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Madrock Safeguard

Ballshooter said:
I have ditched all mechanical devices and am using hitches the Brocky 113 , sticht hitch or the Calligraphy hitch.
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Knots work but I would always worry I went under instead of over tying ropes. Many look like they would be easy to get something wrong. I even see people arguing about the proper way of making the same knot.
 
1canvas said:
Knots work but I would always worry I went under instead of over tying ropes. Many look like they would be easy to get something wrong. I even see people arguing about the proper way of making the same knot.
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Thats why you test them at ground level that goes with anything even mechanical devices.
 
1canvas said:
Knots work but I would always worry I went under instead of over tying ropes. Many look like they would be easy to get something wrong. I even see people arguing about the proper way of making the same knot.
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I see that concern, I feel the same way about a mechanical device that I can’t really vet, and just need to trust the manufacturer it will always work as advertised.

In general for a lot of knots you can tie them once maybe twice a season at home, in good light, with video instructions in front of you. And then you’ve got time to inspect and test as a final proof of the work. I’d see no reason why anyone would be regularly tying hitches in woods for a tether or linesman’s belt.
 
A madrock uses the weight applied to it to pinch the rope (friction), it's not magic or complicated. would I solely rely on it climbing a 300ft rock wall where there was a real possibility of falling 20ft off anchor? no. is it safe for climbing a tree and sitting stationary with a rappel rope 30ft off the ground? for me it is. what people are doing to get it to slip, lord only knows, but if you are telling me teaching people that apparently are scared to death of heights to tie 200 variations of knots is best practice over using a simple mechanical device that does the SAME THING as these friction hitches is beyond me. that's how overweight people that cannot lift their body weight die 6ft off the ground. personally I don't care what you use, what gripes me is getting people scared of a climbing rated device over a knot system that works great only if they tie it right in the dark for the fifth time in their life. and for those that hang on a tether and not a rappel rope with a belay? at some point 1 (or a few) of you are gonna need for some reason to get out of that tree you are in real quick. when that time comes you realizing you got 20 seconds to figure out a 1 minute problem, don't worry, a 25ft fall won't kill you, (but the walk out will probably suck) good luck, be safe, and keep it simple
 
Yes, seeing some of those knots look like it could be a big variable in safety.
Actually for me I will never find myself over 15’, after that the shot angles suck for up close shots in the heavy cover I hunt.
I disagree on the 25’ won’t kill you statement, that’s mighty high. Then if you add to that with a saddle you will likely be leaning backwards would add to the risk of a broken neck or spine.
 
1canvas said:
Thanks. It seems like a better option than a Ropeman for a tether.
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Two different devices with different applications. A madrock is a belay device designed to feed rope through it while a Ropeman is an ascender and positioning device. If you're not repelling down, it makes no sense to use a madrock. I use a Kong duck, same type of device as a ropeman, for my linemans rope and a madrock for my climbing, hunting and rappelling down.
 
colin.704 said:
A madrock uses the weight applied to it to pinch the rope (friction), it's not magic or complicated. would I solely rely on it climbing a 300ft rock wall where there was a real possibility of falling 20ft off anchor? no. is it safe for climbing a tree and sitting stationary with a rappel rope 30ft off the ground? for me it is. what people are doing to get it to slip, lord only knows, but if you are telling me teaching people that apparently are scared to death of heights to tie 200 variations of knots is best practice over using a simple mechanical device that does the SAME THING as these friction hitches is beyond me. that's how overweight people that cannot lift their body weight die 6ft off the ground. personally I don't care what you use, what gripes me is getting people scared of a climbing rated device over a knot system that works great only if they tie it right in the dark for the fifth time in their life. and for those that hang on a tether and not a rappel rope with a belay? at some point 1 (or a few) of you are gonna need for some reason to get out of that tree you are in real quick. when that time comes you realizing you got 20 seconds to figure out a 1 minute problem, don't worry, a 25ft fall won't kill you, (but the walk out will probably suck) good luck, be safe, and keep it simple
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I don't know if I could agree with your post anymore. I can't fathom why anyone would use a plethora of knots, etc to climb a tree and hunt. To me, it introduces more risk than its worth. Sure, if done right, it absolutely is the safest and most secure. But thats taking into account that you're doing it right, 100% of the time. In the cold, in the dark, etc. I feel too many things could go wrong if you're doing this over and over during the course of a season. I know I wouldn't trust myself to do it thats for sure. A device like the madrock, you simply have to place your rope in the device, from left, under and out the right side... done. I can do this with my eyes closed with zero issues.

