that may be. I’m certain if you were to ask Lone Wolf they certainly wouldn’t endorse using the seat as a platform.

So bottom line, if you use one this way have a solid plan for self rescue should it fail and plan and practice as if you expect it will at some point. That way it doesn’t catch you by surprise and cause you to panic if and when it does.

We all assume a fair amount of risk every time we hunt i just hope all of us get to go home to our families at the end of the day.