I will say the slippage issues we've seen with the madrock, I believe aren't user error. I haven't had it happen in three years now, but I have heard from a very reputable one sticker, that its not exactly an unusual thing. The device will eventually wear enough that it will slip. It depends on how many rappels you have on it. Its thousands btw, before it may be time to replace. Think of it as a replaceable item. But people also need to realize and be realistic. Its not going to let go and let you plummet to your death. lol. It will start to creep a bit when yo have your full weight on it. You see that, its time to get a new one. Those claiming new madrocks are slipping are either one, not being truthful and they bought it off someone else used, two, not using the correct diameter rope, or three, the rope they're using has an issue. Very very rarely is this the devices fault.
 
muzzyman88 said:
Two different devices with different applications. A madrock is a belay device designed to feed rope through it while a Ropeman is an ascender and positioning device. If you're not repelling down, it makes no sense to use a madrock. I use a Kong duck, same type of device as a ropeman, for my linemans rope and a madrock for my climbing, hunting and rappelling down.
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I was kind of thinking of the Madrock on a long tether ( I also use a tether when climbing ) to be able to repel down if needed whether on my sticks or a platform. I don’t go much over 15’.
 
1canvas said:
I was kind of thinking of the Madrock on a long tether ( I also use a tether when climbing ) to be able to repel down if needed whether on my sticks or a platform. I don’t go much over 15’.
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I one stick climb and use my rappel rope to climb, hunt from and get down. I never transfer to a different rope. The way I look at it is that this give me a safe, easy way to the ground at all times if there was a "situation" and also, there is zero chance of me making a mistake at height by having to transfer off one rope to another to come down. At the base of the tree, when setting up, I put my rope around the tree, hook up my madrock and clip into my bridge before I climb. If I put weight on it, and go on my butt because I didn't do something correctly (really hard to screw this process up btw), all thats hurt is my pride... lol.

Just my opinion but I feel like too many guys over complicate all of this and that over complication can lead to mishaps. Keep it all as simple and easy to do as possible!
 
BowhunterXC said:
No! I quit using mine, for that very reason. :rolleyes:

I used mine to hold me in place, while hunting from my platform, until last fall, when I noticed it creeping an inch or two. That creeping or slippage isn't acceptable....period. If I were hanging off to the side and attempting to take a shot when it started slipping, that could cause me to miss out on the shot opportunity or worse....cause me to lose my footing and have an accident of some sort. o_O

I use a Petroacan Hitch for ascending and switch over to a carabiner with a Munter or Super Munter for rappelling. Both are very simple to use, are way less expensive and are 100% reliable. :cool:
This is a 5 wrap Petroacan Hitch (tied the opposite of the Michoacan Hitch), using a 23" eye to eye prusik cord, from Ape Canyon Outfitters.
View attachment 116132

This is the Munter Hitch with a large pear-shaped Petzl Attache carabiner. The larger size and shape handles extra wraps easier and has a larger surface area for less wear on the rope. ;)
View attachment 116135
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Something to consider......the hitch u hang and hunt off can also be the backup to the munter. Super easy and much safer
 
Weldabeast said:
Something to consider......the hitch u hang and hunt off can also be the backup to the munter. Super easy and much safer
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Thank you and that's very true! :)

Actually, I tend to use a Super Munter (which just an extra wrap of rope, around the carabiner) and I actually have to feed rope to it to rappel. However, it makes for a nice and slow rappel. ;) When I'm removing my platform I just tie a half-hitch to hold me in place until I'm done removing my platform and continue on down with my rappel.
JRB 22.jpg
 
Ballshooter said:
Yes Sir I have been using it this off season and I must say it is very nice. Tends awesome, holds exceptionally and easy to break under load.
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That's so exciting! Those are all the traits it was designed to have and I'm glad to be hearing from a lot of actual climbers using it. I want at least one of my hitches to go mainstream. That's always been a goal of mine. Not easy to penetrate the "greats," though.
 
BowhunterXC said:
No! I quit using mine, for that very reason. :rolleyes:

I used mine to hold me in place, while hunting from my platform, until last fall, when I noticed it creeping an inch or two. That creeping or slippage isn't acceptable....period. If I were hanging off to the side and attempting to take a shot when it started slipping, that could cause me to miss out on the shot opportunity or worse....cause me to lose my footing and have an accident of some sort. o_O

I use a Petroacan Hitch for ascending and switch over to a carabiner with a Munter or Super Munter for rappelling. Both are very simple to use, are way less expensive and are 100% reliable. :cool:
This is a 5 wrap Petroacan Hitch (tied the opposite of the Michoacan Hitch), using a 23" eye to eye prusik cord, from Ape Canyon Outfitters.
View attachment 116132

This is the Munter Hitch with a large pear-shaped Petzl Attache carabiner. The larger size and shape handles extra wraps easier and has a larger surface area for less wear on the rope. ;)
View attachment 116135
Click to expand...
I wonder about the rope used and its effects. Many swear by them, some say they creep. I just wonder if the different ropes or different size ropes can be the variables in responses here and other places. Some even suggested they wear out over time.
 
1canvas said:
I wonder about the rope used and its effects. Many swear by them, some say they creep. I just wonder if the different ropes or different size ropes can be the variables in responses here and other places. Some even suggested they wear out over time.
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I was in my second year of usage and using 9mm rope, which is within the standard ranges for suggested rope sizes.
 
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